EPTAs always, give critique etc. but be nice or I'll rape you :3
EDIT: Luxury items to be added
Oh and anyone willing to share wisdom on how to add item icons, please PM
[Champion] Sona - Page 5
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
As always, give critique etc. but be nice or I'll rape you :3 EDIT: Luxury items to be added Oh and anyone willing to share wisdom on how to add item icons, please PM | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On March 11 2014 01:11 YouGotNothin wrote: Do you think Sona will see a resurgence in popularity with the spellthief buff and dorans shield nerf? Also do you think going spellthief->frostfang then eventually selling frostfang for talisman when you have the cash (as LemonNation did on LuLu this week) a good idea? The whole selling for another item, is something that's rather uncommon, but comparing the gold generation on both items, i would believe (will do math sometime when there's more generic results to gold-generation on spell thief's edge) that there's no significant gold loss. Which brings me back to your first question. Yes, the reason why i said people should play Sona is caused by two things: -Nerfs to doran's shield aka. nerfs to Leona and Thresh (who seriously couldn't be bullied out of lane as Sona cus of hp5) -Rise in popularity of Lulu, both as AP and Support. She shits on the two former, and Sona is a very decent counter to her, which makes her even more viable. -The changes to defense coming into Season 4 helped a lot. Before the most optimal build was 1/14/15 or similar, because you so desperately needed the mid-tier utility masteries to stay relevant for mid/late-game. That's not important anymore in solo queue, where being a tanky fucker just saves your ass all day. You pretty much rely on MSPD and tankiness to survive (something i know Teutonica/Slayer91 has been argumentative for towards Sona since i don't know when). I haven't seen that LemonNation game, but imma check it out and see if the casters show the gold-generation. On March 11 2014 02:04 Slusher wrote: Personally I've found the dshield nerf to be a buff to Sona with Dshield, she got the least out of the regen anyway and the other supports no longer buying increases her power cord damage, I've been going Dshield > Coin in most match ups, interested to see what others think about this. I'm not sure if i follow you correctly here. You think that the nerf to dshield made the item more viable for Sona -> winning more lanes? Could you elaborate some more, I'm interested to hear what match-ups etc. you think this works in. | ||
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
Can't watch it all now to see if they talk about gold generated from the items, but I may later. He certainly had a lot of money. He was able to get Aegis, Talisman, Lucidity boots, Crucible, and Sightstone at 35 min. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 11 2014 01:11 YouGotNothin wrote: Do you think Sona will see a resurgence in popularity with the spellthief buff and dorans shield nerf? Also do you think going spellthief->frostfang then eventually selling frostfang for talisman when you have the cash (as LemonNation did on LuLu this week) a good idea? This is the basic logic. Can the support deal poke damage without taking damage? If yes, start spellthief. It doesn't matter what item you want to end up with, because spellthief will not only be the best for laning, but will give so much more gold than Coin that you can sell Frostfang for Talisman at a net profit anyway. Karma, Lulu, Zyra, Annie etc should all be opening spellthief. Sona I think is a bit more questionable because she often takes damage every time she goes up to deal damage but regens it back, so coin might be stronger for her as a laning tool. She also accidentally kills creeps with Q's which can inhibit the gold gain. Starting dshield I think is mathematically always bad unless you're planning on doing an all in the moment you hit level 2, which I suppose is viable in some matchups but not with Sona. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Or is she too squishy if she happens to eat a binding? | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:45 Sponkz wrote: You just gotta trade efficiently? I don't really see how it's questionable for other than the fact that Q sometimes (practice helps) kill a creep. You're still gaining a ridiculous amount of gold from poking with AA or single-target Q's on the enemy support/ad. 6.3 minions spawn per 30 secs, so Coin gives 31.5 HP per 30 secs, or 5.25 HP/5. Spellthief does 30 damage per 30 secs (if used perfectly), or 5 damage per 5. That's disingenuous though because you have to count resistances into this. Damage caused is reduced by resistances, so your actual damage output from spellthief is some amount less than 5 per 5, while resistances improve the value of HP regen, so the amount of effective HP gained by Coin is some amount more than 5.25 HP/5. Then you need to examine 5 AP vs. 1 MP/5 on Sona. 5 AP gives Sona 5 extra damage on a Q (2.5 per target), 2.5 extra healing on a W (1.25 per target), and 1 extra damage on a power chord. A level 1 W for example has a mana per healing efficiency of 1.33, meaning for every point of mana you spend, you get 1.33 health. So 1 MP/5 gives Sona 1.33 HP/5, while 5 AP would give her 1.7 IF she spammed W on cooldown (which you don't do). In a practical scenario you're probably only healing half that much and you're getting more long term healing from 1 MP/5 than you are from 5 AP. The damage figures would be less pronounced, but similar. So, TL;DR: In terms of raw laning stats, Coin gives more to Sona than Spellthief does. Spellthief gives you more gold (lots more gold) + Show Spoiler + LOTS MORE GOLD I'm skeptical that the spellthief/frostfang lines extra gold gain is THAT big a disparity. Might be though! | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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MCMilo
