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On June 08 2011 07:23 OriginalName wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 03:51 Kavdragon wrote:
OriginalName, where are you?
I feel like that's been the theme of your play this game. Say one thing, do the opposite. Why are you not defending yourself? School, where I have no access to TL.
I believe that your posting history from yesterday confirms this, but it doesn't explain why you didn't respond yesterday evening. Now that you are here, care to contribute?
On June 08 2011 06:53 stefftastiq wrote:
@Kav
Thats one excellent post sir - some people are just able to write things crystal clear!
on the "pressure vote" issue - right now all votes are for one player - and my vote for youngminii which i wanted to do to pressure him, in the fashion you mention - shouldn't town spread out their votes more, try to pressure more players at the same time (or is this a good idea?) - its pretty easy for the scum to hide when only one player is a target at once - they are probably just going with it watching town team up on their own (maybe not in the ON case)
also this could probably lead to more content being put into the game - maybe then it would be less of posting just to post, without no real content - cause there probably are limits to the amount of analysis and conclusions to be made out of a fairly restricted amount of posts as far as i see it.
@youngminiii
i still think you left your defence out - why did you really say "yo if sinani flips green - im green" (short summary of your post) - cause thats obviously superscummy, and if you really were town, theres no real good reason to say it anyways?
Pressuring other people is a VERY good idea. There should not only be one lynch candidate. However, you need to be able to post a reason why people should vote someone. In this case you would need to build a case against YM, and if it's strong enough then people will follow it and vote for him. In order to pressure people you'll need to convince others that you are right.
On June 08 2011 06:35 youngminii wrote:
By the way
Kavdragon is very good at this game, IF ON flips green/blue can i ask the detective to check him? I'm sure Kav will agree to this if he's not scum. Thanks.
I'm ok, not "very good". Just look at my past two games as town. And it would be nice to get checked, but obviously I know that the check would be better put to use on someone else. In any case, I'll leave it up to the DT.
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Palmer
Since you guys want an alternate lynch target I give you one.
First and foremost:
On June 08 2011 01:15 Palmar wrote:
Very little discussion going on at the moment.
I agree that OriginalName is very scummy at the moment. The main thing that sticks out to me is him insisting he always plays bad town. I always find it very suspicious when people play the "I'm bad" card (or the more popular alternative, "I'm new") as their defense.
Instead of commenting on some meta, why not step up your game and actually provide an alternative. If you are town you now have the responsibility to explain why you are not scum, and try to tell us why you should not be lynched.
##Vote OriginalName
On June 06 2011 09:14 Palmar wrote:
The lack of discussion is slightly disturbing.
Sinani206 hadn't contributed anything, but his death seems to come too easily... I don't know.
I'm going to start with something I learned from Kav, clearly making it known that your reading the thread and then doing nothing.
Palmer on two occasions has pointed out a lack of disscussion and then clearly does not add anything else. In the first case he just parrots Kavdragon on my first notion of defense and the second he once again points out the obvious.
On June 06 2011 10:43 Palmar wrote:
I think sinani's death would've been too quiet.
##Unvote
##Vote OriginalName
Where's the reasoning behind this? That is filler bullshit to climb onto a wagon, at least when I stayed there I gave my reasons.
Most of his posts are not much longer than this and hes asking for more disscussion. Theres a Contradiction he asks and never gives.
On June 07 2011 18:26 Palmar wrote:
I still don't feel right about youngminii, voting against a townie lynch doesn't absolve you. if ON flips green it'll much less absolve you.
ON's defense is really shitty in my opinion, claiming that he's always bad at town is just... not how you should defend yourself.
I need to re-read a bit, will have a big post coming up later.
Still no big post up, parroting about my defense. etc.
This is the entirety of this recent posting history, im going to leave the prior incident out for now.
You guys can make the call on him,
But my call is SCUM
##Vote Palmer
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Originalname, what do you think of youngmiini and kavdragon?
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I will have a good post up before the vote, don't worry about it.
I thought I already explained the reasoning, but luckily you managed to miss the post, because actually including it in your analysis would hurt it.
Here's a link to help you: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9639518
I couldn't finish up my post today, I will post it tomorrow, but I'm travelling to norway. I will probably only be online around 4-8 hours before the vote. I will mostly not be able to be online from now and until evening (20:00-ish GMT) tomorrow.
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Sorry guys, busy day. First, a defense: I spent my early game pressuring. I pressured a lot, probably too much and too spread out. When discussing lurkers, and lurkers only, I suggested lynching the least active. If we're going to lynch an inactive, we should lynch the most inactive.
