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On September 30 2013 01:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 01:42 NeoIllusions wrote:On September 30 2013 01:40 KissBlade wrote:On September 30 2013 01:35 NeoIllusions wrote:On September 30 2013 01:24 overt wrote:On September 30 2013 01:02 KissBlade wrote:
Royal needs to play the way they did against OMG to even stand a chance.
And mid actually lost lane all four games regardless of the matchup. Game 2 made especially no sense because xpeke came into lane with an extra dorans + flask + pots + 1 ward and yet still managed to be behind 40 cs by ten minutes as ahri vs Ori. Whites isn't even top 3 mids in China either. Wish we could've seen OMG play Gambit. As it stands EU mids could be over hyped, xPeke could be over hyped, or else xPeke choked really hard. Also people are massively underestimating Royal just like they did in Quarters and Semis. Finals will be close imo. Having watched xPeke over the past two years, I think the hype is warranted. That said, he choked hard against Wh1t3zZ. Compare his performance against Hai or during the EU LCS. He played levels below what is expected of him at the Semis. I don't think it was nerves either, just poor adaptation to Royal's playstyle. Yango also mentioned this and I definitely agree, Royal did a much better job researching Fnatic than vice versa. From drafting to lane selection. I thought there's something to be said about the fact that he was generally matched up against weaker laners so ended up looking better as a byproduct. He can consistently stand up to Alex Ich and Bjergsen, who are the strongest players for those respective teams. I don't see how anyone can say xPeke's a bad laner. What's the metric here? Faker? EU mids are categorically overrated TBH. When people started floating the "Korea has the best tops" thing, people felt the need to "balance" it by saying stuff like "EU has the best mids" and "NA has strong ADCS" (back before people realized, you know, China) and this myth persisted. EU mids are far from the best imo. Personally I'd rank Korean and Chinese mids both far above EU mids, both at the very top and the "average" laner. Maybe xPeke did underperform, but if EU really had the "best mids," the underperforming top laner shouldn't be getting completely wrecked in lane against an average mid laner from another region ~_~
Were you not watching LoL in S2? "EU best mids" precedes the S2 Finals and the "KR best tops", the fact that things changed doesn't mean it was never true and it's just something people made up to make them feel better about their region.
Edit: typo
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I actually think jungle is the strongest role in EU atm. It's very close to mid but based off worlds performance I think the junglers have been more important.
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On September 30 2013 01:54 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 01:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On September 30 2013 01:42 NeoIllusions wrote:On September 30 2013 01:40 KissBlade wrote:On September 30 2013 01:35 NeoIllusions wrote:On September 30 2013 01:24 overt wrote:On September 30 2013 01:02 KissBlade wrote:
Royal needs to play the way they did against OMG to even stand a chance.
And mid actually lost lane all four games regardless of the matchup. Game 2 made especially no sense because xpeke came into lane with an extra dorans + flask + pots + 1 ward and yet still managed to be behind 40 cs by ten minutes as ahri vs Ori. Whites isn't even top 3 mids in China either. Wish we could've seen OMG play Gambit. As it stands EU mids could be over hyped, xPeke could be over hyped, or else xPeke choked really hard. Also people are massively underestimating Royal just like they did in Quarters and Semis. Finals will be close imo. Having watched xPeke over the past two years, I think the hype is warranted. That said, he choked hard against Wh1t3zZ. Compare his performance against Hai or during the EU LCS. He played levels below what is expected of him at the Semis. I don't think it was nerves either, just poor adaptation to Royal's playstyle. Yango also mentioned this and I definitely agree, Royal did a much better job researching Fnatic than vice versa. From drafting to lane selection. I thought there's something to be said about the fact that he was generally matched up against weaker laners so ended up looking better as a byproduct. He can consistently stand up to Alex Ich and Bjergsen, who are the strongest players for those respective teams. I don't see how anyone can say xPeke's a bad laner. What's the metric here? Faker? EU mids are categorically overrated TBH. When people started floating the "Korea has the best tops" thing, people felt the need to "balance" it by saying stuff like "EU has the best mids" and "NA has strong ADCS" (back before people realized, you know, China) and this myth persisted. EU mids are far from the best imo. Personally I'd rank Korean and Chinese mids both far above EU mids, both at the very top and the "average" laner. Maybe xPeke did underperform, but if EU really had the "best mids," the underperforming top laner shouldn't be getting completely wrecked in lane against an average mid laner from another region ~_~ haha, I never actually thought about it like but I think you're on to something. NA had Doublelift and miraculously, our ADC were international caliber? idk. I actually think Support is our (NA) best role now. Mid might be EU's best role but I don't think they are head and shoulders above KR/CN's best Mids.
Who do we have in supports that are decent? GodWater and Xpecial? who else? Everyone else is pretty bad now-a-days.
NA just lacking in talent everywhere. If anything ADC is still NA's strength (obviously not CN tier, but purty good still).
Our mids are butts.
Our top laners are butts.
Our junglers are okay, Xmithie and Meteos pretty good (but junglers have always been fairly even among the regions).
On September 30 2013 01:59 Fusilero wrote:
I actually think jungle is the strongest role in EU atm. It's very close to mid but based off worlds performance I think the junglers have been more important.
Diamond has always been an innovating junglers, so that didn't change much coming into Worlds.
in Fnatic vs Royal, Cyanide did amazing, but with that being said. Lucky was ridiculously underwhelming that entire series (except when it came to smiting).
