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On October 18 2012 02:27 austinmcc wrote:Alright. I have seen reasons from kush, hopeless1der, and djodref as to why mementoss is town. You guys are all wrong. I'll get to that. Here are a couple introductory points: (1) Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote:
I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate.
My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum.
This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. Sandroba said nothing about mementoss beyond this point. In response to me asking what his top two scum reads were if prplhz was town, ET wrote: Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 06:18 EchelonTee wrote:da0ud On October 13 2012 11:14 EchelonTee wrote:I made some posts on him in the past. mmt On October 14 2012 12:54 EchelonTee wrote:On October 13 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote:On October 13 2012 23:21 austinmcc wrote:On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote:
prp: 8 Remain
ON: 8 Remain
da0: 9 Remain
Austin: 9 Remain
This^^ this right here is horseshit.
Apathetic voting up towards the last round is unacceptable.
I think everyone should only be using 5 of there votes
3 of these players alone trump the rest of the players in the game. Sandroba doesn't even have anyvotes to defend himself while ON has 9.
Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. For the people with 0 votes left.
##Mementoss vote "Player Name"
and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process.
Why is apathetic voting horseshit? Is horseshit just horseshit, or do you find it to come from a town or scum horse? Why should everyone only be using one vote? Why are you giving out votes to anyone with 0 votes left? I had planned to give away either blocks of 3 or blocks of 4 votes to people I strongly feel are town, but not to ANYONE, and not based on the number of votes they have left. How is having no votes a good criteria for who you want to give more control over the lynch to, instead of using a criteria like your townreads? what how much info are we gunna get when half the people cant vote on the lynch, and the other half have no say in the final decision. The lynch is left up to those 4 players, and since one of them is in the hot seat. He can use 9 votes to save himself. I guess playing as passive as you and not putting any reads on anyone to too late so you don't have to vote and can sheep and holding all your votes is your strategy. I guess thats cool >_>. This is such a strange post. You are presenting the lack of votes used as bad, but you don't go so far to say it is scummy. So therefore you spending a significant time talking about something that isn't meant to find scum. First strange part. Second strange part is that you are saying that austin is playing very passive and not putting any reads on people, where his filter shows him sharing thoughts quite easily. It doesn't matter that austin's filter is 10 pages long with 1000 word posts; it's a mispresentation to present him like this. However, misrepresentation isn't alone bad; people make mistakes. Exhibit A is myself and kush having a cock fight for no reason. The difference is in the confidence and tone displayed. Kush had (or has) a strong feeling that I was scum and fought me directly, making strong moves stating that he thought I was scum. On the other hand, in this post Mementoss seems extremely floating because he tries to discredit austin and make him seem scummy, while not ever saying that directly. It's very non-confrontational, which is strange compared to his early play. Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 06:22 EchelonTee wrote:
I might lean more scummy on mmt as of late since da0ud could just be noobie, but I don't really think prplhz/mmt would try and defend each other so hard? It's possible though. ET said nothing about mementoss after this point. Moreover, the main reason he appears unsure of mementoss is that prplhz/mmt mafia team wouldn't be defending each other so hard. prplhz flipped town, that reason is out the window. So, point 1 is that both NKs have stated that they believed mementoss to be scummy, under the flips we've had (ET had him scummy if prplhz flipped town, which happened). They shared that read. Moreover, this partially explains why I'm not dead, if you think I should have died last night. I have come out with strong suspicions of mementoss. Both of them mentioned him as scummy, but sandroba didn't go into detail and ET didn't really update that read after prplhz flipped. They are great players to take out if mementoss is scum, because when you look over their filters, you don't get a clear "This NKed person found mementoss scummy" train of thought. If I die, the strongest read I've had is mementoss, and so he's much more in the spotlight. (2) mementoss is a solid player from what I've seen. He played quite well in Aperture, we needed to take him out N1 as scum. In this game, IF mementoss were town, I would expect scum to go "Sandroba scummy on mementoss" and "ET scummy on mementoss" and "Austin and da0ud wrote cases on mementoss" and try to push mementoss. If mementoss were town, someone would be sheeping me, because getting a lynch on a strong townie as scum is great, it saves you a NK. Instead, we're arguing over whether to lynch da0ud? me? Again, IF mementoss were town this game, there's a real nice avenue for scum to push for his lynch. They haven't done so. ET and Sandroba both NKed, ET and Sandroba both scummy on this guy, yet scum isn't using that to push a mislynch. mementoss slightly less likely to be town based on that. This concludes the NK/dead folks' reads portion of crap I'm going to say right now.
I kinda feel honoured that you planned out your night kills so much to try and further incriminate me/strengthen your own case so you could lynch me.
"In this game, IF mementoss were town, I would expect scum to go "Sandroba scummy on mementoss" and "ET scummy on mementoss" and "Austin and da0ud wrote cases on mementoss" and try to push mementoss"
How ironic of you to state your own plan IE (what you are currently doing) in the post that was supposed to make me look scummy.
