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Viktor, the Machine Herald
Viktor is a powerhouse when played correctly. He offers a high amount of team utility as well as great burst and good range. It is amazing that people still don't know what Viktor does. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten "Omg what was that burst" or "Wait your ult silences? wtf?" Use this ignorance and destroy your enemies before they see it coming.
Patch Notes: + Show Spoiler + Release Passive: Evolving Technology Viktor starts with a Hex Core that provides him with stats and can be upgraded in the store to augment one of his abilities. The Hex Core can only be upgraded once, and cannot be sold back to the store. Power Transfer - Viktor blasts an enemy unit dealing magic damage, returning a portion of the damage dealt as a shield. Ability Augment: Increases Viktor's Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds Gravity Field - Viktor conjures a heavy gravitational field, slowing all enemies and stacking a debuff every 0.5 seconds. At 3 stacks enemies inside are stunned for 1.5 seconds. Ability Augment: Gravity Field has an additional 30% cast range. Death Ray - Viktor uses his robotic arm to fire a chaos beam that cuts across the field in a line, dealing damage to any opponents struck in its path. Ability Augment: Death Ray sets fire to enemies, dealing 30% additional magic damage over 4 seconds. Chaos Storm (Ultimate) - Viktor conjures a singularity on the field which deals magic damage and briefly silences enemies. The singularity then does magic damage to all nearby enemies every second. Viktor can redirect the singularity.
Ziggs Patch Power Transfer missile speed increased to 2000 from 1400 Gravity Field activation time reduced to 0.25 seconds from 0.5 Fixed a bug where Chaos Storm's tooltip stated that it dealt less damage than it actually did
PvP.net v1.61 Tuned Death Ray travel speeds and hitbox precision, especially when cast near walls Fixed an issue where Chaos Storm could sometimes be cast twice
Abilities
Passive: Evolving Technology (Innate): Viktor starts with an item that takes up one of his item slots, the Hex Core, that provides him with stats and can be upgraded in the store to augment one of his abilities and improve its stats. The Hex Core can only be upgraded once, for 1000 gold, and cannot be sold back to the store. Hex Core: Grants Viktor 3 ability power per level.
Upgrades:+ Show Spoiler +Augment Power: (Passive): Power Transfer increases Viktor's movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds. It grants him +3 ability power per level, +220 health and +6 health regeneration per 5 seconds. I don't have much experience with this augment. I have tried Viktor top a couple of times, but to no avail. At some point in the future I will experiment with it, but I think they need to change something about it to make it more desirable. Augment Gravity: (Passive): Gravity Field has an additional 30% cast range. It grants him +3 ability power per level, +200 mana, +10% cooldown reduction, +5 mana regeneration per 5 seconds. I have played around with support Viktor with some moderate success. This augment gives you additional range for your main utility spell, as well as other good stats for a support champ. Overall, this is non-standard play style though. Augment Death: (Passive): Death Ray sets fire to enemies, dealing 30% additional magic damage over 4 seconds. It grants him +3 ability power per level, +45 ability power. This is by and large Viktor's best augment. For only 1000g, it is extremely cost efficient and makes him a mid-game monster. At level 18, it gives Viktor an extra 99 AP, which is nothing to scoff at for only 1000g of early investment.
This passive is one of the reasons that a lot of people don't like Viktor. They hate that there is one less item slot to work with. Personally, I love this passive. It gives Viktor early-mid game dominance that scales well into late game. Missing that item slot can be annoying at times, but the benefits outweigh the negatives.
Q: Power Transfer: (Active): Viktor blasts an enemy unit for magic damage, returning 40% of the damage dealt before reduction as a shield for 3 seconds.
Range: 600 Cost: 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 mana Cooldown: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 seconds Magic Damage: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+0.65 per ability power) Shield: 32 / 50 / 68 / 86 / 104 (+0.26 per ability power)
Since they increased the particle speed on Viktor's Q, it makes it awesome for damage trades in mid. It does pretty strong damage even from level 1, and if anyone gets close enough to eat a Q, they also eat a laser and auto attacks. This is one of his many tools for lane dominance. It also synergizes extremely well with Rylai's and scales pretty strongly.