About Sinani: prplhz seems to think that his analysis was the reason for my vote. It wasn't. sinani played poorly and did not post content until pressured heavily. To me, that was very scummy. Changing one's mind is not a scumtell, as far as I know.
Yes, i was offline for the lynch and forgot to change my vote. It was a mistake. I came up with a plan and didn't follow through. I admit it. That's a bit scummy, I'll agree.
The plan with the cop check was not. It was the only way I could think of to ensure that it wasn't a mafia being clever and tricking us.
Second post about the lynch going up soon.
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A page or two back, stefftastiq made a post that I really don't like. My responses in green
On June 07 2011 17:58 stefftastiq wrote:
OriginalName might be scummy - good points in the posts above - Im still suspicious about youngminiii tho - but he has atleast stepped up.
this is indecisive. He basically says "yeah, he could be scum, but so could that other guy."
About me not having written anything about prplz and dementrio is that Ive felt they have had pretty townish behaviour - Varpulis points out that pprplz started the wagon against sinani, which might be something - altho I was pretty convinced of sinani myself.
I think this is a defense about something, but the last sentence is strange. He states that prplhz starting the bandwagon might be scummy, but might not. again, indecisive.
ill put a pressure vote originalname for now - youngminii still second on my scummylist, what is suspicious is that if scum just "hide" in ON's vote or would they try to find another target if he really is scum?
Bandwagoning counts as pressuring now? Last part is just useless
##Vote: OriginalName
His posts in general are pretty bad. Right now I'm torn between calling him scum, and just calling him a bad townie. It could be either. The post above is making me lean scum, because it's overall too safe and noncommittal. He voted on Youngminii for "pressure,"(weak reasons) right after.
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@Varpulis
Yeah, my reasons were probably not the best - but atleast I was honest about that in my post - im suspicious about both of them - in the nextpost I also included
@youngminii
while reading back I also see that you removed Varpulis name from the list - not suspicious of him either?
Varpulis + youngmini + unichan got a little thing going on ?
Cause this is what I was suspicious about - and now you probably saw that and thought that you will fire back at one that you almost bandwagoned day1 because of my inactivity.
Then more people became more suspicious about you - and ON - new scum trio - youngminii, varpulis, ON ?
- you also try to break down my bad english - thats ok, Ill explain.
+ Show Spoiler +About me not having written anything about prplz and dementrio is that Ive felt they have had pretty townish behaviour - Varpulis points out that pprplz started the wagon against sinani, which might be something - altho I was pretty convinced of sinani myself.
this is not a defence about something - I pointed out that you said pprplz started the wagon - NOW i ofcourse see that you might have said this to draw attention to prpplz instead of yourself - which makes sense if you are scum.
the part about sinani - well - i thought he was scum, he wasnt - he didnt do -anything- to make me think otherwise, which sux (i was asleep when he claimed vet and people started thinking - voting limit is 0400 AM in Norway - im just up way to late because of inside the game tonight)
The pressurevote issue was something kavdragon discussed in his post earlier - he explained it well - i wanted to put pressure on more than one player - but it became kinda useless when there were 5 votes on ON and 1 on YM - as he didnt really seem to care - and to be honest my case were really weak, except for him saying in advance that he defended sinani - and by that he he is green.
My posts might also be bad - Im working on it
right now i think the scum is
youngminii
Varpulis
OriginalName
All three of you seem to avoid yourself as a subject - and rather try to push for votes at other players.
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On June 08 2011 10:32 stefftastiq wrote:
right now i think the scum is
youngminii
Varpulis
OriginalName
All three of you seem to avoid yourself as a subject - and rather try to push for votes at other players.
Why should I defend myself unnecessarily against bad arguments when I'm not even up for a lynch? My time is better spent finding scum than self reflecting.
Pushing for votes is how mafia is played. I scumhunt, I vote, I push to lynch the person I'm voting for if nobody else thinks that I'm right. If needed, i defend myself.
Did you miss this post? I discuss my actions and defend myself.
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@Varpulis
Why should I defend myself unnecessarily against bad arguments when I'm not even up for a lynch? My time is better spent finding scum than self reflecting.
That was exactly what I thought when i just read your post about me :[
you might just be semi-red
i would -really- like to see some thoughs about the people from unichan and dementrio which has hardly said something through the whole game.
hestmyrr had a good pretty townish post if i remember right - and dementio made one later on
but unichan - u still hiding?