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To kush,
Here is the post where I see you finding mementoss town:
On October 17 2012 12:01 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 12:00 austinmcc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey! Here's way more text than you want to read about MEMENTOSS! I don't know when night ends, so I want to get thoughts out asap though. We should all be doing some of this. Read on mementoss is wonky, because his early play felt very towny. He was the first person to do a big "Here's what I think about each matchup" post. I liked that, that someone would do that and kind of force more people to do so. Town justification: More info into thread, explain self, be transparent Scum justification: Hide votes in 1-2 matchups by speaking about ALL matchups? Overcompensating and trying to look townie by being open? Overall I was leaning townie on him for that stuff. His play in the later rounds feels different from that openness. Whereas in those matchup posts he's giving his thoughts on everyone, he then stopped doing so. To the extent we have his thoughts recently, it's basically just that holding votes is scummy, having lots of votes is scummy. On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote:
Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. Knowing that ON was scum, this means he's probably got...1-3 scumbuddies, likely only 2. If everyone only uses 1 vote, 2 players provide a decent swing. If one player was low on votes (had 1 or 0 left), this helps them take control over the lynch. On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote:
For the people with 0 votes left.
##Mementoss vote "Player Name"
and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process.
Also willing to give away votes. But the reason he's giving them away is one I don't like. If people saving their votes is scummy because they want to control the lynch, then people who blew votes early to control lynches should also be scummy under mementoss's reasoning. Yet he wants to give those people votes. Also, if he were town, wouldn't he be worried about giving away votes to just anyone? I was. CHECK DIS OUT RIGHT HERE On October 13 2012 22:53 Mementoss wrote:
Also ET I know you explained it but its still fucking weird that you LAST MINUTE dropped all your votes on ON, after expecting him for a modkill, not having a read on him. And having a scum read on hopeless all of the first 2 cycles, you save him last minute.
Not sure which way I will be voting today yet. ET DOES look good for pushing ON through. You know who was displeased that ET votebombed last minute and pushed ON through? Mementoss. Read that again. What alignment is most likely to be very perturbed that someone came in and dropped votes on ON, when ON was safe from lynch and hopeless1der was moving on? One of those things that's always nice to look at is where something sudden happens that can throw scum off their game/plans. ET voting ON RIGHT at deadline was one such moment, and mementoss reacted hard. However, today Mementoss voted ON. Do you guys know why!? On October 14 2012 00:31 Mementoss wrote:
I will be putting all my votes on ON unless he returns then On October 14 2012 00:46 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 00:32 austinmcc wrote:On October 14 2012 00:31 Mementoss wrote:
I will be putting all my votes on ON unless he returns then Because of sandroba's comments? no because no one would co-operate anyways, and although I think sandroba's play has been scummy im not super sure. But if he flips town then we have ON who refuses to post or do anything, and its gunna be a bad time. Overall, I guess im happy with either lynch, lynching someone I have a bit of a scum read on, or lynching a complete lurker. He's voting ON because...he's a bit scummy on Sandroba, but wants to lynch ON who is lurking. His prior thoughts on ON - On October 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:
OriginalName
Lurking pretty hard as well. Only has one post with content so far. But it brings up some pretty decent points. Still he needs more activity into the game, looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups. Null. Not voting either.
ON lurking but null. ON's only post had decent points. Weird phrasing. "Needs more activity" "looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups." That "looking forward" to language sticks out as just funky. He's never been scummy on ON. He's scummy on Sandroba. But he's voting ON. (Yes, it's not scummy to vote scum, but i'm having trouble seeing why he did so) Then there are just a variety of questions that I was asking him which he didn't answer. Doesn't answer second question at all - + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 22:43 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 10:24 austinmcc wrote:
Mementoss. Pretend for a moment that you're Mementoss this game. (Or, if you don't have to pretend, please let us know).
You and your hypothetical scumbuddies are hanging out in QT, discussing how to play out the matchups and how you want to vote and do scummy stuff and whatnot. The following questions come up, as to how each of you wants to do things. How do you respond?
Do you guys make sure to sometimes be on opposite sides of a matchup? Or do you not care if 2 scum players vote together the entire way through D1?
Say in round 1 or round 2 there's a matchup that you want to influence, one of your scumbuddies is neck and neck with a townie. Do you just vote that matchup? Or do you vote that matchup + 1 or 2 that you don't care about, in order to hide the vote you actually want to make in with some that don't make a difference to you?
Is there any particular player you think is a likely D1 mislynch, just looking at player list and like...the first couple pages of the game. If so, who?
ET, I'd like to see your answers to those questions as well. You had some setup talk at the beginning that I liked, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about the setup from the perspective of you playing as ET. Okay let me pretend to be mementoss. 1. Don't care. 2. Vote the people acting scummiest in the thread. 3. ON is a likely mislynch for lurking, and kush is a likely mislynch for his meta. (if they are town that is) aka its not hard for scum to put them through without real reasoning I don't understand the purpose of this question though. lol. Doesn't explain a variety of things - + Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 23:21 austinmcc wrote:On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote:
prp: 8 Remain
ON: 8 Remain
da0: 9 Remain
Austin: 9 Remain
This^^ this right here is horseshit.
Apathetic voting up towards the last round is unacceptable.
I think everyone should only be using 5 of there votes
3 of these players alone trump the rest of the players in the game. Sandroba doesn't even have anyvotes to defend himself while ON has 9.
Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. For the people with 0 votes left.
##Mementoss vote "Player Name"
and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process.
