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On May 29 2014 05:56 Chromatically wrote:
mderg what I can absolutely not understand is how you haven't done anything all day except defend jabber. You have not pushed any other target at all. What are you doing? A townie who wants a successful lynch would be pushing who they think is scum, not doing nothing at all except for defending someone.
The thing is that it´s difficult to make cases, if everyone does the same. It´s not like I have completely ignored others but sadly there´s limited information to go on.
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@fuba: anything about Meapak or gobbledydook? I feel like they´ve been kinda ignored for some time.
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On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum. Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote:On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP You are basically copying what sqrt said about Palmar and not really saying anything about your town reads. I feel sorry for having tried to defend you, you have made no useful contributions all day. All you did is flail around like a magikarp out of water screaming im a noob. Which makes me highly suspect if you aren't flailing on purpose. If jabber flips scum, this quote would make me think gobble is likely town. This was kind of jabber's last stand, and I don't think the scumteam would shoot down their ally like that. Unless it was some kind of elaborate plan to give gobble some slight towncred after the flip, but that's kinda out there. I do have to say that I don't entirely understand what that last sentence means. As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD
I kinda disagree with this. I think that even though the fact that he probably didn´t read the case properly, not knowing jabber was mafia last game is leaning more towards town than scum. But I agree that his reason for voting jabber was unconvincing.
I´m not sure, if shooting down their ally is that unrealistic. Jabber was already very likely to be lynched. So why not deal the final blows to gain credibility?
I think gobbledydook´s play was strange so far. I think he´s been under the radar and we should have some conversation with him. That´s also the reason for bringing his name up in this phase of the game.
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Now on to Meapak. I think he might be the scum we´re looking for.
On May 28 2014 04:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I actually like 27NB's original post of jwz which is while I'll be voting for him. Let's talk about who else is scum aside from jwz, at the moment I'm looking a harurh because of his soft defense on jwz. mderg? Being pretty open with his defense, and while I think he's wrong, he's coming at it from a townie angle. Harurh on the other hand votes for jwz but then makes side comments in his favor. Thoughts?
Fuba's another possibility but right now I believe his jwz progression.
I don´t agree with his reasoning to vote for jabber but that´s not scummy in itself. What I really don´t like is the part about HaruRH. He assumes jabber is scum but in that case I think it´s way more likely for scum to completely bus him and hide under all the other votes on him. He also never really makes a follow up to this.
On May 28 2014 07:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 07:42 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
My point is this: Huge bandwagons always seem to be town bandwagons.
(cruisette mislynch in liii, cav mislynch in liv, sweetfrost mislynch and yellow suspection in lv, OdinofPergo in golden sun)
Jwz is my top scum read so far.
I was considering pushing a palmar lynch because he's my second scum read, and huge bandwagons always seem to be wrong. I could see myself convinced of a Palmar lynch, however let's not get too far ahead our ourselves. imo jwz is still the best choice and his lack of serious defense is only solidifying that.
I think it would have been helpful to give reasons why he could be convinced of a Palmar lynch. To me it seems like searching for someone to sheep the lynch from.
The part about sqrt is not actually something I see as scummy because it pushes for better information.
I like how he defends me for my jabber defense.
On May 29 2014 04:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hmm I'm a bit suspect of people trying to develop a second wagon at the same time as they're voting JWZ. Either say you've changed your mind about jwz and explain why or start developing reads for tomorrow.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg
Thought there was a voting thread lol
This part of his play seems good to me. This feels like he´s being critical about the ongoings and is trying to solve the game.
So I liked how he defended me and was critically questioning a second bandwagon. But I didn´t like how he pushed HaruRH without following up at all. I also don´t like how he was basically just waiting for someone to make a case on Palmar.
Overall I´m not convinced by his play. Everything I liked about his play posts about things surrounding the jabber lynch. He´s made some weird pushes without proper follow up which is what makes me think he might be scum.
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh
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On May 29 2014 10:55 Chromatically wrote:
So mderg, why did you wait until the few hours before lynch to choose someone to "push"? Wouldn't it have made a bit more sense to post your case on MZ just a little earlier, when he actually had a chance to be lynched? You did not care one bit about the lynch today.