W: Gravity Field: (Active): Viktor conjures a gravitational imprisonment device in an area near him, slowing all enemies that pass above it. Whilst under its effect, enemies generate stacks every 0.25 seconds; at 3 stacks the target will be stunned for 1.5 seconds.
Cost: 65 mana Range: 625 Cooldown: 17 / 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 seconds Slow: 28 / 32 / 36 / 40 / 44 %
This move is one of the most underrated utility spells in the game right now. It's main use is a "Hey man, you can't go here, and if you do, you will get stunned" effect. It can help guard against ganks if you drop it on yourself (especially fun vs Mao or Lee Sin). It can block escape or engage routes. In team fights, it gives your team a massive advantage because it forces the other team to reposition while slowed or else get stunned and destroyed by your team. Grab one point of this at lvl 3 or 4, depending on how threatened you feel by ganks.
E: Death Ray: (Active): Viktor uses his robotic arm to fire a chaos beam that sweeps across the field in a chosen path, dealing magic damage to every enemy it hits.
Range: 700 Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana Cooldown: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 seconds Magic Damage: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+0.7 per ability power) Magic Damage: 21 / 34.5 / 48 / 61.5 / 75 (+0.21 per ability power)
This spell...oh my freaking god this spell, man. This is Viktor's bread and butter. People underestimate the damage this spell can dish out. At level 3 Death Ray, with your (death) augment, you can full clear a wave with 1 or 2 auto attacks on melee minions. The cast range is 700, but that is only where you are able to start the laser. The laser itself goes an additional ~500 range. This gives you a 1200 range poke that does massive damage. Max this first in mid.
R: Chaos Storm: (Active): Viktor conjures a chaos storm at the target location, dealing magic damage and silencing enemies in the area for 0.5 seconds. As it churns, the storm deals magic damage every second to nearby enemies for 7 seconds. Activating this ability again while the singularity is active will redirect it. The storm moves faster the closer it is to Viktor.
Range: 700 Cost: 125 / 175 / 225 mana Cooldown: 120 seconds Initial Magic Damage: 150 / 250 / 350 (+0.55 per ability power) Continuous Magic Damage: 40 / 60 / 80 (+0.2 per ability power) Total Magic Damage: 430 / 670 / 910 (+1.95 per ability power)
I love this ult. The burst and silence is ridiculously strong. Dropping this on the AP/AD carry makes them cry. Once activated, your enemies have to decide whether or not they're going to sit under the storm and take damage, or focus on repositioning (noticing a pattern?)
Blasting any member of the enemy team with full combo (R - E - Q) is sure to put them in a world of hurt. Couple that with a well placed W and hit multiple enemy team members, gg you've won the team fight.
Runes & Masteries: Flat MPen Reds, Flat MRegen Yellows, AP/Lvl Blues, Flat AP Quints
If against mages with more DoT damage - flat MR blues (ie Cass, Morg, etc.)
21/0/9 (Note: taking Swiftness instead of Meditation in Utility).
Item Build: Standard AP opening.
+ x3
I've been a fan of going x2, and then getting your death augment
WotA is just too good of an item right now to not get. Deathcap and Sorc boots are standard.
Note: I have moved Rylai's into Viktor core. The synergy between his Q, wota, and the slow/tankiness from Rylai's is too much to pass up.
Situational Items
Zhonya for armor. Abyssal isn't a bad item to grab because you'll often be close to the action once fights break out. Come later in the game, switching out Sorc boots for Ionian boots and getting a Void Staff isn't a bad idea. Viktor is somewhat limited in items because of his passive, so spots must be used efficiently. Observe how fights are going and use your intuition.