Why is apathetic voting horseshit? Is horseshit just horseshit, or do you find it to come from a town or scum horse? Why should everyone only be using one vote? Why are you giving out votes to anyone with 0 votes left? I had planned to give away either blocks of 3 or blocks of 4 votes to people I strongly feel are town, but not to ANYONE, and not based on the number of votes they have left. How is having no votes a good criteria for who you want to give more control over the lynch to, instead of using a criteria like your townreads? what how much info are we gunna get when half the people cant vote on the lynch, and the other half have no say in the final decision. The lynch is left up to those 4 players, and since one of them is in the hot seat. He can use 9 votes to save himself. I guess playing as passive as you and not putting any reads on anyone to too late so you don't have to vote and can sheep and holding all your votes is your strategy. I guess thats cool >_>. Doesn't answer why apathetic voting is horseshit, doesn't explain why scummy. (If he's going to pay so much attention to people with lots of votes, be so concerned about them, then what is his reasoning? Is there a townie reason to worry, or is he just being active in thread and THINKS this might be a good point to push?). Doesn't explain why we should be using 1 vote. (What's his reasoning? Is it a townie one or does he want more control of lynch and is worried about townies who have votes)? Doesn't explain why he's giving away votes to anyone with 0.
Some minor thoughts, typed quickly because we don't know when night ends. Really vague association! On October 11 2012 11:30 OriginalName wrote:
Djo:
I'm going to wait abit to call out lurking due to timezones. However he did vote me for megalurk then disappear.
One thing that bothers me this time around is believe it or not, that vote on Mementoss. He uses the excuse that he was drunk to cover it up rather than assert his position harder and back it up. It was by his words an accident, at the very least he could push it and get more reactions, there is nothing wrong in an incorrect push as it always reveals something.
ON had like...one post of substance. In writing about Djo, ON got a little worked up over a vote on mementoss. Possibly looking out for a scumbuddy? It's not much, but there's really not much in ON's filter. But he's directly addressing the ET/Djo matchup on D2, and he ONLY talks about ET/Djo except where he brings in mementoss. Weak at best.
Anyway, if I'm looking PURELY at associations to be drawn from ON's flip, Mementoss comes off looking the worst. ON mildly references him, is concerned with a vote on him. Mementoss is relatively concerned with ET dropping votes on ON RIGHT at deadline to push him through (Hey, which faction wants to plan and didn't want ON to move into further rounds?). Also, I ALWAYS find mementoss scummy. Every game I really look at him, I end up finding him scummy. But it's not usually for stuff like this - the minor associative bits are especially different from past accusations I've made. This is your first "case" on memetoss. You say his early game looks town. And yeah it looks town as fuck. His activity cuts off quite a bit. I don't think this is really a scumtell. It fits his meta to sometimes afk. Your second point is memetoss' 1 vote idea. I had that idea too. Not a scumtell. It's a huge reach to say that this was a conspiracy theory to control the vote. Third point: he's willing to gave away votes. So were you. Also he didn't. Also this directly contradicts your idea of trying to control the vote with his scumteam. 4th point: He got pissed at ET for votebombing ON. So did I. The thing was I really thought he was a bad lynch, until sandroba started looking really town and ON was the only other option. He was a null read for everyone, and you can't blame anyone for not wanting to lynch him. 5th point: Meme toss voted for ON anyway. That's because he didn't think Sandroba was scummy. You have to realize that he was pissed about sending ON over 1der, but that is a completely different story than ON over sandroba. 6th point: He didn't answer ALL of your questions. Your questions were fucked up and pretty unanswerable though. 7th point: He says apathetic voting is horshshit. Well it is anti town so that's prob what he meant? Your book club questions: memetoss has been way more active at pushing his suspicions than someone like thrawn for instance. Also I know what it's like to play this game at work and it's really hard to be in depth and include details. I get the sense that he was keeping up on the thread and writing down his observations mostly. I do this a lot and maybe it's not super helpful but I think it's quite risky and dangerous for scum to do. Memetoss=town, sorry austin.
That was my first case on mementoss. So, for starters, you should look at the thoughts I've had after that.
Specifically addressing some of the reasons you found him townie:
The 3rd point. He's willing to give away votes, so was I, contradicts my idea of trying to control the vote with the scumteam.- He SAID he was willing to, but he did not. Whereas I actually did. THIS IS A THEME WITH MEMENTOSS THIS GAME. LOOK AT WHAT HE SAYS vs. WHAT HE DOES.
- His REASONS for giving away votes were different, and that's extremely important. I gave mine away to town reads, in part because i thought you guys were town and in part to see what you did with them, to try and strengthen or change my reads. Mementoss SAID he would give votes to anyone with 0 votes left. That is NOT good reasoning for giving away votes, as he's just giving them away willy-nilly and could give votes to scum.
The 4th point. ON was a null read and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to vote him. Mementoss was actively upset at ET that he voted NOT-ON. If ON was null to mementoss, there would be no reason to get so worked up. If someone finds one of my null reads scummy or townie, oh well. I don't have a strong read on that person. But Mementoss is concerned that ET voted ON, which implies that Mementoss actually has a read on ON, or is, at the very least, not null on ON. You wouldn't get upset that a null read went further. It shows that Mementoss is actively concerned with what happens to ON, rather than purely null on him.
The 6th and 7th point. Those questions were not meaningless. Some of those questions are difficult for scum to answer. If you ask a scum what he would do this game as scum, you're forcing him to think. Does he give up his actual plan? Does he lie and hope you don't know his play? He has to consider what he's saying, really think and work at an answer. But he never provides an answer to some, and doesn't give his reasoning for saying apathetic voting is horseshit. If he's town and thinks apathetic voting is horseshit, he should be able to explain exactly why, and whether it's town or scum horseshit. Instead, he just calls it horseshit and doesn't follow-up. In effect, although "horseshit" looks like a strong accusation, it's wishy-washy. He refuses to say if it's town horseshit or scum horseshit, refuses to make a read off it. Mementoss is throwing things into thread that LOOK good, but when you go a level deeper, there's nothing THERE. Horseshit didn't mean scummy horseshit, it was just a colorful adjective that was actually wishy-washy.