I don´t even think MZ had a real chance to be lynched but I agree that it was bad to not make my case against him earlier. The reason for that was that I only started filter diving him when some people wanted to have a second wagon. So I didn´t have my case ready early enough.
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On May 30 2014 01:45 Amiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 09:52 Blazinghand wrote:Vote count: jabberwockzerg (11) - 27ninjabunnies, HaruRH, fuba, Palmar, fuba, slOosh, Alakaslam, sqrtofneg1, Chromatically, sqrtofneg1, gobbledydook, Meapak_Ziphh, Amiko, sqrtofneg1fuba (1) - sqrtofneg1 Meapak_Ziphh (2) - mderg, jabberwockzerg 27ninjabunnies (0) - PalmarPalmar(0) - sqrtofneg1, sqrtofneg1 Here's some vote thoughts. These are ignoring comments in game and just seeing if the votes get me anything. - At least one mafia voted on jabberwockzerg (because there are 3 mafia, but only two votes other than jabberwockzerg's that are on anyone else). - I don't clear sqrt/mderg for not voting on jabber since the other wagons came late enough I don't feel they were viable. There are other things that weigh for/against them which I can discuss later. - It'd be pretty crazy if the scumteam was 27ninjabunnies/HaruRH/fuba since they voted jabber very early, before most players had commented on the case or taken a stance. At that time I feel the case wasn't super strong, so I feel like that'd be an over-commitment by scum. I don't see too much else I can say here... if anyone else has thoughts on the votes I'd appreciate hearing them.
I agree with this.
The first thought is self-explanatory but I don´t think it even needs to be mentioned.
The second thought is logical. Even if there was another wagon, it wouldn´t clear anyone based on voting alone.
I think that scumteam would be very unlikely. Especially bunnies seemed townie with her overall thread presence.
I don´t think there´s much we can get out of the votes because they weren´t really spread out.
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On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ???
Would you mind elaborating?
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On May 30 2014 03:01 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 02:56 mderg wrote:On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".
Welcome to my scum tier. Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.
I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.
But I kind of think he's town. To this: On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar? On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too. You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum? MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time? My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.
If you're town, I would have expected this
"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."
Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was
"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."
I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread.. I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest. At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? Would you mind elaborating? I bolded specific parts of his quotes.
I know, but what exactly do you make of it?
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I like the case on sloosh. I feel like it could just be lazy town, though. His play could make sense, if he took the jwz lynch for granted and didn´t really follow up on it because of that. Still he´s definitely high up in the list of suspects.
I still think MZ is scummy. I already made my case on him and I feel like it still stands.
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh
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I think sloosh´s first defense makes sense in theory but I think it looks kinda forced. I feel like if you want him to provide more content and proper reads, you can ask him questions about other people without pressuring too much. But almost ignoring feels like the wrong idea, if you want him to develop his own reads.