Play Style: So let's look at what tools we have. We've got a shield, a DON'T TAZE ME BRO zone, a 1200 range poke nuke, and a burst silence ult. Early levels (1-3), your burst isn't very big. Just farm for now. If you're getting harassed a lot, use your laser to grab as much cs as you can, and if you can poke your opponent as well, then it's just a bonus. Come lvl 4 (lvl 2 laser), your ability to trade is very good. After a couple of rounds of trying to harass you, your opponent will realize how much damage they're taking compared to you. If they don't learn, destroy them.
If you get ganked, you can drop your W on yourself or to cut off the jungler's advance and either do damage or get away relatively safely. I have turned many a gank into a successful 1v2 because of his W. Be very careful in lane until you have the W though, because you can be very open to dying depending on the enemy cc. If you are winning on trades, be prepared to be ganked.
Viktor's mana costs are pretty high, but with this rune/mastery build, you have 11 Mp5 at lvl 1. You will be required to use abilities wisely, which can make things difficult early game if you're struggling in lane. If you're finding yourself using a lot of mana in a match up, learn to last hit under tower and bide your time until you can either push the wave back or harass/zone the enemy enough to prevent being stuck under tower. For AP players, managing mana is important, and it's no different with Viktor.
At level 6, your burst is akin to that of Annie. Flash - R - E - Q - Ignite is such a massive amount of damage. If you don't want to fully commit, just your E Q poke is strong.
The great thing about Viktor's E is that it gives you lots of great angles to hit your enemies with. Use this to your advantage. Use it around corners, use it when your enemies think you're retreating, and shoot the laser straight back at them. Another positive is that you can use it while moving. It requires no cast time, so you can use it extremely offensively even if you are retreating. I can't tell you how many kills I've gotten on unsuspecting enemies.
In team fights, use your abilities to control your opponents. Drop your W on the tanks while you blow up their back line with your ult and E. Or drop your W on the carries and kite the tanks. It's dependent on each fight and each situation, and only experience will truly tell you what you need to place and where.
Overview: "Adapt or be removed." Viktor states, quite simply, what his job is. He forces your opponents to adapt and readjust throughout fights. While they are on the back foot and in an uncomfortable position, you tear them apart with your burst.
VODs + Show Spoiler +I will be updating this with more VODs/commentary in the future. http://www.own3d.tv/Soniv#/watch/427479First and only commentary I've ever done. It is somewhat outdated (I believe it's from before the Q particle speed buff), but it gives the general jist of the play style. http://www.own3d.tv/friendlyfirect/video/683924First game of Friendly Fire LAN tournament finals in CT. Enemy team skill level isn't that high, but it's a good display of Viktor's still dominant power after his ult bug fix. Really shows how quickly he can snowball on one enemy misstep.
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A few more notes from someone who has to carry soniv's viktor on a regular basis:
Late game vikor poke is VERY good. He sieges towers incredibly well because his E will wipe a minion wave and chunk anyone stupid enough to actually try to fight you.
Most enemies also tend to underestimate how much damage viktor actually does with his ult. If you can, try to build him into a teamcomp that is going to rely on grouping squishies together. This means grab a jungle who can chase away the damage threats (like shyvana) while viktor destroys the tank line or any squishies stupid enough to stay, or running someone like amumu who locks people in place.
Also, if anyone yells at you for trolling, just tell them that you wont be the worst troll they have ever had.
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I actually love Rylai on Viktor. It's not that much, I'll agree, especially considering your lack of free slots, but in the midgame the rylai/WotA combo combined with the range on several of your spells make you hard to take down in fights where you managed to dodge the initial burst. Q and E allow you to kite (using E well you can slow bruisers w/o entering their gap closer's range), while healing a hefty amount of HP thanks to the spell vamp, on not-too-long cds to top it off. Q is pretty underwhelming in lane but since it's your only single target spell, it's 5s cd and the shield becomes really good with AP and used on squishies, it gives you a lot of durability. I would still flee from AD carries and mages like Ryze/Cass, though.
Rylai is also really great in an AoE comp, your ult ensures a 7 seconds slow on the people caught in it, giving it good synergy with Ryze under ult, Cass, Fiddle, Morgana, etc.
