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Seems like something i tried and didn't like, you really make it seem like i haven't put thought into everything ^^
Culinary mastery is ok i guess, i never felt the greater impact of cookies compared to pots sadly. SoS is just wtf? At level 18 you will have a whopping 1k mana without bonus from items, giving you 3 hp5.
Recovery is and will always be a terrible mastery, it's 1 point for 1 hp5, you get that from gaining lvl 3. You shouldn't even be hard-trading before lvl 3 anyways (maybe at 2 if you poke well at lvl 1).
The bonus armor/magic resist from your auras should effect Enchanted Armor and since you're bound to get at least crucible for mres and maybe glacial/aegis for armor (and more mres) i don't see why you would trade that away for freaking 2 hp5.
EDIT: You get both the early-game value and mid/late-game value from defense, i just don't see how +2 mres, +2hp5 and maybe expose weakness is gonna differ THAT much, that 4/22/4 is outright trashy.
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Because the 2 HP/5 is better early game. Lets examine this.
At level 1 with your proposed rune/mastery setup, Sona has 11.3+47 armor, gaining 2.35 from enchanted armor.
She has 5.05 HP regen, plus on average 2.49 from her 3 points in Perserverence.
Each point of HP she regens with this setup gives her 1.583 effective HP without enchanted armor, 1.6065 with enchanted armor.
So 2 extra HP5 makes her total regen 15.10 effective HP per 5.
5% bonus armor makes her total regen 12.11 effective HP per 5.
Now, she also gets 11.76 more EHP on her base HP, as well as a little bit more every time she casts a heal, so she needs to regen for 10-15 seconds before Recovery becomes better. But at the same time the above math is assuming you're taking 100% physical damage (which is not going to happen). Real numbers are going to be even more in favor of Recovery than that.
And if Recovery is so good (it is so good), then Strength of Spirit which gives Sona more than 1 HP/5 at level 1 and also scales up with level is even better.
Enchanted Armor is better later in the game after you buy items sure, but in the initial lane Recovery is better.
All I'm saying is that you're saying the big issue is early game survivability and that's why you use your mastery page, but then you take a bunch of masteries that are bad early game and good late game. It doesn't make sense.
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Yeah i get what you're trying to say, and it's more a niche issue, than straight up bad. You gotta find your own preferences, i just got bitchy, cus he said and i quote "Those 4/22/4 masteries are really trashy."
My point is that early-game isn't just about lvl 1, cus lvl 1 you wanna do real ballsy trades anyways and then push for early 2 resulting in spamming heals and diminuendo (haha no damage, gg).
I'm gonna duo a bit with scip tonight and we'll see how it goes, so far i'm 1-0, although match-up heavily favored me LOL.
Sona/Caitlyn vs Leona/Vayne I'm like what the fuck, we even FP'ed Caitlyn.
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The more levels you gain without buying items the better Recovery is, because you're gaining base armor but not bonus armor.
Enchanted Armor isn't a bad mastery, especially when you're going so much armor on your rune page. But Recovery is actually VERY strong in the early game.
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I'll add a note to the masteries we discussed.
edit: ended up changing my own masteries, added whatever else posted so far.
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So, I see a lot of discussion about masteries, but nothing about runes (sorry if I missed it). What kind of runes do you guys run on Sona? I've been using a page with armor reds, armor yellow, mr blues and hp quints (flat everything) and going spellthief's for laning (selling for shurelias later). Is that the way to go, or should I use any other combination of defensive runes for her? Or even offensive reds and/or quints?
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I have 2 pages for Sona that are particularly good.
Hybrid pen red, armor yellow, mr blues, MSPD quints - Generic page, gives you everything you need for any match-up
Hybrid pen red, armor yellow, flat ap blues and either MSPD/HP/Hybrid Pen - The choice for quints is personal preference. Since you're already running HP quints, i would advocate you do the same with this page (you can also go for more offense, since you're getting ap blues).
With flat ap blues, your Q's passive AP gain and spellthief, you melt shit like never before.
If you run 3 mp5 in utility instead of 1,5% MSPD, then you shouldn't be running MSPD quints.
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Tried new Sona for the first time seriously and eeeh, not too convinced. Granted I was against Braum/Lucian and my Corki was playing fairly back so I couldn't stick my head out easily to auto people after using Q. It seemed like my damage didn't really stick.
She felt worse overall because it's sometimes really hard to tag people meaningfully with the auras, especially making use of the Q for yourself but still getting its passive and W off on your lane partner. Worst thing though is the cooldowns. W is pretty good in fights later on thanks to the shield and the healing increase based on your allies health%, but your dps and healing feels so weak early on because of how less casts you get.