I wasn´t completely sold on his scumminess but this defense just doesn´t sound townie to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2014 01:00 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote:Okay, reading through filters, slOosh is my top scum right now and I want to lynch him. There’s other things that I think support scumreading him, but I think this is the best point so I want to start here and build. I think the central point is: After voting jabber, slOosh does nothing to develop his feelings on jabber. He doesn't try to get explanations from jabber or even follow up after jabber's responsesThis is the post where slOosh joins the vote for jabber. On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg Initially, this is worrisome because slOosh is joining the wagon in a noncommittal way. He isn’t stating what he agrees or disagrees with. This is a “+1” post. This is potentially scummy because it’s bandwagoning without commitment. But the remainder of the day is what turns from suspicious to scummy.After his vote, slOosh does almost nothing on the lynch on jabber. So, take a look at other players’ actions D1. Other players question jabber – they are not sure on the lynch, so they want to get more information or talk about the issue more with other players. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- slOosh's D1 is different from almost every other player D1 because of his lack of interaction or followup on slOoshI went through every players' filter and I think almost all of them (maybe not Slam) support my read on slOosh as uninterested in the jabber lynch. This is a little long so I'll put it in a spoiler, but I really invite you to read through it. + Show Spoiler +27Ninjabunnies:Many tons of interaction with jabber after she votes on him. + Show Spoiler +Meapak_Ziphh doesn’t interact with jabber much, but he does comment on the case numerous times through D1 and explaining how he feels on the lynch. His filter doesn’t look as good as bunnies to me – he doesn’t really ask jabber anything directly or necessarily stir up discussion. I think he's kind of suspicious anyway, but he’s still better than slOosh. + Show Spoiler +Gobbledydook:starts off with some hesitancy on the lynch and gives fair reasons, explains his thoughts as he goes, addresses comments to jabber as well. + Show Spoiler +HaruRH:A lot of Haru’s talk about JWZ is responsive, but he does address JWZ directly as well and comments on the lynch multiple times through d1. As an aside, rereading Haru’s talk D1 is the main reasons I now want to push slOosh over Haru. I still have doubts, for sure, but Haru’s level of interactionwith jabber feels so much higher than slOosh’s. + Show Spoiler +Sqrt:Sqrt was around when the case was made on jabber and interacted some with jabber and the players involved. He does ask jabber some questions and comments on jabber’s subsequent posts + Show Spoiler +Alakaslam: Ehh slam doesn’t really do much better than slOosh in this respect. He does have a little more on JWZ but it’s not too substantial either. + Show Spoiler +Mderg, Fuba, Palmar: I’m not going back into their filters because I did a lot already, and I know these players talked a lot about the jabber wagon on D1 so I don’t really want to post links on them for no reason. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So I just went through all these players. Why? It’s certainly possible for mafia to ask questions to jabber. They probably did! But, it is really hard for me to believe that town joins a vote on jabber, yet doesn’t seem to revisit the issue, talk about its merits with other players, or get some sort of confirmation from jabber.Pretty much every player in the game discussed the jabber lynch to some extent. Maybe we questioned jabber, or we explained our thoughts on why it could be a natural mistake, a scumslip, what jabber’s followup comments meant to us, etc. slOosh doesn’t ask any questions to jabber, or really follow up on the lynch. We get his explanation here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#229). After voting for jabber, slOosh's D1 is questioning other players on why they vote for jabber, talking about Slam & Palmar, etc. Seriously, take a look at his filter and see how little he has to say about the lynch that was there basically the entire day. Wheres other players expressed doubt through trying to get more information, press jabber for more information, etc., If you are town, you (like me) did not know whether jabber was mafia or not. You talked about the lynch, you read jabber's responses, and you probably considered them and wrote something about your reads. slOosh's d1 reflects indifference to the lynch. I feel that indifference comes from scum. ##Vote: slOosh Not interacting with him isn't the same thing as indifference. Jabber was in a situation where basically the entirety of town was calling him scum. The best thing to do in this situation is to ease off the pressure so we can see if he can develop some reads and absolve himself. Otherwise all his efforts are put into trying to defend himself for a mistake we now know was innocently made, and cannot be defended. Which is what he ended up doing. This led to posts like this Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 09:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 and tell what I think of everybody so far 1) Chromatically Thought his activity was suspicious at first, but rethinking about it now he doesn't seem too bad. 2) 27ninjabunnies Playing hard, throwing around leads. She could be scummy, but I'm leaning towards town for her. Nothing she's said has jumped out as questionable. 3) Meapak_Ziphh I agree with gobbledy, that his scatterbrainedness is more about a lack of confidence about his reads than scumm behavior. 4) gobbledydook no reads 5) jabberwockzerg That's me! Town, if there seems to be any confusion :D 6) mderg Not really getting much. 7) HaruRH Kinda defending me, which is cool of him. A real pal. Don't see why a Mafia would do that at all, so he's clean. 8) sqrtofneg1 On May 27 2014 10:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
tbh, I'm the reason we're in detention, so I have a lot of pressure on me to carry town to a win now.
So I'm not fine, I'm under pressure. and then following up with On May 27 2014 10:24 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Or maybe I don't feel the pressure. Maybe I'm scum, for the first time.