CDR can go a long way on him, but resists can make him pretty tanky too, so I like to get Zhonya as soon as the enemy team starts targeting me. If you can hit the ult on several people the damage heals you real fast during those 2 seconds, especially if there are minions in the way too.
I'm still not sold on him top. While champs like Rumble, Swain, Ryze, Kennen have inherent tankiness and/or sustain, and means of actually preventing the enemy to reach them, Viktor will take damage if said enemy wants to commit, especially against gap closers since if you don't place W on you (thus giving them the opportunity to jump you before the stun, or ignore it and hit once it's on cd) they'll just dash over it to you.
TL;DR: - amazing pusher - can check bushes as the laser gives vision of where if hits (but is visible in the fog of war) - ult and W turn off when you die, so make sure to survive at least until their full duration expires! - great for clean-up against most threats on equal farm, bar AD carries (those crits... ) - Best mid, as other AP top outclass him - has both burst and sustained damage - huge utility, especially positioning-wise - does well in double WotA and/or AoE comps - itemization can get tricky when starting with drings because of lack of slots and others used by pots/wards - last but not least, fun as hell
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If there are things that anyone wants answered in the OP, please let me know. This is the first one of these I've done, so I didn't really know what to put. I will be willing to update and answer questions as they come up.
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Viktor definitely isn't a bad champion. In a game against a good Viktor while I was anivia, if I didn't stay away from him or kill him first, he would just instantly kill me, and we were both equally fed, but if I got near him his lazer just hit so hard.
I used the same build on him, and I loved it. Also he is a lot of fun and its sad so many people think hes bad.
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I enjoy playing him because I get to shift drag rumble ult every 10 seconds. I think he's a late game monster but getting there is a slow climb -.-
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Baa?21242 Posts
RoA is the way to go imo. You're going for mid-late game anyways so you might as well take the slow ramp up time and get a good lanining phase with cata/RoA.
Death Augment is the way to go.
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On January 20 2012 11:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: RoA is the way to go imo. You're going for mid-late game anyways so you might as well take the slow ramp up time and get a good lanining phase with cata/RoA.
Death Augment is the way to go.
I 100% disagree. Why would you be going for mid-late game? Viktor's augment makes his early-mid game INSANELY powerful. Why would I delay even more power by going catalyst? It is way more logical to get the early advantage of the 2 DRings which then ramps into augment power, and hextech strength.
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Also fast AP allows you to instaclear waves earlier — and since it's a line AoE, it's even better. Morgana, Gragas, etc. have nothing on you when it comes to instaclearing. I like the idea of RoA too at first, especially since before the hotfix balancing mana and harass could be tricky, but as he's already not the best in lane I think "gimping" him by delaying AP (and thus farming ability) by a lot can't be that useful.
Rylai gives you HP, util/mp5 yellows/blue helps your mana, and drings + fast rev gives you lane sustain, so I don't feel the need to dedicate one of those precious slots for a RoA.
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I've been playing a lot of viktor
Augment Death is gonna be your choice all the time.
I open Dring though in pretty much all matchups, I've found I can stay far enough back to avoid nearly all harass, while the mana gives me the ability to stay in lane and harass back with my lazer. I found opening Boots that I ran out of mana far before I would ever come close to running out of health, and lacked the juice to get lvl 3-9 kills. I've had no problem at all avoiding basically all damage barring xerath/brand.
Then the full item path is usually Dring/boots/dring/Death augment/ROA (or Dcap if your team is tanky and can peel for you)/Deathfires (or WOTA if you need sustain for poke wars etc, or Morellos if you cant get blue)/utility item (zhonya/banshee/rylai)
I would always build WOTA for lategame though, its obscenely strong on Viktor and can allow you to push forever as a single lazer minion wave will top you off.
Max R>E>Q>W, with one level in W as early as you feel you need it to avoid ganks.
DO NOT DESPERATION ULT, if you are going to die use it as early as you can, having it completely wasted and only be around for one second is a huge waste.