On the plus side it means you don't go oom as fast since the costs didn't really go up (W did, but since it took 6 more seconds to its cooldown... ), but your general map mobility is alot worse without the ability to use E more often or it granting the MS buff aura, and building CDR and manaregen and some tankiness because you have to stand much closer to all allies despite losing the W resistances aura, is hard. I ended up with CDR from claim and locket, but locket came super late and even 20% CDR leaves your cooldowns longer than pre-rework Sona's base cooldowns, so it doesn't exactly feel good.
Is their a much different way of playing here post-rework that I missed (apart that she's now a lot less aggressive, since she gets less powerchord, they're weaker damage-wise, and Q is weaker if your ally doesn't use the buff, on top of having higher windows of vulnerability with stuff on cd)?
Also something I didn't check, and wiki doesn't say it, do you "replace" the current aura if you cast another spell before it's expired?
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I feel like she's weaker until you get to 5/6, then her damage is OP and you kill everybody ezpz.
And yeah, you replace the aura.
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She's insanely good right now, and if you can ever make a good trade with W where you make use of the shield as well it's gggg. I switched to her from Nami if I'm absolute first pick, because she's just as universal as Nami, but her damage is crazy. I could also pull off comebacks in lanes, and pretty much none of my losses with her (most of them were superclose) came down to situations where I wished for another support. I find Tidal Wave lackluster for situations when you have fallen waaay behind, but Crescendo is the same broken spell it ever was.
Just like with Janna, coin and knife are both very much viable on her. I used to think I absolutely need knife to pull off relevant damage early on, but playing her more I found it's not the case. Of course, is super aggro harass is your gameplan, you should get the knife.
Probably the only thing I miss from old Sona is the viability of W max. Sadly, there's no more pussy-mode option in lanes if you are behind or you happened to get a vayne as your adc. Managing her mana early on is also a bitch
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On March 20 2014 17:05 zodde wrote:
So, I see a lot of discussion about masteries, but nothing about runes (sorry if I missed it). What kind of runes do you guys run on Sona? I've been using a page with armor reds, armor yellow, mr blues and hp quints (flat everything) and going spellthief's for laning (selling for shurelias later). Is that the way to go, or should I use any other combination of defensive runes for her? Or even offensive reds and/or quints?
I run hybrid red, scaling health yellow,flat mr blues & flat armor quints. On basically all supports that are not full on killers like annie. It has worked great for me. I combo this with a 0 13 17 (ranged) or 0 14 16 (melee) masteries. On ranged supports I always run regen in defense on melee I run the bonus arm/mr instead. Some players like 0 21 9 on melee supports such as leona.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
So is Sona's damage as nuts as I think it is? By my math a Q-AA combo with Lich Bane is 1.8x AP ratio. Does that mean Sona should be rushing Lich Bane after core support items?
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Looking at the wiki, she has 0.5 ratio on Q, then she can get an extra 0.5 on her next auto (0.2 from Q, 0.3 from her passive). Lichbane would make the combo a potential 1.5 ratio. Where did you find the extra 0.3?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Q ratio is 0.5
Q makes her next auto add 0.2
Passive makes her next auto add 0.2
Lich Bane adds 0.5
The 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.5 is multiplied by 1.5 because of Staccato, so 0.5 + (0.2+0.2+0.5)*1.5 = 1.8.
Though it is unclear to me whether Staccato amplifies only her passive damage or the entire power chord.
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I am almost positive Staccato only amplifies her passive damage (i.e. +0.1 ap ratio). making NpG's calculations correct. Either way its a high ratio, but I also think Lich Bane on support Sona isn't very good, you wont get it until pretty late and your job in fights isn't just to do damage. Getting a more efficient AP item (morellos/athenes/mejais) that gives mana regen/cdr and buffs all of your abilities (heal/shield/speed/damage) is probably better.
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In theory (if u can afford it), it can be a smart choice from sitting on chalice. I don't know how happy your team will be for dumping gold like that. Maybe you could play her in mid ^^
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On January 06 2015 03:16 Sponkz wrote:
In theory (if u can afford it), it can be a smart choice from sitting on chalice. I don't know how happy your team will be for dumping gold like that. Maybe you could play her in mid ^^
What cases are thinking of? Against a full ad team without any significant cleansable cc so you don't require Mikaels nor Locket? That's pretty much the only case in which I can imagine it being useful, but even then I'd rather go iceborn gauntlet.
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In the cases, where you're winning so much, you're only adding beneficial stats to your team (in lich's bane case you're adding damage). I can see the uses, as a win-more tool, but i don't ever see it as a must-have item.
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United States4053 Posts
I've been enjoying getting Frozen Fist rather than Lich Bane, and doing so rather early to boot. The drop (?) in damage is more than made up for by the increased tankiness, CDR, and kiting power for the whole team (something which Sona is already almost capable of with her E).
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I think it's a decent item on Sona, but generally there are more important items (Mikeals, Locket). I like it against ad heavy teams though.
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EPT