You know what really drives me crazy? I must have played over 30 games of irl mafia by now, and I've rolled mafia twice. Cop I've rolled quite a bit of cop, and doctor at least 3 times, but I never rolled mafia. just kinda seems like a half baked WIFOM attempt from mafia to my (admittedly untrained) eyes also he has been throwing down a lot without following up on a lot. Probably my frontrunner for scum at this point. 9) slOosh not getting much 10) Amiko Good, high quality posts, but no read at this point in time 11) Alakaslam no read 12) fuba Defending me, which is great of him. No reason for a Mafia to defend me, so he's clean for me. 13) Palmar A little scummy, which has been covered but not really at the forefront of my mind. I'll be happy to answer any questions people have for the next couple hours and attempt to clear my name In hindsight we see that because his time and focus is bent on something that he admits was a mistake and is indefensible, his post quality dropped. At the time, it's not clear if this is from scum or town, because there isn't too much actual content in here. I wanted to avoid this by not adding onto the grilling of him, and instead watch what he does if left alone. This is why I started prodding other people as it's more productive than just waiting to see what jabber would say, and also maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute. In the end jabber wasn't really able to mount any meaningful content so I left my vote on him.
I don´t think him making a case on MZ is alignment indicative for either of them. An MZ lynch is basically the only way for sloosh to survive. If sloosh flips scum (I´m assuming that he will be the lynch for today) it doesn´t clear MZ at all, since sloosh´s case on him came only when both were under heavy pressure.
This basically seals the deal for me.
On May 31 2014 05:07 Amiko wrote:He doesn’t indicate whether he wants another wagon or not – he waits to see who is proposed Here are ALL OF SLOOSH’S POSTS that come after we are discussing a second wagon until the vote. I was going to put this in a spoiler tag, but then I saw how few posts there were so why bother. Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:38 slOosh wrote:
I assume he was piggybacking on the "seems straightforward" aspect.
@Amiko, what do you mean by second wagon? What does that look like? Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 03:54 slOosh wrote:
Did the term wagon change while I was gone?
Are you guys proposing lynching someone else today? Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:05 slOosh wrote:On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players.
Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be. I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately. Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 04:14 slOosh wrote:On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?
@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x Oh I must have missed it. His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective. When I raise a wagon (as he says I should do soon) he doesn't even comment on it. So, as I said before, slOosh is scum because he doesn't weigh in on jabber, who should be a focus for the day. But, slOosh is also scum because he doesn't weigh in on any of the other wagons (Palmar, Haru, fuba)
What Amiko pointed out looks like textbook scumplay to me.
With this I´m pretty sure sloosh is scum. My opinion on MZ also didn´t change one bit, it´s just that sloosh is even scummier than him.
##unvote
##vote: slOosh
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I don´t even want to imagine what would have happened, if gobble voted and MZ was town...
In general I think scum is either MZ or likely to be found on the MZ wagon. I´m rather confident that it´s one between MZ, Palmar, sqrt, HaruRH. I don´t think it´s fuba, he started that and put himself in the spotlight in a way you probably wouldn´t want to as scum. The voteswitch at the end was strange because I don´t think it was going too easily. I mean the case was solid and based on sloosh´s whole game, and there were still like 3 people voting MZ.
On June 01 2014 09:41 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2014 09:40 Amiko wrote:
Okay, so do you think these points are wrong?
What is wrong?
also @Palmar and @fuba you should be answering this too He could just be lazy town, as palmar (or was it fuba?) said.
That was actually me and his defense suggested otherwise, so I don´t think it was really a solid point at the end of the day.
On June 01 2014 10:19 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2014 06:40 slOosh wrote:Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread. Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town. With bunny, On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol
Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning.
Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum.
Will discuss later Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post. I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do. Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day. Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow. If gobbles did not die out of a modkill, he would be our next suspect - and our next lynch. Did sloosh sell out his teammates?
I don´t think he sold out his teammates. His "reads" should probably not even taken into consideration right now since he was almost certainly going to get lynched at that point.
For now I´d still go with MZ. I read him as scum since the end of day 1.