Running away while lazering is very strong, use smartcast on E at least, it allows you to use the skill much faster and works great, just flick it in the direction you want.
Viktor does have some pretty bad matchups Mid:
Kennen: You may get a kill early if you have a nice jungler or he's bad, but one he gets WOTA you will not be able to get him out of lane, and you will be much easier to gank than him when sticking around in lane. If his jungler is around when his ult is up expect to die, while he can lighting rush out of yours. Also his hitbox is small and hard to lazer.
Vlad: Same story really, too much sustain, but not as bad as Kennen because he probably wont kill you, just a farmfest.
Kassadin: Vik is actually not that bad against kass compared to other APs, but you still wont win trades when he silences you, I might try to max Q first, as you can get it off when he jumps you, but then he can harass you forever with his Q. Just ban kass.
Good Matchups:
Annie: You push too hard and outrange her hard Sion: great match, you can pop shield easy with E/Q, harass from far when shield is down with E, and push just as hard as he can. W prevents him from gettin up in yo grill. Malz: pay attention to his cooldowns and you get a lot of free harass, you can Q creeps to shield part of his Malefic visions if he uses it on you, and if you use ult early he sits under the whole thing if he ults you, you can push as hard as him. Karthus: Outrange, silence his ult, fat and easy to hit, shield his ult with Q a bit too.
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On January 20 2012 11:44 sob3k wrote: I've been playing a lot of viktor
Augment Death is gonna be your choice all the time.
I open Dring though in pretty much all matchups, I've found I can stay far enough back to avoid nearly all harass, while the mana gives me the ability to stay in lane and harass back with my lazer. I found opening Boots that I ran out of mana far before I would ever come close to running out of health, and lacked the juice to get lvl 3-9 kills. I've had no problem at all avoiding basically all damage barring xerath/brand.
Then the full item path is usually Dring/boots/dring/Death augment/ROA (or Dcap if your team is tanky and can peel for you)/Deathfires (or WOTA if you need sustain for poke wars etc, or Morellos if you cant get blue)/utility item (zhonya/banshee/rylai)
I would always build WOTA for lategame though, its obscenely strong on Viktor and can allow you to push forever as a single lazer minion wave will top you off.
Max R>E>Q>W, with one level in W as early as you feel you need it to avoid ganks.
DO NOT DESPERATION ULT, if you are going to die use it as early as you can, having it completely wasted and only be around for one second is a huge waste.
Running away while lazering is very strong, use smartcast on E at least, it allows you to use the skill much faster and works great, just flick it in the direction you want.
Viktor does have some pretty bad matchups Mid:
Kennen: You may get a kill early if you have a nice jungler or he's bad, but one he gets WOTA you will not be able to get him out of lane, and you will be much easier to gank than him when sticking around in lane. If his jungler is around when his ult is up expect to die, while he can lighting rush out of yours. Also his hitbox is small and hard to lazer.
Vlad: Same story really, too much sustain, but not as bad as Kennen because he probably wont kill you, just a farmfest.
Kassadin: Vik is actually not that bad against kass compared to other APs, but you still wont win trades when he silences you, I might try to max Q first, as you can get it off when he jumps you, but then he can harass you forever with his Q. Just ban kass.
Good Matchups:
Annie: You push too hard and outrange her hard Sion: great match, you can pop shield easy with E/Q, harass from far when shield is down with E, and push just as hard as he can. W prevents him from gettin up in yo grill. Malz: pay attention to his cooldowns and you get a lot of free harass, you can Q creeps to shield part of his Malefic visions if he uses it on you, and if you use ult early he sits under the whole thing if he ults you, you can push as hard as him. Karthus: Outrange, silence his ult, fat and easy to hit, shield his ult with Q a bit too.
I personally NEVER buy DRing first (on any mage). It doesn't fit my play style (aggressive), and I rarely run out of mana with boots unless I'm being balls to the wall aggressive spamming.
