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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/2c8k9b/new_and_old_sona_damage_comparison_and_opinion_on One of the bigger things I'd point out in your guide is that taking E at level 4 is much more viable now and I heavily recommend it, as with proper chord management you can easily abuse it to land slows on your lane opponents and heavily punish them. If you do end up updating the guide then I might come by with some more feedback/criticism. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
 I'm intrigued at the idea of a Sheen item on Sona, I usually skip AP items altogether after Spellthief and rush Sightstone/Mobis/Locket-or-FH, emphasizing W-chord. Could one of you provide a couple of example match histories so I could get a feel for the item and level timings? | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
If you are really keen on using a Sheen item then get it after Spellthief/Sighstone/Mobis/Mikaels, and I'd usually rather take Iceborn Gauntlets than Lich Bane. With Mobis and without locket you can make good use of the additional cdr. | ||
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Anakko
France1934 Posts
 I've been playing quite a bit of Sona lately, and I've settled on a core of Sightstone, Lucidity boots and Chalice, sometimes upgrading spellthief to frostfang, sometimes not. If I completed this and feel ahead, I will buy sheen next, pretty much always. Then the amount of burst goes through the roof. If all goes perfectly, this should happen (or that) I tried mobies once, it went well, but it didn't feel as smooth as lucidity as it took longer to get cdr, sona's cds are pretty long in the midgame without cdr. I'll keep using lucidity, which coupled with chalice lets you spam e that you should get at lvl4 -> decent mobility anyways. When the game gets longer, you have to choose what to upgrade your sheen into. If not very ahead and/or faced with heavy ad, gauntlet is quite appealing. (I went overboard on cdr in that one, but it was fun so I would do it again) If you're a real man, lichbane is your friend. It's really the only dmg item you'll ever need, so upgrade chalice into crucible always. You now do insane damage, are faster and glow purple. I like this item. As you get even more fed, locket is the next logical choice, but then we're talking very lategame. So here is the disclaimer. I play sona super aggro in lane, usually with ignite if enemy comp allows, and need to do well to snowball. But sona is the support that i find easier to snowball with in the whole game. You wreck early teamfights with lucidity boots and a chalice, and when you get sheen nobody expects the amount of dmg you can dish out. Check the dmg done to champions stat in the links I gave, I was pretty surprised the first few times. On the other hand, if you get behind, you have little way of protecting your carry efficiently and the game can pretty easily turn into this. (For funsies, here's what happens if you get a bit carried away. Not recommended. But fun) | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
. I noticed that our runes/masteries are pretty different, I take 5% CDR in offense and %max mana in utility over 1.5gp10. I'm also only Plat 3, so I might not be able to win lane as convincingly as you do. I'll try taking E earlier and trading more aggressively with the extra mana from an earlier Chalice. | ||
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Anakko
France1934 Posts
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Diggy B
United States7 Posts
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On January 07 2015 14:23 Luepert wrote: Has anyone had luck with a tanky sona build? My friend said on sona he goes for locket and frozen heart after his gold item, boots and SS. I generally don't like planning out a support build that has two fixed defensive items as core, because supports don't have enough money in general to buy all-around defenses. They have to be pretty choosy with their items, taking the ones that add the right utility for the team (i.e. you can't just pick ones that give good stats). Locket is good in most situations, but Frozen Heart is pretty situational I feel, especially since it adds no HP. While the latter's CDR does get you nearly to cap, there's basically CDR scattered like candy on every support item, so there's no need to build for it specifically. For a cookie-cutter build, Locket + Randuin's is generally a better all-purpose core. In addition, on high-scaling supports like Sona, if you get ahead early then buying AP over tankiness can seal the game for your team more than most other supports can. | ||
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On January 07 2015 15:19 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm more in favor of Luepert's friend's build. FH is stronger than it looks because of its smooth buildup (saving 1k for Giant's Belt in the midgame sounds difficult), and the mana is greatly appreciated when you don't have a Chalice item. I've personally never had much success with building AP on any supports, and I prefer to build Sona tanky with Distortion Boots as a flash-ult and W-chord bot who happens to have a good laning phase. Your mileage will of course vary per playstyle and teamcomp, but being an immobile squishy just doesn't feel very effective in most cases. That seems to be quite a different playstyle from mine, then. I don't play ultbot sona (not because it isn't effective, but because I don't find it fun), so I opt instead for more damage and sustained fight influence from something like a Sheen item or Twin Shadows (which helps set up ult and patches up mobility). I'm also not entirely on board with FH's stat distribution as a defensive item just due to Sona's low HP - I feel like if your objective is to ult and then not be totally useless after, you need all the HP you can get. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