#Unvote
#Vote unichan
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Also a little reason behind the vote
looking through the thread there are hardly any posts from unichan whatsoever - which makes him hard to read - he posted early on that he was on a match competition - but he returned (jeejee actually posted that he would not post until after the math comp - might be checked by random, but he also could have wondered where his scum buddy was?)
Would really like to know unichans opinion on: Varpulis, youngminii, originalename and jeejee
time to stand up unichan
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On June 08 2011 08:51 dementrio wrote:
Originalname, what do you think of youngmiini and kavdragon?
Kav is town for all the right reasons.
YoungMini i have no damn clue sometimes hes town but always I have that sneaking suspicion of scum deapite what people might want to believe about yesterday.
I still think Palmer is a better lynch.
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On June 08 2011 10:40 Varpulis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 10:32 stefftastiq wrote:
right now i think the scum is
youngminii
Varpulis
OriginalName
All three of you seem to avoid yourself as a subject - and rather try to push for votes at other players. Why should I defend myself unnecessarily against bad arguments when I'm not even up for a lynch? My time is better spent finding scum than self reflecting.
This is exactly why I haven't been responding to steff.
I'm sorry man but the arguments just don't make sense. If you pressure someone, you really do have to make it real pressure. You listed some reasons against me and then moved on. If I were scum, I could just ignore you and your accusations and be safe because you would just move on to someone else. I never felt pressured by your 'pressure' at any point during this game. I don't think you're scum though.
ON, as someone who's slated to be lynched, I feel as if your methods are a little off putting. Why are you putting on heat against Palmar when you should be defending yourself? You kind of just ignored the accusations put against you and went straight for Palmar. Perhaps you're scum and you've given up and you're trying to confuse us before you die by creating/severing a connection between you and Palmar. Perhaps you're town and you genuinely think Palmar is scum.
Defend yourself, or you will be lynched.
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My Defense:
Id like to first of all point out some similarities between today and yesterday:
-This bandwagon is being formed rediculously easily.
-Most people are sheeping of the reasons of one person.
-They will if I go through both be silly mislynches.
Im going to focus on the first point mainly.
In this case the most coherently explained and analysed non-sheeping opinion is from Kavdragon. He took what he thought to be scum and organised and presented it. He honestly succeded in scaring the metaphorical crap out of me. I dont deal with pressure well and came up with a shoddy defense.
Therefore I after I basically had the majority of town gunning for me I panicked but Ive come to realize that theres no reason it should have happenes that fast. Sure JeeJee tryed to defend me but lets face the fact that it justs looks like a scumbuddy trying to save me. However if I were scum why put that risk to try to save me? Im have the most heat on me atm if it were me Would have kept my trap shut and bussed.
I then chose to throw another lynch candidate out there. I chose to do this to try to give another option to us but I did not explain that at all as you can clearly see.
So now I really have no idea what to do, I'm having a hard enough time articulating what im trying to say at the moment, as such if there is anything specific youd like addressed please ask. I have absolutely nothing to hide from town.
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@Varpulis
I didn't say that my analysis was the reason for your vote, I am saying that you discarded my analysis and then later when the bandwagon was about to get going, you used the things I had concluded in my analysis as a reason to vote for sinani206.
Next you say that you were, conveniently, offline after your plan and "forgot to change [your] vote". But your plan was not about remembering anything, your plan was that if a lot of other people wanted to change their vote then you'd also like the option to change your vote.
This seems like a very weak defense and it seems like you are making stuff up. Townies don't need to make stuff up, they just need to state why they acted as they did and not try to make up/remember some lie.
And then again, the cop part of your plan was terrible. I'd say that it was worse than Palmar's original plan, you want a cop to check sinani206 and then try to defend him out of the blue. Well if that will not paint a huge target on someone's back for the scum to aim at I don't know what. And nothing is EVER confirmed unless you're scum (or cop).
@youngminii
On June 08 2011 06:32 youngminii wrote:
[...]
@Prplhz: Your pressure against Varpulis is stupid. None of those reasons are scumworthy and you are guilty of the last line of reasoning yourself. I kind of don't like how you're just completely avoiding voting for ON, but I mean if you both really were scum you'd probably be trying to lynch an actual lynch candidate instead of randomly pressuring Varpulis.
[...]
I'd like to see you make a case against an actual lynch candidate since, unapparent to me, Varpulis is not scum at all.