I generally have ALL moves on smartcast, but I take Viktor's off and put it to normal cast. How do you reliably get good angles with smart cast? Even with normal cast, I get it off very quickly.
I've had some trouble against Cass in lane pre-lvl 5 at least. Her Q E harass is so good lvl 2. Until you hit 5, avoid trading with her until you can actually deal good damage. As I said before, Viktor lvl 6 burst is insane, take advantage of it.
I haven't played against Vlad since his buff, so I can't comment on his strength. Kennen mid really doesn't have a bad lane, so putting it as a downside to Viktor seems redundant. I agree that Viktor does ok vs Kass, but you have to be very careful and selective with your trades once Kass hits 6.
At some point I'll update the OP with good and bad match-ups.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On January 20 2012 11:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 11:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: RoA is the way to go imo. You're going for mid-late game anyways so you might as well take the slow ramp up time and get a good lanining phase with cata/RoA.
Death Augment is the way to go. I 100% disagree. Why would you be going for mid-late game? Viktor's augment makes his early-mid game INSANELY powerful. Why would I delay even more power by going catalyst? It is way more logical to get the early advantage of the 2 DRings which then ramps into augment power, and hextech strength.
The augment sucks for early game his numbers aren't that good compared to other burst casters and his cooldowns are too high to compare to Vlad/Ryze sustain casters. It costs 1000 for 30% more damage on E which you'll only have maxed by level 13, at which point you should have farmed enough to have roa and augment anyways. rings suck.
Maxing E in lane is terrible since your mana costs/cooldowns arent good enough to outpush any of the common mids...
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On January 20 2012 12:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 11:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On January 20 2012 11:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: RoA is the way to go imo. You're going for mid-late game anyways so you might as well take the slow ramp up time and get a good lanining phase with cata/RoA.
Death Augment is the way to go. I 100% disagree. Why would you be going for mid-late game? Viktor's augment makes his early-mid game INSANELY powerful. Why would I delay even more power by going catalyst? It is way more logical to get the early advantage of the 2 DRings which then ramps into augment power, and hextech strength. The augment sucks for early game his numbers aren't that good compared to other burst casters and his cooldowns are too high to compare to Vlad/Ryze sustain casters. It costs 1000 for 30% more damage on E which you'll only have maxed by level 13, at which point you should have farmed enough to have roa and augment anyways. rings suck. Maxing E in lane is terrible since your mana costs/cooldowns arent good enough to outpush any of the common mids...
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It costs 1000g for 30% increased damage on E, 45 AP, and 3 AP per level. How is that even remotely bad.
You clearly have mana management issues if you are struggling in lane.
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Baa?21242 Posts
E costs 110 mana vs. 65, does 65 + .25AP more damage (with augment), and is on a 9 second ooldown vs. a 5 second cooldown. Only favorable comparison is its range but it's also dodgeable as opposed to Q. No reason to max E in lane over Q.
you shouldn't be using q shield to block enemy counters but you can aggressively auto attack in early levels and shield will block a bunch of minion damage and you'll come out ahead in trade. E doesn't give that. Q wins lanes E doesn't do shit until team fights ;d
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Baa?21242 Posts
On January 20 2012 11:41 Alaric wrote: Also fast AP allows you to instaclear waves earlier — and since it's a line AoE, it's even better. Morgana, Gragas, etc. have nothing on you when it comes to instaclearing.
What lol? your line AoE doesn't do enough damage to instaclear and you're not gonna have your augment in lane. Gragas and Morgana actually can instaclear with AoE since your line is not gonna hit all 6 enemy creeps except in very rare waves where pathing/aggro lines them up.
Its cooldown is also high enough that you can't both clear and harass with it so you're forced to choose ;d Unless your enemy is terrible at positioning and stands in the same line as his minions zz, even then the line is pretty narrow and any competent mid should be getting hit by too many Es...
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For aggressiveness? Q generally means you'll hit retaliation, which will hit you before you're shielded. Also, against a pusher you'll have trouble fighting him back, while E also has the advantage of being an excellent AoE spell for farming. I'd rather get E and poke them to death (but I don't generally play aggressive enough to get kills pre-6 with APs, except perhaps Ryze or Galio).
