EPTI'm soon fully back so i will make up my decision.
II Titanic Mini Mafia - Page 104
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
I'm soon fully back so i will make up my decision. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Deadline for votes is still 21:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 14 2013 21:37 xigxag wrote: ##vote vayne I am avoiding a possible mod kill with this vote. Actual analysis will follow when I return from work. your cases on vayn and purple are weak and so is your engagement with the town. your lurking is a liability and your broken promises give me no reason to believe that will change. if we had a competent vigi you'd be dead. as it stands I am out of bullets so we do this the hard way. xx will never get shot by mafia. xx will never prove himself town. xx will never help catch scum if he is somehow town. this makes him a massive liability. in the post game we could blame him for being bad but I have a much better solution: ##unvote ##vote xigxag | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On December 15 2013 00:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'm going to sauna soon. I read Artanis and purple again and i think they are most likely to flip mafia. I don't think either of LSB / Vayne is scum. Plutarch issue will solve itself later on in the game. JJD and Grack look town to me aswell. So does kush and Slam. Xatalos is a questionmark to me. Other people are some lurkers that could go either way, but i don't think sidesprang is a good lynch as he is at least trying to play the game. Won't even talk about BH because town. Rayne I know you didn't give any reasons & stuff but this post rings true, and I haven't really been solid sure since you and LSB were my strongest (still weak) scum reads and here you are convincing me you are town and that so is LSB just by your conversations leading up to this post. Regardless, ##Unvote | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On December 15 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: JJD the problem is i kinda get Vayne. He uses a lot of absolutes in his posts and when he explained those "scumslips" he meant it differently than how we read it. It's also his behavior. Vayne is way more tryhard and cooperative as mafia. When he is town he does like policy lynches, especially Slam, i totally get that from him and the whole attitude towards Slam. When people accuse him he basically says "fuck you" to all of them and does not even try to be reasonable. He goes "lynch me fuckers, here are my reads i don't care if you listen to me or not and i am not going to defend myself". That's exactly what he is doing in this game, and it's not what he does as mafia. As mafia he cares about his team winning and pushes scum agenda and that's definitely not what he is doing here. Well and not to mention pregame bitterness, Rayne... He is obviously town almost on the same level as Blazinghand. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On December 15 2013 02:56 Blazinghand wrote: your cases on vayn and purple are weak and so is your engagement with the town. your lurking is a liability and your broken promises give me no reason to believe that will change. if we had a competent vigi you'd be dead. as it stands I am out of bullets so we do this the hard way. xx will never get shot by mafia. xx will never prove himself town. xx will never help catch scum if he is somehow town. this makes him a massive liability. in the post game we could blame him for being bad but I have a much better solution: ##unvote ##vote xigxag And, finally, let's see what he says- although, I am a similar liability. ##Vote: xigxag | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
FUCK THIS! Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes". He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it. Artanis is the best lynch today. ##Vote: Artanis | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i just wrote a fucking big case on Artanis it took like an hour and then i clicked on X. FUCK THIS! Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes". He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it. Artanis is the best lynch today. ##Vote: Artanis Imma bout ready to do this instead, Let's see what else is said. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i just wrote a fucking big case on Artanis it took like an hour and then i clicked on X. FUCK THIS! Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. I have been screaming at people for opinions on Xatalos all game but no one's giving it any thought. I've quoted the points I've listed. There have been points added to that. It just seems that everyone's too interested in LSB and Vayne to look at Xatalos. Look at my filter. I've called attention to him plenty of times. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. I was making the post including Vayne as I went along through the thread. I reread the case of JJD on Vayne during the creation of the post and forgot I mentioned him before because I hadn't paid much attention to him beforehand. My read on Cora doesn't change weirdly; I spotted some strange things in Cora's filter brought to my attention by HF, but could later explain them from a town perspective after reconsidering it. I've been focussed on trying to get Xatalos lynched on whom I have a strong scumread. The fact that no one's willing to listen frustrates me and it's eating into my appetite to playing the game. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes". That was an offhand presumption. If you think townies never make them then I don't hold your opinion in high regard. Xatalos' vote was poor because of other circumstancial reasons, such as his scumreads voting for it and because he even gave spaghetti a townread earlier on. He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it. Artanis is the best lynch today. ##Vote: Artanis Nope, Xatalos is. Does anyone finally want to talk about him? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
