EPT[Champion] Viktor - Page 11
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Sermokala
United States14215 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I go QEQEER, taking a point in W at level 8 (or sometimes 3 or 4 if I feel like it'll do the difference against junglers, but it's rare), R > E > Q > W. Once E is level 4 (so you're level 7) and you have death augment, you'll start one-shoting the caster minions (and even the melee minions with the DoT if you have some AP), but before that I pretty much restrain from using E unless I'm 100% sure to land it on my opponent or I've blue buff. I generally just OS the wave once I get rolling, so I can steal wraiths or roam easily. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Viktor is a definite favor vs. Kat. You don't need to max Q, do what Alaric above says (QEQEER, R>E>Q>W, W at 8). That's my standard solo queue set up. It can vary depending on certain things though (if I absolutely need W at 4 because of imminent death). You shouldn't be going oom on Viktor any more than any other mages really. It's just about proper mana management. Q is fairly low mana. As Alaric said, I also tend to refrain from E early on, although I think I'm more aggressive with it around lvl 4/5 than he is. That said, Athene's certainly isn't a bad item on Viktor. Getting it early really just delays his early-mid game strength, which I'm personally hesitant to do. If it works for you, though, then go for it. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 15 2012 11:25 jcarlsoniv wrote: God damnit, every time this gets bumped, you guys remind me that I keep forgetting to take time to update OP... Viktor is a definite favor vs. Kat. You don't need to max Q, do what Alaric above says (QEQEER, R>E>Q>W, W at 8). That's my standard solo queue set up. It can vary depending on certain things though (if I absolutely need W at 4 because of imminent death). You shouldn't be going oom on Viktor any more than any other mages really. It's just about proper mana management. Q is fairly low mana. As Alaric said, I also tend to refrain from E early on, although I think I'm more aggressive with it around lvl 4/5 than he is. That said, Athene's certainly isn't a bad item on Viktor. Getting it early really just delays his early-mid game strength, which I'm personally hesitant to do. If it works for you, though, then go for it. What are bad mid match ups for Viktor? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Other annoying matchups are Karth/Morg because they can just sit and farm and not fight you if they really want. Ahri can be a bit rough because she's so bouncy. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
I really don't like facing Swain as Vik. He out damages you pretty hard overall, so you need to poke him with e or shove the lane with it. Swain sucks at shoving back. Ahri is a fun matchup from my experience. She can't mess up or you kill her, and if you get taunted, she murders you. If you catch her during ult in your w, she will die from everything. Also, I've been experimenting with itemization+runes with Vik. Basically your standard ap page with scaling ap yellows and 5 flat ap blues. Been going chalice>death+sorc shoes>hat. So much waveclear in your e if you aim it well, and you basically have infinite mana, so go farm jungle when you push lane. Also, I still really think Viktor at least goes even with Kat if not a solid advantage over her. He has the tools to fight back against her. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
I'm sure I'm playing much worse players than many of you, but I really have had no difficulty with those matchups whatsoever. In my experience none of those mids has the range or sustain to stay in lane vs the lazer, and I can hit a really high percentage. Morg has a huge fat hitbox too. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 15 2012 15:08 sob3k wrote: Where can someone possible farm from where they can't be lazered? In that case Karthus can harass even more easily with his Q. I guess you can argue it's a skill match up, but it is probably much harder for Viktor to play aggressive than Karthus farming. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Other annoying match-ups are Lux, Xerath, because of their range that makes it hard to go up and harass them as soon as they start clearing with spells (Xerath in particular will eat a E if he goes into siege mode, but shrug it off and just EQ you), and not only can their combo often 100-0 you (esp. Xerath), they can do it from outside your range and not commit until they catch you somehow (stun/binding). (All champs with enough range nullify your W, basically making you a 2-spells champ against them.) Gragas is horrible to fight because his E makes it easy for him to escape both your ult's DoT and your W with enough reaction time, he can farm with Q from afar, has damage reduction and sustain to reduce your E effectiveness, and with Viktor's squishiness and lack of mobility a good Gragas ult will get you killed everytime his ignite his up. Morgana isn't a "counter" per see because Viktor can just OS the wave while it's still in a line, denying Morgana the round formation she needs to hit everything with her W, unless she tanks the wave. So you get a few seconds on her to roam, and she can't really prevent it unless she walks up and try to Q you while you come to E the wave. She'll probably beat you in a straight-up full combo exchange, though, and benefits more from ganks through Black Shield and Dark Binding. Swain's annoying as soon as he gets ahead. Your Q reduces his damage early on (since it's DoT) and he can't really escape your W, nor deal with you shoving the lane on him, but to get the full damage out of your ult (often