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On June 01 2014 20:37 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2014 18:52 mderg wrote:I don´t even want to imagine what would have happened, if gobble voted and MZ was town... In general I think scum is either MZ or likely to be found on the MZ wagon. I´m rather confident that it´s one between MZ, Palmar, sqrt, HaruRH. I don´t think it´s fuba, he started that and put himself in the spotlight in a way you probably wouldn´t want to as scum. The voteswitch at the end was strange because I don´t think it was going too easily. I mean the case was solid and based on sloosh´s whole game, and there were still like 3 people voting MZ. On June 01 2014 09:41 sqrtofneg1 wrote:On June 01 2014 09:40 Amiko wrote:
Okay, so do you think these points are wrong?
What is wrong?
also @Palmar and @fuba you should be answering this too He could just be lazy town, as palmar (or was it fuba?) said. That was actually me and his defense suggested otherwise, so I don´t think it was really a solid point at the end of the day. On June 01 2014 10:19 HaruRH wrote:On June 01 2014 06:40 slOosh wrote:Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread. Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town. With bunny, On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol
Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning.
Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum.
Will discuss later Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post. I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do. Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day. Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow. If gobbles did not die out of a modkill, he would be our next suspect - and our next lynch. Did sloosh sell out his teammates? I don´t think he sold out his teammates. His "reads" should probably not even taken into consideration right now since he was almost certainly going to get lynched at that point. For now I´d still go with MZ. I read him as scum since the end of day 1. MZ is third on his list.
I probably worded that poorly. What I meant is that we can´t be sure what his last "reads" mean.
What exactly do you mean by selling out?
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On June 01 2014 22:01 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2014 20:56 mderg wrote:On June 01 2014 20:37 HaruRH wrote:On June 01 2014 18:52 mderg wrote:I don´t even want to imagine what would have happened, if gobble voted and MZ was town... In general I think scum is either MZ or likely to be found on the MZ wagon. I´m rather confident that it´s one between MZ, Palmar, sqrt, HaruRH. I don´t think it´s fuba, he started that and put himself in the spotlight in a way you probably wouldn´t want to as scum. The voteswitch at the end was strange because I don´t think it was going too easily. I mean the case was solid and based on sloosh´s whole game, and there were still like 3 people voting MZ. On June 01 2014 09:41 sqrtofneg1 wrote:On June 01 2014 09:40 Amiko wrote:
Okay, so do you think these points are wrong?
What is wrong?
also @Palmar and @fuba you should be answering this too He could just be lazy town, as palmar (or was it fuba?) said. That was actually me and his defense suggested otherwise, so I don´t think it was really a solid point at the end of the day. On June 01 2014 10:19 HaruRH wrote:On June 01 2014 06:40 slOosh wrote:Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread. Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town. With bunny, On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol
Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning.
Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum.
Will discuss later Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post. I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do. Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day. Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow. If gobbles did not die out of a modkill, he would be our next suspect - and our next lynch. Did sloosh sell out his teammates? I don´t think he sold out his teammates. His "reads" should probably not even taken into consideration right now since he was almost certainly going to get lynched at that point. For now I´d still go with MZ. I read him as scum since the end of day 1. MZ is third on his list. I probably worded that poorly. What I meant is that we can´t be sure what his last "reads" mean. What exactly do you mean by selling out? If I'm mafia, I will redirect all the attention to palmar or others like slam. Why ask people to pressure gobble and MZ?
He was most likely going to die either way. There was no way Palmar or Slam were gonna get lynched instead of him.
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On June 01 2014 22:27 HaruRH wrote:
EBWOP
sloosh mentioned gooble as his primary target after he is lynched -> turned out to be mafia indeed.
slosh mentioned MZ as his second target ->???
OK this sounds logical. Even though it´s purely association based.
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Amiko, how do you feel about this predetermined lynch order that seems to be the general consensus right now?
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On June 02 2014 03:09 Amiko wrote:
I don't mind answering that now.
I think attempting to plan out our lynch for tomorrow is not useful discussion.
We can figure out the best lynch for tomorrow tomorrow.