I'll address the book club questions in a sec.
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Austin what do you think about da0? He qualifies for a lot of the same nk points you made about mementoss although he's way more in the spotlight.
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First let me say that I am this game's resident thrawn expert. I have played more games than anyone else with him.
META
His play is much different this game than his town games. And it has nothing to do with the "walls of text" he says he is trying to avoid this game. In fact, thrawn was never known for walls of text. He is very aggressive and strong as town though.
Here's a post to help you get a feel of town thrawn:
On September 05 2012 01:03 thrawn2112 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +##FOS KvilleKville is a huge problem. Here's a summary of his actions so far: His first post which is 12 hours into the game, is only to inform us: "Im not lurking! I just woke up!" In his next post, 6 hours later, he says that he's not in favor of a D1 lynch which isn't even possible. He also says that reads are pointless during D1. Then he self-votes. When asked why he self-voted, he said it was to make a point. His point was that trying to have any reads at all during D1 is a waste of time, therefore his vote on himself and his vote for another player have equal merit. If he doesn't like voting based on reads during D1, then why not vote for one of the lurkers? His vote is completely useless and is anti-town regardless of whether he's town/scum. I do not see his actions or opinions as logical. If we were to take his advice and not try to make any reads during D1, then we will have nothing to start with on D2. Even if a townie gets lynched on D1 it will at least cause people to commit to reads which we can later analyze for how genuine their read seemed. I pointed out that his logic and play are so unbelievably horrible that it must be trollling, and I asked him for an explanation as to what exactly it is he's doing by playing so anti-town. His response was this post where he not only didn't answer my question, he also said my interrogation of him looks scummy. What happened to his strong conviction that we shouldn't make reads during the first day? He goes out of his way to prove his point that making reads is useless, but immediately as I put pressure on him he abandons his "no reads on D1" policy in order to call me scummy? After the lynch he goes on about about his "scumhunting is worthless in D1" idea. So kville, according to you when is a good time to start making reads? Surely you don't think that we should continue to not make reads? So what is your read then, now that D1 is over? I see you voted for the replacement player imcasey but you didn't put it in the voting thread. Is this another one of your anti-town troll posts or do you have a read on him which for some reason you won't explain? Once again I want you to answer to why you're playing so incredibly anti-town.
So forceful, so decisive. That is a dick you can be proud to ride.
In short, usually he is an active scumhunter. Here is a wishy washy questionasker.
LACK OF CONTENT LACK OF CONVICTION
When I asked thrawn why he hadn't made any cases, he says "what about sandroba?"
That was the only person he EVER had a scumread of at the time.
But his scumread was so weak that he wasn't even sure of it over a NULL READ:
Because I'm still considering a policy lynch. Having a scumread on sandroba doesn't automatically trump a null read on ON. And if I'm wrong about sand then that would be a great loss to town.
For town, scumreads trump nullreads.
Also due to ON's afk, I think the possibility of a bus is much more likely, so keep that in mind.
IM NULL ON DAOUD BUT HES MY TOP SCUMREAD
This is thrawn's latest quote concerning daoud.
I really don't know what to make of him. Like I've said I want to think he's town because his scumhunting shows newbie townie paranoia (crazy association cases etc) but there's so much against him.... and this last flip flop has been truly wtf.
Yet daoud is on the TOP of his list?? Thrawn has 0 conviction.
Then there is this post:
On October 17 2012 21:08 thrawn2112 wrote:
And look at the voting results:
Hopeless vs OriginalName 15-12
sandroba vs djodref 4-0
To me that very clearly suggests scum activity behind the hopeless vs ON matchup... and the two who voted for hopeless were kush/djo. I suggest everyone go and read the r3 part of the thread.
I see only three possible scenarios:
A) there is scum among kush/djo
B) hopeless took the lead against ON on accident without scum interference
C) if hopeless is scum then for some reason scum decided they'd rather have hopeless in the finals instead on ON
I really think there is something too all this but lets please keep the discussion from reaching wifom insanity
So according to this, he should be suspicious of me and djo, but look how low we are on his ranking.
Thrawn's posting has really picked up since I told him I knew he was scum. He knows I'm right and he's trying to prove me wrong.
##FOS THRAWN
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hopeless1der, that brings me to YOUR reasons for thinking mementoss is town.
On October 18 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
1-da0ud
2-austinmcc
3-djodref
4-HiroPro
5-kushm4sta
6-thrawn2112
7-Mementoss
8-Hopeless1der
Obviously I'm biased due to his case, but MMT has been berating us constantly for not actively pushing scumreads and I kept seeing him saying things that weren't true Day1 regarding voting on your own matchups. I sincerely doubt that a scumteam would allow him to continue to misunderstand the lynch mechanics like that, or that he'd be so careless if he were scum.
Be back later, need to go do work for a change.
- MMT has been berating us constantly for not actively pushing scumreads
- I kept seeing him saying things that weren't true Day1 regarding voting on your own matchups. I sincerely doubt that a scumteam would allow him to continue to misunderstand the lynch mechanics like that, or that he'd be so careless if he were scum.
I'd like to note that earlier you said:On October 15 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 22:36 EchelonTee wrote:
@1der, any reason why you are refraining from doing anything today? What's your opinion of the potato shenanigans?