Where are all the scum sheep votes? No scum wants to bandwagon such a thought out case from a townie? There's just too much resistance for vayne to be town. Or Maybe you think scum already has a person voting vayne? On December 14 2013 23:20 Aquanim wrote: VayneAuthority (3): JarJarDrinks, xigxag, sidesprang You can't tell me that you believe town is making a case against town and 2 townies are the only people on the wagon. Someone is scum in that group. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can talk about Xatalos but you need a different approach. I have already answered your case on D1 and the case is practically the same, besides his vote on Spag. I don't think that alone makes him mafia. You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:47 JarJarDrinks wrote: @rayne - U think Vayne is town. U think I'm town. I make a huge case against Vayne which has some real good points. Where are all the scum sheep votes? No scum wants to bandwagon such a thought out case from a townie? There's just too much resistance for vayne to be town. Or Maybe you think scum already has a person voting vayne? You can't tell me that you believe town is making a case against town and 2 townies are the only people on the wagon. Someone is scum in that group. Not necessarily as i think LSB is town aswell. And i do not know about sidesprang and xigxag. Althoguh the latter looks worse to me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff. Yes i did not think Mocsta was mafia until he went on and shot StorrZerg. I told him his case was not good but i could have seen town!Mocsta do that case. Maybe i am just shitty in reading him. Can you do/answer the following: 1) Give me the reasoning why Xatalos is mafia. I promise you i will be reading his filter and tell you what i think. 2) Do you think you can get Xatalos lynched today? If not, could you give at least 2 people who you think are mafia, with reasoning, not only saying they "work under mafia mindset" or "are bad or scum". Like actually explain why something means something to you. If you are town it's really hard to tell atm because that's honestly what you are doing in your reads on about ~half of the people in this game. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On December 15 2013 03:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i did not think Mocsta was mafia until he went on and shot StorrZerg. I told him his case was not good but i could have seen town!Mocsta do that case. Maybe i am just shitty in reading him. Can you do/answer the following: 1) Give me the reasoning why Xatalos is mafia. I promise you i will be reading his filter and tell you what i think. 2) Do you think you can get Xatalos lynched today? If not, could you give at least 2 people who you think are mafia, with reasoning, not only saying they "work under mafia mindset" or "are bad or scum". Like actually explain why something means something to you. If you are town it's really hard to tell atm because that's honestly what you are doing in your reads on about ~half of the people in this game. Sure. Can you answer me why you were unwilling to talk to me earlier because you considered me scum when that read hasn't changed, yet are willing to do so now? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
On December 15 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's not the meta read I have on vayne. I was his scumbuddy once and basicallly what happened was he was under alot of pressure early game and he pretty much lashed out and insulted people and town sentiment changed to "Oh he's too scummy to be scum" and then he took a backseat and stayed out of the spotlight and made it to the endgame.JJD the problem is i kinda get Vayne. He uses a lot of absolutes in his posts and when he explained those "scumslips" he meant it differently than how we read it. It's also his behavior. Vayne is way more tryhard and cooperative as mafia. When he is town he does like policy lynches, especially Slam, i totally get that from him and the whole attitude towards Slam. When people accuse him he basically says "fuck you" to all of them and does not even try to be reasonable. He goes "lynch me fuckers, here are my reads i don't care if you listen to me or not and i am not going to defend myself". That's exactly what he is doing in this game, and it's not what he does as mafia. As mafia he cares about his team winning and pushes scum agenda and that's definitely not what he is doing here. Not sure where u'r read is coming from but was he under alot of pressure in whatever game it's from? | ||
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JarJarDrinks
United States1302 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972 You were even in it. I believe we NK'd u night 1. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
On December 14 2013 20:43 Xatalos wrote: Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance. On December 14 2013 20:56 Xatalos wrote: Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure". He says Artanis is being wishy-washy from that one sentence without even reading his entire post. He believes having wishy-washy stances is scummy. On December 14 2013 21:14 Xatalos wrote: I'd say he's lynchable, but not he best lynch. Maybe 60% chance of flipping scum. That's why I'm looking elsewhere at the moment. He gives an even more wishy-washy stance than Artanis, but what concerns me more is that he is incapable of seeing why that could be scummy. I think he is smarter than that and is bullshitting. On December 14 2013 21:20 Xatalos wrote: Lol. I can't be unsure about if someone is town/scum? You think I'm scum with LSB or what? If Xatalos truly believes this makes other people scummy... why doesn't he believe it makes himself look scummy? On December 14 2013 21:23 Xatalos wrote: That was mostly because I was worried about an association between Artanis/LSB. Artanis is null on LSB, I'm leaning slightly scum. What's scummy about that? I agree I'm not confident about what LSB is, but that hardly makes me scum. On December 14 2013 21:24 Xatalos wrote: There are different levels of scummy. It's not that someone is 100% town or 100% scum. Why lynch the less scummy player over the more scummy? You don't make sense. On December 14 2013 21:30 Xatalos wrote: Waiting for an explanation, rayn... On December 14 2013 21:35 Xatalos wrote: As I said, I was mostly thinking of a possible association between Artanis/LSB (since the read seemed rather wishy-washy) and not that the read itself was scummy. As you could see from my earlier posts, I was quite undecided about LSB myself. How doesn't that make sense? I just don't believe his responses. I think a town Xatalos would see that it was dumb of him to accuse Artanis for having a wishy-washy read when his own read was wishy-washy or a townie would say that it was actually kind of scummy of him to make such a wishy-washy read. He stands by his prior statement that Artanis doing that was scummy and refuses to recognize that people could see him as scummy for the same reason. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
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