I don't hate that they talked about it though, cause it gives me something to pressure them on (M_Z / Palmar as the first two scum, and whether to follow slOosh's death list and what that means)
IMO tonight is better served rereading what we already have with new knowledge (that gobble & slOosh are both confirmed scum).
We saw people at the end of d2 talk about how the day and votes had such great information- so why aren't we seeing people attempt to use anything in d2 to justify their points?
As you can probably guess I´m thinking about this in a similar way. Discussing where to look for scum and pressuring these guys when the lynch comes up seems to be more reasonable. Even though I think the remaining scum is in that lynch list I think that some actual discussion would be helpful.
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I was roleblocked last night.
On June 02 2014 03:27 Amiko wrote:Btw @mderg- Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 02:41 Amiko wrote:@sqrt, @Alakaslam: Look at slOosh's death post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=38#747) Then, could tell me what you think of this post: On June 01 2014 11:32 HaruRH wrote:
In fact, I think we should lynch everyone on sloosh's 'death list'. I would like to hear from sqrt/Alakaslam on this first, but do take a look at this even if you stay quiet since I it gave me some thoughts on Haru.
I guess I can give my thoughts on this now.
While I think that what Haru said is a perfectly logical assessment, I highly doubt that it´s the right way to continue like that. It´s WIFOM and we have no idea what sloosh really wanted to accomplish with his last reads. Maybe he was trying to clear his scummates, maybe he was just randomly giving people scumreads to confuse us. I think it´s too risky to blindly lynch everyone on sloosh´s scumlist.
On June 02 2014 05:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 05:21 Amiko wrote:On June 02 2014 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm actually happy dying for the cause since I'm not gonna lie I've played a very shitty game. My one request is that you all agree to lynch a target of my choice after I die. So you think your play is bad, but you want us to sheep you on a lynch? :| The thread is short enough I figure I can reread it with the information from the flips and figure it out.
Blindly lynching a target of your choice seems like a stupid idea. If you actually do flip town, everyone should take a close look at your last reads but there´s no way we´re gonna lynch someone just because you told us to.
On June 02 2014 10:31 HaruRH wrote:
Now that I think of it, only the roleblocker is left as scum. If slam is mafia, he can easily claim roleblock on n1 without roleblocking anyone.
I agree. I don´t think we can 100% confirm anyone as town based on roleblock claims. But we also can´t call anyone scum for not being killed in the night.
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On June 03 2014 05:46 Amiko wrote:
I mean it's possible but I don't see why it's compelling either way.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he wants them to appear towny.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he thinks it will make him seem more towny.
- Maybe he put one mafia in his list, maybe two.
There's no reliable way to figure out his intentions, so I don't really feel that it's useful to pry that deeply into them.
If you really want to focus on players' last words, why aren't you looking at town players instead?
> What do you think of Chrom's pre-death reads?
> What about bunnies' pre-death reads?
Compared to slOosh, at least you know these players were probably giving their honest reads.
This is exactly what I think about that.
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On June 03 2014 06:47 Amiko wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 06:44 mderg wrote:On June 03 2014 05:46 Amiko wrote:
I mean it's possible but I don't see why it's compelling either way.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he wants them to appear towny.
- Maybe he's attacking the people because he thinks it will make him seem more towny.
- Maybe he put one mafia in his list, maybe two.
There's no reliable way to figure out his intentions, so I don't really feel that it's useful to pry that deeply into them.
If you really want to focus on players' last words, why aren't you looking at town players instead?
> What do you think of Chrom's pre-death reads?
> What about bunnies' pre-death reads?
Compared to slOosh, at least you know these players were probably giving their honest reads. This is exactly what I think about that. Show nested quote +On June 01 2014 22:41 mderg wrote:On June 01 2014 22:27 HaruRH wrote:
EBWOP
sloosh mentioned gooble as his primary target after he is lynched -> turned out to be mafia indeed.
slosh mentioned MZ as his second target ->??? OK this sounds logical. Even though it´s purely association based. Clarify?
His reasoning was perfectly logical but that doesn´t mean it´s right. There´s no way to know what actually were sloosh´s intentions, so we can´t tell much from his last reads.
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EPT