The general consensus (which I agree with) is that one of da0ud or prplhz should be lynched. Personally, I think da0ud is more likely scum. The lynch mechanic itself has too much randomness to it for us to make a proper plan. At this point I have no intention of hiding. If I turn up with the potato, da0ud will be my first choice. Beyond that, I'd be looking for scummy things from other players.
Things like MMT wanting us to ignore ON's flip to prove prplhz or da0ud being scum. They were both out in the first round. Other than the known information of scum flipping, it is extremely difficult to demonstrate scum motive for them when they are already safe from the lynch day1. The bulk of my read on da0ud revolves around his interaction with ON's situation.
But apart from that, it's time to address your first point, and it's time to really dig deep into those discussion questions, to look at what the author of the book that is Mementoss's filter was trying to say with his posts. And so
A Tale of Two Mementi
Here is Mementoss "actively berating us for not actively pushing scumreads" - + Show Spoiler +On October 12 2012 03:45 Mementoss wrote:
@Hopeless stop defending yourself and give us your two best scum reads or your view of the matchups and who you are thinking of voting On October 15 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote:
It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in the thread and is like sup d0ad and prplhz scum. Without giving much reason. Its killing the discussion. Also holding the potato until you think its about to explode than passing it is a bad idea, cause really you have NO idea when its going to explode. I think you should just pass the potato to your scum read ASAP.
The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad.
That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, NOTE THAT LAST PARAGRAPH OF THIS POST, WHICH WILL APPEAR AGAIN On October 15 2012 21:01 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 20:55 kushm4sta wrote:On October 15 2012 20:34 prplhz wrote:
i'm reading up on the thread and then i'll tell you who i'm going to give the potato when i know it
then i'll wait until i think the potato is about to blow and then i'll give it to him No prpl that wasn't the deal. We gave you the potato because we think you are scum, not because we trust your opinion. You keep it until you convince us otherwise. The only person town can agree for you to give it to is daoud. If you give it to some town you are only prolonging this game because we will lynch the fuck out of you first chance we get. No kush stop shutting down discussion. If hes town why the fuck would he hold on to an explosive potato. On October 15 2012 21:27 Mementoss wrote:
Work Time now, so I don't have time to explain. Hopefully will before the potato blows
I would MUCH rather lynch d0ad over prplhz. If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum. But guess what? Townies are wrong most of the time. They don't have the information like scum. They can't manufacturer reads based on this information. That looks like what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact.
Also, to everyone saying lolz da0d/ prplhz pass between eachother. (kush) I want a detailed post on why you think they are both scum. Including stuff that doesn't have to do with ON flipping scum. Also think if you had the potato and you knew you were town. Why the fuck would you listen to anyone else or hold the potato because someone told you to? Holding the potato as town makes no sense. Holding the potato as scum, makes more sense to get town cred. Telling people what they have do with the potato without a good reason, or they will be lynched is complete scum motivation. If I had the potato, I would not hold that thing a second longer than I had to, and would be putting it on my top scum read, not someone elses. Why? You know your own alignment and no one elses. You can only trust yourself at that point. On October 15 2012 21:38 Mementoss wrote:
Before I go kush how are your actions today town or benefitting the town, how can you be this confident to kill all discussion?
People. Go re-read kush. again on kush to stop "killing discussion," which I'm giving him credit for as a "stop jerking around and hunt scum"
Here is Mementoss's own thought on what he tried to do D2:On October 16 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 08:23 austinmcc wrote:gg prplhz. On October 16 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote:
kush could be scum as well This is still not contributing anything useful... at least I tried to get people off the tunnelling da0d and prplhz all day and wasting the day. I tried to get people to pass the potato around so that this wouldn't happen. I may not have had time to read through everything and flesh out some big thoughts. But I was trying to tell people to get off them and pass the potato. Without the potato passing people didn't have to do anything.
we let hiro do nothing
we let kush do nothing and "plan" the rest of the games lynches
you'd think ET who had a townie status by almost all would do something other than lolz prplhz scum and post a picturegod damn. The funny thing is in a mini its more than likely all these guys are scum. so anti town. oh well, lets learn from it and have a better day 2. I will look into hiro and kush specifcally before nights end. I doubt scum will want to kill me. But just incase.
EVERYONE READ THOSE. LOOK AT ALL THE TIMES MEMENTOSS WANTS US TO STOP TALKING ABOUT PRPLHZ/DA0UD. LOOK AT ALL THE TIMES WE SHOULD BE SCUMHUNTING. LOOK AT HOW EVERYONE NEEDS TO WRITE UP WHY PRPLHZ AND DA0UD IS SCUM.
Man, mementoss is one townie mo-fo berating us like that.
But, what is mementoss doing himself?
Mementoss scumhunting - + Show Spoiler +Early D1 we get thoughts on all matchups. Late D1, when ON at risk, we get On October 13 2012 22:53 Mementoss wrote:
Also ET I know you explained it but its still fucking weird that you LAST MINUTE dropped all your votes on ON, after expecting him for a modkill, not having a read on him. And having a scum read on hopeless all of the first 2 cycles, you save him last minute.
Not sure which way I will be voting today yet. On October 15 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote:
It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in the thread and is like sup d0ad and prplhz scum. Without giving much reason. Its killing the discussion. Also holding the potato until you think its about to explode than passing it is a bad idea, cause really you have NO idea when its going to explode. I think you should just pass the potato to your scum read ASAP.
The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad.