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Isn't Mancloud considered to be really good, even for international standards? I heard Loco say that, but I'm not sure if that's the general opinion.
For ADC, Wildturtle got a lot of respect from people/casters all around the world. I'm not sure if Doublelift is still as good as he was in his prime, but these two seem like a solid choice. The thing that really fucks any statement about "good NA AD carries" over is that Zuna is on a top 3 team. 
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On September 30 2013 02:02 UmberBane wrote:
Isn't Mancloud considered to be really good, even for international standards? I heard Loco say that, but I'm not sure if that's the general opinion.
Cloudtemplar spoke incredibly highly of mancloud on an international level, though it may be bias as he also said he played with mancloud loads when Koreans were on NA.
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On September 30 2013 02:02 UmberBane wrote:
Isn't Mancloud considered to be really good, even for international standards? I heard Loco say that, but I'm not sure if that's the general opinion.
Mancloud probably world class, but not anything special.
I'd still put quite a few midlaners in the world above Mancloud.
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The team fight positioning from macloud was really underwhelming at the group stage.
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On September 30 2013 02:06 ExoFun wrote:
The team fight positioning from macloud Vulcun was really underwhelming at the group stage.
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Faker lose to white mid in the finals
Everyone in tl: I KNOW IT , FAKER IS OVERRATED AS HELL i know it since d1 look im righto rit?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
what? you are probably the only guy who feels that way. maybe other chinese ultranationalists out there
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Xpeke lose lane game 2 did u guys see he level his charm first and he burned flash for first blood?
Did u guys see the faker zed player after 20 sec he got executed by tower?
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Faker was laughing and they were all storming into the base in an already secured victory, trying to finish out the game immediately. (although they didn't end it right away iirc)
I don't think this takes anything away from his ability.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
This is one hell of a statistic from royal vs fnatic (From dlift's blog)
Puszu lost Semis going 29/9/37, a KDA of 7.3. In contrast, Uzi went 23/17/28 with a KDA of 3.0. Imagine losing with a 16/5/16 score and being knocked out of Worlds.
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Well if you lose double+ cs by 10 minutes 4 games in a row I wouldn't complain.I mean he played 3* ad-s that don't need items with ok mid games and was never really a threat even with good stats.
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Puszu played an excellent Varus, but at the expense of his team though. He lost the lane early, and since Fnatic had 4 melee champs + Varus, everybody out there just literally threw themselves out to wall off for Varus.
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Hope people don't take this the wrong way, but KDA doesn't mean anything. If puszu didn't fall so far behind in lane and wasn't clearly outclassed they wouldn't have lost the series. Uzi being 400 gold up on him despite their team losing and being behind in kills is ridiculous.
There's also a very big difference between how Uzi, Piglet, and a few other CN/Korean ADCs plays teamfights and Europeans/NA adcs play teamfights. They are in the middle of it attacking high priority targets along with their team and also baiting out the other team a lot. They maximize their damage output value while trying to stay alive when being dived by 2-3 people including a fizz.
Puszu on the other hand is not a main priority target and not on a "must kill or we lose" champion. He just plays safely in the back and cleans up kills.
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Still interesting that a team losing so hard in lane ends up by winning most team fight and get such KDA despite losing.
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On September 30 2013 04:11 WhiteDog wrote:
Still interesting that a team losing so hard in lane ends up by winning most team fight and get such KDA despite losing.
considering how many times royal got caught out in blatantly stupid ways (I'm looking at you Lucky), and it doesn't come as much of a surprise.
Also I'm not sure if I'd consider NA's strongest role support, considering that C9 is NA's finest, and LemonNation had absolutely abysmal vision control against fnatic. I feel like the top 2 NA players at their role are pretty good, considering an international level, and then everyone under doesn't really compare.
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On September 29 2013 21:00 skykh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 18:22 niukasu1990 wrote:On September 29 2013 18:19 scrubtastic wrote:
Think it'll be SKT 3-2.
Both teams are great at closing out games with a lead, both teams have a good laning phase and their mechanics are solid. You won't see a massive kill lead with one team into loss like Fnatic. Expecting one sub-20 min inhibitor at least
To contrast with the SKT strengths, here's why I'm not going to count out Royal just yet.
-SKT got caught offguard by the anti-Ahri strats. Royal might gain a win or two by pulling something unfamiliar to SKT and of course taking advantage of SKT's weak game 1.
-Royal were (IMO) also disrespecting Fnatic; they will probably try and play tighter against SKT. I thought they looked stronger against OMG
-Bengi seems to slack off with jungler combat items (and this leads to a jungler that's weak in teamfights)
-I think Royal bot lane has a decent chance of winning against SKT bot lane
-Royal L1 strats are good...right? I dont think so, based on their performance today, SKT can 3:0 Royal easily Yes they 3-0 so easily vs sword right? Based on the gambit game they should 3-0 sword.
SKT would have 3-0'd sword if they picked nunu and nidalee. I honestly believe NJS were hiding strats with those picks and thought they could beat gambit anyway.
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On September 30 2013 04:11 WhiteDog wrote:
Still interesting that a team losing so hard in lane ends up by winning most team fight and get such KDA despite losing.
Fnatic comp is spellcast/ultimate heavy comp. If you think about it, 3 ignite+5 big ultimate should guarantee that somebody will die everytime they engage. But because their team had such low physical dps, they could never able to push out once the super minions spawned.
Moreover, since they have 4 melee champions, they don't really have high ground advantage while defending the inhibitors.
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EPT