United States365 Posts
I suggest a middle ground setup of something like 0/15/15. Sona surprisingly has decent resistances considering her heal and what position you want to be against the enemy laners. What's best for Sona is how you can maximize how much damage you can take in the lane without feeling endangered. What this means is that you want high enough MAX hp + resists to feel confident in your situation while keeping a strong balance between trade + heal during the laning phase. To augment these strengths, I also suggest switching a few (4-5) MR Glyphs for Flat Mana Regen/5. Sona has a 30 base MR like every other ranged character and she is also blessed with 6 to 10 bonus MR depending on the rank of your heal. Yes her armor is pretty damn trashy, but that is why there's the +5 armor into the defensive tree that sacrifices some gold gain and possibly CDR+Item CD. The latter isn't hugely beneficial in the laning phase anyway compared to the short-term boost in strength that +5 armor can give you. Remember, Sona tries to create a lot of trading situations so how much damage you take in lane is not only your max HP, but the total HP you actually have with Aria + Potions + Max HP + Passive Regeneration. Doran's Shield can also be a good choice if the enemy botlane as a relatively strong lane against Sona. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
In solo queue i would rather sit on Frostfang's queen and burn my flash if needed than having coin and gaining less gold. The amount of tankiness on Sona, should not be underestimated as it's the 2nd most important thing (mana regen being the top contender, hence the crucible). I do believe the gold gain is crucial for Sona, because her early-game is fair, her mid-game is really good and her late-game is good. This means that you will much quicker be able to obtain the much-needed core you need before tanks/carries get 16. @McMilo It's my preferences, but saying it's outright trashy when you yourself suggest a 0/15/15 with slow reduction (assuming you will always need it which you won't) while going for the 40 gold and medi-ocre gp10 gain and STILL sacrificing the deeper points, which makes the 0/9/21 worthwhile, just shows that you haven't been reading things properly. I suggest the 4/22/4 for solo queue and solo queue only. If you think this is shit in arranged (where gold distribution is different) then you're 100% right, but i never stated that anywhere. Again, if you like a 15/15 mastery setup, I'm not gonna stop you, but there's a reason i go that deep, and it's simply because MSPD (which you give up for mp5, despite getting chalice early?), CC reduction (u go 15 def) and heal (amplified slighty by Second Wind, crucial early) is all you got to survive ganks early on. Nothing in your 15/15 improves that, you're simply sacrificing resists (remember that it´s 8 armor and 4 mres ALL THE TIME in lane from Legendary Guardian) and CC reduction for gold gain. I bet it works, it's just not my style and I advocate against it. That´s just me. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Quite a large number of reasons why the 4/22/4 build you've suggested is incredibly inefficient. At least go something like 5/22/3. Not that I think Milo's 0/15/15 is perfect, but I like it a lot more. Is there some reason why Scout is actually worth taking? Does it let you drop trinkets over walls that you couldn't before? Because it seems completely not worth the point to me, especially when you could take Strength of Spirit instead, which is overpowered as all fuck. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Yes, i've noticed that some brushes are easier and safer (the biggest reason) to ward with scout. I guess going for Expose Weakness could be good in specific match-ups like Sona/Ezreal where the poke is more synced, but other than that it seems kinda similar. Why only 2 points in perseverance and then 2 points in recovery? 2 points for 2 hp5 seems kinda stupid, when you could place those 2 points for 3/3 perseverance (takes 200 hp for it to beat recovery) with Second wind. I can't stress how many times I've saved myself from ganks by flashing and using nifty timed heals on low hp. You think it wouldn't matter, but my experience says it does. EDIT: Obviously the trade-off is 0,335% hp5 versus 2 flat hp5 for perseverance versus recovery, which would require more health, but in the end 2 hp5 is close to nothing, while 1% health regen keeps adding up, the more health you obtain. Second wind is just a bonus, which is easy to abuse if you play smart. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Expose Weakness is good for increasing your damage. In fact, it's just ridiculous and overpowered for a single mastery point. If you're going to go 4 offense there's no real reason not to go 5. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Abusing MSPD and Q is 80% of the laning, handling W on top to abuse resists is another thing, because if you go too deep, you die. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Go for early game masteries like maybe this. | ||
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