That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, In the same post where he first says we need to not just discuss prplhz/da0ud, he says he needs to reread filters cuz he doesn't want to just say that. He wants to do MORE. On October 15 2012 21:38 Mementoss wrote:
Before I go kush how are your actions today town or benefitting the town, how can you be this confident to kill all discussion?
People. Go re-read kush. People, go re-read kush. Why? I dunno. Does he think kush is scum? I dunno. Look at this post. It's wishy-washy. He is intimating that kush is scum, without taking a hard stance and saying so. On October 16 2012 05:11 Mementoss wrote:
I take back thinking prplhz being town. Him trying to kill ET has no town motivation and the fact he can't even explain why is even worse. Only thing I can think of is prplhz trying to kill ET before he is inevitely lynched?
Things that still make me think hes town. He's not trying to push the case on me so that the lynch targets extend from him and da0d to him da0d and me. I thought prplhz was town. Not he's trying to kill ET, so he's scum. But here are some things that make me think he's town. WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY. Note that mementoss STILL hasn't told us about what he found rereading prplhz/da0ud, he STILL hasn't given us a scum read. At this point, mementoss is berating people for sitting on prplhz and da0ud, saying we should hunt, but HE IS NOT DOING THAT HIMSELF. He's maybe-scummy on kush. He's townie-scummy-townie on prplhz. After I call out mementoss again: On October 16 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote:
Also I did read the filters I couldn't find anything really that damming. I'm not gunna make up a case for the fact of making up a case. Oh look. I reread the filters, "couldn't find anything damning." No specifics. Not gonna say whether he has town reads on prplhz and da0ud or anything, just that he won't make up a case. WISHY WASHY. He won't make a case on them...so they're town? But he just said prplhz attacked ET made him rethink his townread. On October 16 2012 06:55 Mementoss wrote:
EBWOP: However, I was at work will re-read and see what I can dig up. I made some quick notes. I'll reread again. On October 16 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote:
kush could be scum as well Thanks. Super informative. Why? How does he feel about prplhz and da0ud? WE STILL DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW. HE'S STILL DONE NO SCUMHUNTING. This is the most scumhunting he's done D2...that kush might be scum, with no reasons given.
OKAY. TIME TO PULL BACK AGAIN. Mementoss wants everyone to give clear thoughts as to why prplhz and da0ud are scum, wants to generate extra discussion. However, HE:- never gives clear thoughts as to them
- says he doesn't find anyone scummy, keeps needing to check filters, gives wishy washy reads
- "kush might be scum" with no specifics, that's his contribution
THAT is the tale of two mementi. YES, he is "berating" town, or harping at people for not scumhunting or giving clear thoughts. Yet he is not scumhunting, and "kush maybe scum" and "prplhz was town, but is scum, but here's why he might be town" are not clear thoughts.
What happens AFTER D2? AH! Look!On October 16 2012 20:27 Mementoss wrote:
also I know im all over the place a bit as far as reads go but im not completely sure what to think after what was day 2. Gotta re-evaluate da0d. As well as read into kush/hiro/hopeless.
Hey guys, I still don't know what my reads are. I need to re-evaluate da0ud. I need to read 3 people.On October 16 2012 20:35 Mementoss wrote:
To clarify I'm not saying I think ET is def scum, or that I want to lynch him. I'm just saying my town read on him has dropped to null and anyone else with a town read on him should re-consider or re-read him.
I don't think ET is scum. I had a town read on him, now it's null. Everyone should re-read him. Again, wishy washy wishy washy.
On October 17 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote:
fuck im not going to have enough time to do hiro and kush
I have looked at some filters, but out of the 4 I said I'd look at I only have time for 2
On October 17 2012 07:51 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 07:39 kushm4sta wrote:On October 17 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote:
fuck im not going to have enough time to do hiro and kush haha if mmt thinks you are scum you are almost definitely town. hai now I caught 66% of the scum team day 1 in aperture gym time now Hiro Hopeless austin kush, can't all be scum. I like the above djos points on da0d at the moment. I will have to re-assess my case on Austin based on his more recent actions, scum austin does a decent job at looking town though. Short version in my noodle before gym and nights end. Hopeless's faking scum thing made no sense to me had me thinking he was scum for a while and then his lurking all of day 2 makes him look worse. Kush's day 1 play seemed townie, but his day 2 play had scum motivation all over it. Shutting down discussion while being active in the thread, and planning the lynch for the next day. Also making an anti-town potato plan. Hiro is lurking hard I don't remember what he did day 1 to be honest will have to revisit how he voted. Didn't do anything day 2 other than hold the potato way too long day 2, to start day 2 off on a lulll and shut down discussion, than ultimately pass it to a planning. Austins more recent posting seems to be getting everyone active and trying to pick up a town that lost a shit load of momentum, im willing to consider he may be town, but this guy is tricky. I think we have better more secure lynches tomorrow though because hes a good asset to the town, and there are people that seem to be more likely to flip scum. This was all in like 10 minutes so if I fucked anythng up my bad.
- I caught 66% of the scum team D1 in aperture. This is correct. Has he done that this game? No, he's been wishy washy as hell and not scumhunting.
- Here are tiny tiny one-sentence thoughts on Kush/Hiro/Hopeless/Austin.
- Kush D1 plan seemed townie. His D2 play is scum motivated. NO CONCLUSION. DOES NOT SAY KUSH IS MAFIA. WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY
- Hiro is lurking. I don't remember what he did, I have to go look at his voting. NO CONCLUSION. DOES NOT SAY HIRO IS SCUMMY OR TOWNIE.