A general problem with frozen heart on squishy supports is that it becomes very ineffective. Frozen heart has only 700 range and you cannot afford to stand in the middle of the teamfight as sona. Usually you won't even be close enough to the opponent's adc to apply the attack speed slow for large parts of the fight. On January 07 2015 14:22 Diggy B wrote: What about running talisman? It may give less gold, but I've found the 100% health and mana regen to be more conducive to a harass-focused lane. Not only does it let you get away with taking poke for your ADC, but it scoots mana regen into your build earlier, allowing the lich bane follow-up to fit in nicely with the game progression. From there, locket and whatever sixth you need. I love movespeed, so I stick with mobi's, but lucidity could work here as well, probably more optimally now that I think about it. Talisman has its use lategame, but starting coin costs you too much of your lane presence. @Anakko: I noticed you run 2 hp quints and 4 armor seals. In general Armor Quints and HP seals is more effective. I personally run a whole set of 3 armor quints, 7 hp seals and 2 armor seals. You can play around a bit what feels good to you, but even just switching 1 hp quint for an armor quint and the 4 armor seals for hp seals gives you a benefit of +.26 armor and +6 hp. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On January 07 2015 15:19 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm more in favor of Luepert's friend's build. FH is stronger than it looks because of its smooth buildup (saving 1k for Giant's Belt in the midgame sounds difficult), and the mana is greatly appreciated when you don't have a Chalice item. I've personally never had much success with building AP on any supports, and I prefer to build Sona tanky with Distortion Boots as a flash-ult and W-chord bot who happens to have a good laning phase. Your mileage will of course vary per playstyle and teamcomp, but being an immobile squishy just doesn't feel very effective in most cases. If you really want Frozen Heart, play a jungler that can buy it or play Ryze. I tried it back in s2-s3 because i was under the influence that it was secretly OP and that the additional armor would help me in tough situations, but it's all bullshit. You could get IBG and be way more useful, than an aura which will never take effect and a bunch of armor you don't need. | ||
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
As a general rule of thumb, I've found that utility items (mikaels, locket) allow you to carry harder than damage items. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Diggy B
United States7 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
-I don't see any reason not to go frostfag, you make so much money and all the stats are useful. Talisman is just a terrible item and only useful for the shurelyas. -I don't go mobility boots simply because I'm a shitty support and don't care about wards. -I sometimes frozen heart but only against all AD comps where I also consider skipping chalice. Usually it's not a good idea because you are way too easy to one shot for AP champions, and you won't hit the slow on their ADC that consistently, but with a lot of AD guys it helps against all of them. IBG is usually better here though. -I take exhaust against any kind of OP divers like riven fizz etc, I don't like it but its too strong. I prefer to take ignite though. -I used to play mostly tank sona in the past but they nerfed her base damage by quite a bit and boosted her AP ratios to compensate, locket is okay but if you have AP you get a free locket every W cd anyway. I like to buy at least a giants belt though because staying alive long enough to do more than ult is obviously super important. The tankier you are the squishier targets you can pick to Q+power chord. -I've had a lot of success with meowjai's soulstealer because you can sit in the back except for ulting and max range q+power chording and then using E to escape if it's a bad fight. -Sheen items are okay, lichbane is great when you have 20 stacks and deathcap+rylais or something. I've been going like frostfag+sightstone+lucidity+chalice+soulstealer and then get athenes and giants belt and then get rylais or deathcap. For some reason I always get really good scores and tons of gold so I need to get some elo to properly test. -I don't really like support items like mikaels and all that other trash. Almost every other support provides way more base utility than sona so getting pure support items on them is a really good idea. Sure if you have something really important like you need to cleanse ashe arrow then get it, but in general I figure I might as well try to maximize my burst/poke (q+power chord, ult) and the 6 s cd locket+heal spam. The real edge you have comes from poke since you can both heal/shield and damage so it's a double whammy in a poke war, getting caught is a big risk so that's why you have to at least be tanky enough to let yourself get ult off if they go hard for an engage even if you were fairly safe. Laning phase is such a tenous period because you have to constantly be aggressive to abuse your poke but you also have no CC or escape so you can be easily ganked. I rune something like mpen reds ap blues armour quints hp/lvl yellows (armour yellows are trash now and flat hps too, but hp/lvl gives you the stat which you lack the most usually) Sona's scaling is pretty huge if you count the power chord scalingx1.5+the 0.5 q damage scaling + the 0.2 scaling on auto. Lategame if you're rich you can one shot people it's pretty hilarious. I kind of feel like AP is pretty gold reliant though, If you know for a fact you are going to be poor it's better to have like locket+mikaels over athenes+a giants belt or something. If you're going mejai's though you probably want to go the whole horse and get highstacks+deathcap+giants belt+maybe ruby sightstone (need lots of hp, you can heal poke and E zoom away from people chasing but if you get one shot you are fucked) Sona is such an assist slut and assist spree gives so much gold than you can easily pick up assist for most of the kills and get as much gold as most of your team. I guess if you're going to play in LCS and have a game with like 7 kills by 40 minutes then you're going to be pretty shitty but then you probably want thresh or nami or something instead of sona anyway. | ||
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HoMM
Estonia635 Posts
On January 08 2015 08:40 Diggy B wrote: How often do you pick ignite over exhaust? Aside from Sona, there aren't many other supports that are worth suppressing heals for (despite the near constant presence of heal). Exhaust also lets you choose a chord more easily because of its slow filling in for your e chord. Also, is there ever a time to take Banner over Locket? Locket vs Banner is a good question. I think in some situations, Banner can work, but it's a really niche item. Locket active is massive in teamfights and the stats benefit Sona much more than the AP you get from Banner. I'd pick Banner if you know you'll definitely be able to get higher benefit from its active than you would from Locket active. Also on ignite vs exhaust - I run ignite 95% of the time since I have a very aggressive playstyle. If you're not as bloodthirsty, just check the enemy teamcomp and decide how important it is for you to take exhaust. It's really, really strong against stuff like Rengar, Akali, Yasuo, Katarina, Fizz and pretty much every other assassin that could be a threat to your adc. | ||
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