E.: yes, you'd have trouble farming+harassing with E, never denied that. But running scaling ap blues, flat ap quints, and doing boots+3->2dr allows me to almost instaclear already (I'd have to play him some again to make sure when I instaclear, and when I just need to finish off the minions). The double DR+augment is only ~500 more than catalyst anyway.
As for the AoE, I've found that I can line all 6 minions w/o any difficulty, perhaps just a little timing. Using the fact that the laser travels slowly and the minions are running toward you makes it easy, in my experience at least. :/
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Baa?21242 Posts
On January 20 2012 12:18 Alaric wrote: For aggressiveness? Q generally means you'll hit retaliation, which will hit you before you're shielded. Also, against a pusher you'll have trouble fighting him back, while E also has the advantage of being an excellent AoE spell for farming. I'd rather get E and poke them to death (but I don't generally play aggressive enough to get kills pre-6 with APs, except perhaps Ryze or Galio).
E.: yes, you'd have trouble farming+harassing with E, never denied that. But running scaling ap blues, flat ap quints, and doing boots+3->2dr allows me to almost instaclear already (I'd have to play him some again to make sure when I instaclear, and when I just need to finish off the minions). The double DR+augment is only ~500 more than catalyst anyway.
As for the AoE, I've found that I can line all 6 minions w/o any difficulty, perhaps just a little timing. Using the fact that the laser travels slowly and the minions are running toward you makes it easy, in my experience at least. :/
You're standing in front of your minions as the enemy minions come? WTF kind of opponents/junglers are letting you get away with that...? That tends not to work unless you're already ahead in lane :<
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On January 20 2012 12:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 11:41 Alaric wrote: Also fast AP allows you to instaclear waves earlier — and since it's a line AoE, it's even better. Morgana, Gragas, etc. have nothing on you when it comes to instaclearing.
What lol? your line AoE doesn't do enough damage to instaclear and you're not gonna have your augment in lane. Gragas and Morgana actually can instaclear with AoE since your line is not gonna hit all 6 enemy creeps except in very rare waves where pathing/aggro lines them up. Its cooldown is also high enough that you can't both clear and harass with it so you're forced to choose ;d Unless your enemy is terrible at positioning and stands in the same line as his minions zz, even then the line is pretty narrow and any competent mid should be getting hit by too many Es...
E should easily instaclear entire waves late, and by the time you get your augment it should clear melees with an AA or creep damage. I get all the ranged creeps and at least two of the melees with a diagonal shot every time I use it post aug, as one of the melee usually peels off. You can also instaclear the incoming wave while they are lined up in the exact same way sivir does. Have you played Viktor? E is probably the best minion clearing spell in the game.
If you dont use it from absolute max range its also one of the hardest skillshots to dodge in the game, as you cant tell what direction its going to go when cast. You can also almost always hit at least some creeps with every hit even if harassing, as you get to choose the vector, no matter where they stand you can put a line through two points.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On January 20 2012 12:36 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 12:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On January 20 2012 11:41 Alaric wrote: Also fast AP allows you to instaclear waves earlier — and since it's a line AoE, it's even better. Morgana, Gragas, etc. have nothing on you when it comes to instaclearing.
What lol? your line AoE doesn't do enough damage to instaclear and you're not gonna have your augment in lane. Gragas and Morgana actually can instaclear with AoE since your line is not gonna hit all 6 enemy creeps except in very rare waves where pathing/aggro lines them up. Its cooldown is also high enough that you can't both clear and harass with it so you're forced to choose ;d Unless your enemy is terrible at positioning and stands in the same line as his minions zz, even then the line is pretty narrow and any competent mid should be getting hit by too many Es... E should easily instaclear entire waves late, and by the time you get your augment it should clear melees with an AA or creep damage. I get all the ranged creeps and at least two of the melees with a diagonal shot every time I use it post aug, as one of the melee usually peels off. You can also instaclear the incoming wave while they are lined up in the exact same way sivir does. Have you played Viktor? E is probably the best minion clearing spell in the game. If you dont use it from absolute max range its also one of the hardest skillshots to dodge in the game, as you cant tell what direction its going to go when cast. You can also almost always hit at least some creeps with every hit even if harassing, as you get to choose the vector, no matter where they stand you can put a line through two points.