needed as he'll heal during it if you didn't harass him down enough) you have to follow him while he flees, which often needs he'll keep sustaining off of you, so he's hard to finish off if you didn't estimate your burst well. But if you can harass well Viktor should have the advantage. Katarina is an "easy" match-up because she can't attack you. Q+autos hurt her a lot more than her Q does early on, and if she tries to shunpo to you she'll just eat some more autos. If she tries her full combo at level 3 some won't go through (if she uses Shunpo before other spells she'll be on top of you so you'll be shielded instantly, if she doesn't she'll have to walk up to W you so your Q will come back before too) while your damage from level 2 Q + E will outtrade her hard, on top of the free autos while she runs away. If she ever Shunpo on you can W to slow/stun her despite her MS buff from her W, which shouldn't be enough to get more spells on her, but a big threat in case your jungler was waiting nearby. She also can't ult because either you run away if she does it from afar, or ult her if she shunpo'd to you, making her eat most of the AoE (even more if you drop W on top of it). She can instaclear the wave after awhile, doesn't suffer from mana issues and has pretty solid roaming, so if you don't take advantage of the match-up early on she may outroam you (she'll have her ult available more often than you, and is better in skirmishes because of the reset mechanic while your AoE isn't as good against spread out people). I'm pretty sure you can/should get a kill before 6 though. I'm just bad at dealing the finishing blow (without using flash) once my opponents are below 25% and just play scared. | ||
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Skithiryx
Australia648 Posts
On November 03 2012 03:59 jcarlsoniv wrote: He won't become FotM unless they really do something ridiculous. People are bad, and they can only play faceroll champs like Ahri or Kat. Give them anything they actually have to try with, and they fail hard. Same reason people can't play Syndra. Woo, I'm not terrible at the game, I can only effectively play Brand/Syndra/Viktor nowadays. As for build are you guys still going something similar after the new patch Boots>Double Doran>Upgrade>Dcap>whatever fits best here. From what i've seen so far none of the new items are much snuff, the new DFG if nice for the ultimate facemelting but yeah. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I'm a bit concerned about his lane sustain and stuff, since before you could boots+double doran+augment+wards+pots, and be pretty much set for until you had 1600 for NLR (at which point you've invested around 3500 in items, so you're probably not in a phase where pots will matter anymore), but now if you want flask you have to switch one out (let's say the pots slot, but it's the first to go anyway). Also, Viktor's shining point was levels 11-14 with E maxed, Q soon to be, level 2 ult and if you farmed correctly your sorcs/augment/deathcap combo, ready to melt away anyone who tries to fight in your range, but now with DCap nerfed I wonder how it compares. Since they lowered slot-efficiency for tier3 items, it's supposed to 'buff' Viktor's lategame as his augment was untouched while his opponent's 6th item is probably weaker, but it also "nerfs" his midgame where he'll rely on augment+tier3 items (deathcap most notably, also zhonya) to exert dominance and that combo isn't as strong. Also the new "toys" (Liandry's, DFG, twin shadows) aren't as useful on him as on other AP mids, so he's worse off than before compared to them. Soniv has apparently always been picking up an early void staff on Viktor so I'll play him some when my computer gets fixed and see how I do (well, once BC is nerfed too so we don't see it everywhere), the penetration changes mean good for him, but as I preferred a typical 6-items endgame of sorcs(mercs)/augment/deathcap/zhonya/rylai/grail, abyssal or DFG (depending if I need to poke, chase people in my ult's AoE, or add some burst to get a priority target; also MR) it doesn't change as much for me. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Unfortunately, viktor is disabled, so experimentations must yield for now. I'll update OP once I actually feel a little less lost in this patch. (Soon TM) | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:32 necrosed wrote: bump, want to look at builds. Haven't been playing too much of him because flask is such a pain to deal with and I'm experimenting with other champs. I still build pretty much the same stuff. I am, however, finding myself getting my augment earlier or first so I can just shove my lane and run around. | ||
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Skithiryx
Australia648 Posts
Learning to manage mana again without having chalice has been interesting but flask helps fill the void a bit. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I'm wondering how I'll start now without the ward. I'm spec-ing 21 utility so if I want to hit at a specific timing (say I'm close to 6 and he won't be since I took Awareness, I ward a side and hug it so I know I can all-in without risks) I will be able to use the explorer ward, but in general playing aggro, esp. in the early levels with a champion like Viktor tends to attract those pesky junglers. And I'm not sure that flask+1 pot + ward compares well to boots+3. | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
Hrm, I've never tried going deep utility. It might be good since Viktor has so much damage already (I mean, who can clear a wave with just one skill mid-game?). Biscuit is very good, too. I like the chalice idea. Will give a try. | ||
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