- Austin recent posting is townie. But he's tricky. Austin is a good asset to town and there are people more likely to be scum. NO HARD CONCLUSION. DOES NOT SAY I'M TOWN, DOES NOT SAY I'M SCUM, WISHY WASHY
Read mementoss asking town to not just talk about prplhz/da0ud. Then read mementoss's actual contributions D2. Apoligies for not scumhunting. Never having time. Not once giving a very clear read. He made a half-assed case D2, it was on me, and he thinks I might be town and doesn't seem to want to lynch me, the only guy he's made a case on. Mementoss is asking town to take actions that he never takes himself. Mementoss puts NO effort into forcing town to do what he wants, and puts NO effort into scumhunting himself that I see
Mementoss is a better townie than that. Mementoss writes cases, votes, has reads, he pushes people. Here, he SAID townie stuff, but didnt' DO townie stuff, and didn't PUSH town to do the townie things he wanted.
Mementoss is scum this game.
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Why is all this important? Why does it matter? Mementoss said a lot of townie stuff, he tols us to stop tunnelling prplhz/da0ud, and that's good, so he's town, right?
NO. NO NO NO NO NO.
There's an Ace quote somewhere in a newbie guide or a post-thread wrap-up or something. It's a quote I like, a rule I've used (but I can never seem to dig up and find). But basically, actions count for more than posts. And if POSTS look townie, whereas the actual actions conflict with them, then the posts are fabricated. A townie doesn't just make townie smelling posts, a townie ACTS on those.
Mementoss made townie smelling posts asking thread to give real reasons why prplhz/da0ud were scum.
Mementoss never gave real reasons D2 why ... ANYONE was scum (except his thoughts on me, which he then backed off of).
Mementoss never gave thoughts on da0ud after rereading filter. Mementoss's thoughts on prplhz were townie-scummy-townie.
He has been wishy washy all game on everything since the first couple rounds.
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On October 18 2012 02:56 thrawn2112 wrote:
Austin what do you think about da0? He qualifies for a lot of the same nk points you made about mementoss although he's way more in the spotlight.
Right now, some of da0's play reminds me of how I started and played in LV when I was town. I'm finding him townie based on that although that's...poor logic.
I keep coming back to that set of posts aimed at ET/Hopeless/ON. Right now, I don't think those are fabricated. I'm not looking at da0ud for scum, and those posts as fabricated, unless we're really running low on options later on.
He entered the thread very joke-y and his posts stood out (aliens, mini-scum), which I wouldn't expect from first-time/new scum. Those ET/ON/Hopeless posts don't feel forced. He super duper actively BUDDIED people D1, which someone should have been telling him not to do (although he did stop, again, a consideration ONLY if he's left after a while and we don't have good scum targets). I do not think da0ud is scum
As to the NKs.
Mementoss is a dangerous townie for scum to leave up. I do not know if da0ud is a dangerous townie for scum to leave
up. If I'm scum, again, I'm going to try and somewhat push mementoss based on Sandroba's read, ET's read, my case, da0ud's case. There are votes there, he can be mislynched, so I'd be going for it.
I do not know if da0ud is dangerous as town. Scum probably don't either. So I don't draw the same read off of that.
And again, no, I'm not scum. I am pushing mementoss because he's scum this game, not to shoot for a mislynch.
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Austin, do you realize there is a great chance there is more than one scum in this game?
Ausin, do you realize that in in 3 days you have made 3 separate cases on me? Some of the points say that I don't scum hunt. yet you yourself are not scum hunting, you are putting 3 cases on me, you never hunted for scum outside my filter.
You know what takes away from scum hunting? Defending yourself every active day. I guess when I get home I will not be getting into analysis I will be taking all day reading your wall of text and the rest of the day trying to actually reply to it.
Austin do everyone a favour and make a case on someone else. Unless your tunnelling me so hard, that you actually think I am both (assuming 2 left) remaining scum members? How is what your doing town?
also I can see a huge bold point at the bottom that I can answer right now. Getting people off of what I think is a mislynch/ creating discussion, is a pretty good asset to town imo.
austin da0d?
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i don't think an austin/da0 scum team is possible
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austin if you are town somehow, take off those scum shaded glasses everytime you read my posts.
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austin tell me about your vote sharing at the beginning... just go into detail about exactly why you decided to do it
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On October 18 2012 03:15 Mementoss wrote:
Austin, do you realize there is a great chance there is more than one scum in this game?
Ausin, do you realize that in in 3 days you have made 3 separate cases on me? Some of the points say that I don't scum hunt. yet you yourself are not scum hunting, you are putting 3 cases on me, you never hunted for scum outside my filter.
You know what takes away from scum hunting? Defending yourself every active day. I guess when I get home I will not be getting into analysis I will be taking all day reading your wall of text and the rest of the day trying to actually reply to it.
Austin do everyone a favour and make a case on someone else. Unless your tunnelling me so hard, that you actually think I am both (assuming 2 left) remaining scum members? How is what your doing town?
also I can see a huge bold point at the bottom that I can answer right now. Getting people off of what I think is a mislynch/ creating discussion, is a pretty good asset to town imo.
austin da0d?
I think you're one of our probably two remaining scum players. You're the person I'm most sure of, so you're the person I'm going to get lynched. If you look at my games, when I have a strong scumread, I tunnel that read.