Then they walk cause they're paying a modicum of attention and your E misses. It's a skillshot, and every single skillshot boils down to both your skill and the opponent's skill in approximate equal parts. Skillshots are inherently harder and less reliable than a point and click, and a point and click will hit EVERY SINGLE TIME, and Q's uptime is so much higher than E with a 5 vs. 9 second cooldown, with only slightly less damage, that you need to hit like 80-90% of your Es to do equal damage as Q, and that's just unrealistic for a skillshot in lane against a not totally braindead opponent. If your opponent is so much worse than you that every skillshot hits, well, it really doesn't matter what you max or what you build.
And no I haven't played Viktor I just feel like theorycrafting and pulling shit out of my ass cause I'm bored WTF kind of stupid question is that why would you comment in a champion thread if you haven't played him?
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On January 20 2012 12:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 12:36 sob3k wrote:On January 20 2012 12:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On January 20 2012 11:41 Alaric wrote: Also fast AP allows you to instaclear waves earlier — and since it's a line AoE, it's even better. Morgana, Gragas, etc. have nothing on you when it comes to instaclearing.
What lol? your line AoE doesn't do enough damage to instaclear and you're not gonna have your augment in lane. Gragas and Morgana actually can instaclear with AoE since your line is not gonna hit all 6 enemy creeps except in very rare waves where pathing/aggro lines them up. Its cooldown is also high enough that you can't both clear and harass with it so you're forced to choose ;d Unless your enemy is terrible at positioning and stands in the same line as his minions zz, even then the line is pretty narrow and any competent mid should be getting hit by too many Es... E should easily instaclear entire waves late, and by the time you get your augment it should clear melees with an AA or creep damage. I get all the ranged creeps and at least two of the melees with a diagonal shot every time I use it post aug, as one of the melee usually peels off. You can also instaclear the incoming wave while they are lined up in the exact same way sivir does. Have you played Viktor? E is probably the best minion clearing spell in the game. Why on earth would they let you just walk up to them? If you dont use it from absolute max range its also one of the hardest skillshots to dodge in the game, as you cant tell what direction its going to go when cast. You can also almost always hit at least some creeps with every hit even if harassing, as you get to choose the vector, no matter where they stand you can put a line through two points. Then they walk cause they're paying a modicum of attention and your E misses. It's a skillshot, and every single skillshot boils down to both your skill and the opponent's skill in approximate equal parts. Skillshots are inherently harder and less reliable than a point and click, and a point and click will hit EVERY SINGLE TIME, and Q's uptime is so much higher than E with a 5 vs. 9 second cooldown, with only slightly less damage, that you need to hit like 80-90% of your Es to do equal damage as Q, and that's just unrealistic for a skillshot in lane against a not totally braindead opponent. If your opponent is so much worse than you that every skillshot hits, well, it really doesn't matter what you max or what you build. And no I haven't played Viktor I just feel like theorycrafting and pulling shit out of my ass cause I'm bored WTF kind of stupid question is that why would you comment in a champion thread if you haven't played him?
You will never hit mid champs with Q, because its range is 600. Annie outranges you. I actually cant even think of a spell other than Sions Q that doesn't outrange you. How on earth are you going to get in range? I ask if you'd played Viktor because using primarily Q Mid makes no sense whatsoever, you will literally never be able to use it against a decent player, and everytime you go in to try they will be guaranteed a free hit. You will be out of lane in 40 seconds.
It also doesn't matter if you hit every single Q every cooldown for massive DPS if every time you go in to trade you take twice that much damage, which is exactly what would happen if you actually got in range to use it.
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