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I'm a bit more reluctant to jump on the bandwagon this time - we all saw how the last pressure bandwagon turned out. That being said, OriginalName's defense isn't very strong. He has enough votes on him for pressure now, and they probably won't be taken off any time soon looking through his recent posts. He goes for Palmar, who isn't really on anybody's shit list - it looks like he's just going for a target for others to bandwagon. Like what happened with sinani, he's using the "weak" and "filler" post attack to try to get others to agree. However the argument isn't mounted as clearly as the one against sinani was, and clearly no one is buying it.
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On June 08 2011 17:04 unichan wrote:
I'm a bit more reluctant to jump on the bandwagon this time - we all saw how the last pressure bandwagon turned out. That being said, OriginalName's defense isn't very strong. He has enough votes on him for pressure now, and they probably won't be taken off any time soon looking through his recent posts. He goes for Palmar, who isn't really on anybody's shit list - it looks like he's just going for a target for others to bandwagon. Like what happened with sinani, he's using the "weak" and "filler" post attack to try to get others to agree. However the argument isn't mounted as clearly as the one against sinani was, and clearly no one is buying it.
Trying to mount another bandwagon is actually the only sensible ON could do as town. Looking at it from this perspective, he realizes he has nothing that clears him, so his best defense is trying to get somebody else lynched; He knows he's town and therefore any lynch helps town more than his lynch.
However why Palmar? Why not youngmiini? ON says he's been suspicious of YM for a while, he's been a vocal supporter of the argument against him and more importantly there are already other people that seem ready to support this vote. In fact I think youngmiini would make the most sense even if ON was scum.
The Palmar vote makes me think one of two things: either originalname has given up and is not trying, or he is scum along with youngmiini.
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On June 08 2011 18:12 dementrio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 17:04 unichan wrote:
I'm a bit more reluctant to jump on the bandwagon this time - we all saw how the last pressure bandwagon turned out. That being said, OriginalName's defense isn't very strong. He has enough votes on him for pressure now, and they probably won't be taken off any time soon looking through his recent posts. He goes for Palmar, who isn't really on anybody's shit list - it looks like he's just going for a target for others to bandwagon. Like what happened with sinani, he's using the "weak" and "filler" post attack to try to get others to agree. However the argument isn't mounted as clearly as the one against sinani was, and clearly no one is buying it. Trying to mount another bandwagon is actually the only sensible ON could do as town. Looking at it from this perspective, he realizes he has nothing that clears him, so his best defense is trying to get somebody else lynched; He knows he's town and therefore any lynch helps town more than his lynch. However why Palmar? Why not youngmiini? ON says he's been suspicious of YM for a while, he's been a vocal supporter of the argument against him and more importantly there are already other people that seem ready to support this vote. In fact I think youngmiini would make the most sense even if ON was scum. The Palmar vote makes me think one of two things: either originalname has given up and is not trying, or he is scum along with youngmiini.
Because I STILL dont have a remotely solid reading on YM. I picked someone who I had a much more solid read on.
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@youngminii
I'm sorry man but the arguments just don't make sense. If you pressure someone, you really do have to make it real pressure. You listed some reasons against me and then moved on. If I were scum, I could just ignore you and your accusations and be safe because you would just move on to someone else. I never felt pressured by your 'pressure' at any point during this game. I don't think you're scum though.
Thats why i kept on asking why you really pre-claimed your "innosence" when saying if sinani is green im green thingy - i tried to pressure - didnt seem like the rest of the town found that as scummy as I did - so i let it go, for now.
Your "defences" are just saying that the analysis or the points beeing made against you are bad - which is the easy way of course... cause you seem to get off the hook by just saying it.
Also Im not moving on, im just adding more people the the scumbox, i hink both you and ON are scummy - im insecure about varpulis, and unichan hasnt really got anything to say if hes scum or town - cause hes not posting anything. Thats what I'm trying to get him to do.
as for the rest, prplz, palmar, kav and dementrio and jeejee - theres absolutely no way to beeing certain that these guys are town - but as for now, it seems like atleast some of them are helping town in a good way, but ofcourse that could be easy to fake if you know townies are a bit confused :p
I'll be checking in after work!
and
@Palmar - welcome to Norway? :-D
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United States22154 Posts
Day 2 Vote count
OriginalName(5)
Varpulis
youngminii
Kavdragon
stefftastiq
dementrio
Palmar
youngminii(0)
stefftastiq
Varpulis (1)
prplhz
Palmar (1)
OriginalName
unichan(1)
stefftastiq
10 hours left in the day, still missing votes from JeeJee and unichan. OriginalName currently leading with 5 votes. If I missed any votes don't hesitate to let me know
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EPT