Right now, we're making lists. Scummiest to towniest. There's wiggle room there. There's room for people to drop you a few spots, bump me up a few spots, this lynch is much more malleable than normal. I think that works against town. Already we've seen people who have 2 or 3 scumreads and 2 or 3 townreads, and a mush of people in the middle.
That mush can be manipulated. That mush shows that people don't have strong reads on some folks. That mush shows that we need a common candidate that we want to lynch. You just happen to be the guy that we should agree on.
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@Austin
Don't oversell town memetoss. So he got 60% of the scumteam d1 aperature. It's called luck.
Also he probably put more time into that game.
This game it looks like he is not putting that much time into the game, and I think that explains a lot of what you would consider scumtells. He is keeping up with the thread and writing his comments every now and then. That is what I do when I don't really have a lot of time. It looks very similar to how memetoss is playing.
That quote saying look at how he acts not what he says: well you are criticizing his words not his actions. His words have been unsure and his actions have followed suit.
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I guess the REAL questions for me is, would scumaustinmcc put in this much effort to fabric a case if he was scum?
Would scumaustin put himself completely out there all game knowing I was town, what would he do after I flipped? All this just to get me mislynched?
Austin please put up some analysis about your 2nd scum read, so I can have some substance to have a slightly unbiased day 3 look at you.
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Alright austin, I know you think im scum, do you agree or disagree with my analysis on Hopeless and the Hopeless vs ON situation. I know somewhere in your fitlter you brought up that this is an important matchup but never went any further to discuss it.
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On October 18 2012 03:20 thrawn2112 wrote:
austin tell me about your vote sharing at the beginning... just go into detail about exactly why you decided to do it
I had a bunch of votes left. I wanted to get the most out of them that I could. Just putting them on a candidate is nice, but I wanted to DO something with them, make them work for town. I figured sharing them is one way to draw more thoughts/reads out, and to see how people use them.
So, I want to give some votes away, and I want to do it in a way that gets information. I'll give out votes in exchange for reads. A town read, a scum read. That's a nice balance, and if I give any votes to scum it forces them to call someone townie, which is kind of nice. D1, as part of this weird system, I don't expect scum to call a scumbuddy townie, because they don't know wtf I'm doing. I figure they'll be less likely to try to manipulate what I'm doing, more likely to have to give some real reads for fear I'm up to something.
But I still don't want to give votes to scum. So I need some kind of criteria to determine who I want votes from. Best way to not give votes to scum (from the information I had)? Give em to townreads. You seemed townie, and had been relatively vocal on some players, but you were pretty caught up in the people actually in R3 and R4. By giving votes to you, I forced you to look at a broader scope of players, at the whole game, and make some reads on players who were already safe.
kush both looked relatively townie to me and...I want to encourage good posting. I much prefer Looney Lynching kush to Liquid City kush. In part, I gave votes to him to encourage the change in posting. Call it promoting a readable thread, call it promoting a good town atmosphere, whatever. kush was also mostly concerned with R3 and R4, so again, I wanted people to look beyond those rounds and de-theme the game, play like it were more normal and everyone was at play.
So I both was trying to get two town reads to look at the broader game, to not limit themselves to just R3 and R4 players (no way did all of our scum make it that far). And I wanted to see what your reads would be AND what you'd do with the votes.
That felt like a much better use of my votes than dropping them ALL on a single player, when it was lurker vs. maybe-town-sandroba-who-isn't-doing-much. Neither person was super scummy to me, like I said. So I'd rather make my votes work for town in a different way.
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On October 18 2012 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
i don't think an austin/da0 scum team is possible
why, austin has been defending da0 constantly, and da0 has had austin as a scum read, but it was always 3rd or 4th on his list, never a contender to be lynched in da0s regards, common thing to do with scum mates.
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On October 18 2012 03:31 Mementoss wrote:
Alright austin, I know you think im scum, do you agree or disagree with my analysis on Hopeless and the Hopeless vs ON situation. I know somewhere in your fitlter you brought up that this is an important matchup but never went any further to discuss it.
Mostly agree. I even deleted a post calling everyone out because of your post.
I could not understand this morning why everyone acted like this was some new thing that had just been discovered. It was why ET was probably town. I asked Hiro a question about it earlier, because he said something that made me think he didn't udnerstand what had happened last second with hopeless/ON/ET. It felt as if that bit was common knowledge already, and I, of course thinking you're scum, couldn't understand why this was neat that you'd gone and found this information.
Either it hadn't been discussed as much as I thought it had, or people need to read the thread harder.
Right now, because of the hopeless1der/ON vote, I do not think hopeless1der is scum. I've already said that, and I also noted some bits of his D1 filter that I found townie.
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On October 18 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
i don't think an austin/da0 scum team is possible why, austin has been defending da0 constantly, and da0 has had austin as a scum read, but it was always 3rd or 4th on his list, never a contender to be lynched in da0s regards, common thing to do with scum mates.
because I don't think that scum austin would defend scum da0 so hard
@austin that is a very believable response
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On October 18 2012 03:37 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:On October 18 2012 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
i don't think an austin/da0 scum team is possible why, austin has been defending da0 constantly, and da0 has had austin as a scum read, but it was always 3rd or 4th on his list, never a contender to be lynched in da0s regards, common thing to do with scum mates. because I don't think that scum austin would defend scum da0 so hard @austin that is a very believable response
Mostly because it's real...
Un-theme the game. D1 those votes were useful as a tool we don't usually have in a normal game, they're EXTRA good if you put them to work.
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EPT
