EPTNot that I'd stop you.
[Champion] Viktor - Page 19
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Not that I'd stop you. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On March 03 2015 06:22 Ketara wrote: I don't think you would first item it ever. So many of the stats it gives are in the aura and the active is really best for roaming/teamfighting and not for laning, you don't want it if it's not mid game. If you need MR just buy a null mantle and sit on it IMO. Also if you need defense in a matchup why you no take Barrier/Heal. What matchups require MR, and in those matchups can you reasonably run Barrier instead of buying MR? Lissandra is one I've been doing it occasionally - that's a matchup that I think I'd rather have cleanse over barrier or heal (which begs the question, do I even need Abyssal in that situation?) Leblanc - I've generally struggled in this matchup across the board. Barrier is a solution, but then what happens when her ult is back? Pretty sure I still need the early MR. Diana? I figure having Abyssal against her is pretty nice and probably needed. She hurts =( I need probably a couple hundred more games before I'm actually content with giving a more definitive answer. On March 03 2015 06:25 Marmy wrote: 1v1 ban match your viktor vs my syndra lol go away | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Leblanc I'd imagine is a hard matchup, and one where I'd advocate going for Athenes over Morello. Athenes is gonna give you 25 MR, and more mana regen than Morello so you'll be better able to afford to just spam shit 24/7 and shove all day erryday. I'd try flat MR blues + Athenes, + one more Mantle if you need it against Leblanc and see if you can survive with that. MR/level runes are really good against Diana. She has no way to fight you pre 6 and when she hits 6 you've already gotten as much MR as flat runes, and it just scales better from there. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Had to go top after some guy locked in Ahri. Let's just say Rumble wins after a few items because you're dps-oriented but his dps > yours and he'll get tankier later while even with Abyssal and MR blues you die if Flash is down and he has ult. If he tries to use his shield to sustain Heat, you can punish it. He can zone you from the wave because better base MS, flamespitter > your autos in terms of range, and he won't draw aggro. A bitch of a match-up, that I'd have won without the Talon camping me from mid but that's probably the Rumble not being used to Viktor and taking way too much free damage. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Athenes + Mantle = 3200g 60 AP 50 MR Morello + Negatron = 3150g 80 AP 45 MR So it's basically the same cost, you lose 20 AP and gain 5 MR. The advantage to going Athenes is basically that you don't have to guaranteed invest in the Abyssal. If you build Athenes and you're doing fine, you just don't buy more MR after that, and if you really need to you grab the mantle which can turn into all sorts of things, or you can just sell it later without it being a big investment. The advantage to going Morello+Negatron is that it's somewhat more cost efficient earlier, but then it locks you into either Abyssal or GA, both of which I'm really not too fond of. I suppose if you have a lot of AP in top/jungle and they aren't going to be buying Abyssal themselves, it's maybe not so bad an idea. Or if it's some perfect storm of my mid matchup is shit and I really need the Morellos healing reduction too, like Leblanc mid Mundo top. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's the same number of item slots either way. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Morello + Negatron = 2 slots Athenes + Mantle = 2 slots | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Here's some rune and mastery pages for you, you buttbag. MASTERIES: 21/0/9 You can change movespeed to Summoner cooldowns if you want, dunno how often Viktor makes plays with aggressive flashes like an Annie does. 3 Archmage 2 Devastating Strikes is I THINK correct, I'd have to do a ton of math to confirm, which would be ugh. 21/9/0 If you think you need more defense against a point and click champion like Leblanc or whoever. Against Yasuo change Enchanted Armor to Block/Unyielding. RUNES: vs. AD - Mpen / Armor / AP per level / AP Offensive vs. AP - Mpen / HP per level / AP per level / AP Defensive vs. AP - Mpen / HP per level / MR / AP THERE YOU GO SONIV, NO EXCUSES NOW | ||
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Lost My Will To Live
Botswana601 Posts
This is all assuming you go 21/9, which imo is inferior to 21/0/9, except against really dumb AD champions mid. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Enchanted Armor is actually pretty much strictly better than Block/Unyielding, given the assumption that you're taking MR or Armor runes for the matchup and are going to buy an early Chalice or Armguard. Point for point it's about half as effective at level 1, and as soon as you buy the Cloth Armor / Mantle it becomes better, and continues to scale better throughout the game, while Block actually gets worse the more resistances you have. 3 Armor/MR is actually like 4x as good as 2 damage reduction later on in the game. There's a bunch of math in the Lux guide to show this. The matchups where you'd go 21/9 on Viktor are probably also the matchups where you'd favor getting a really early defensive item, so that's why I suggested it. The exception is Yasuo, since his kit has so much innate armor pen and his Q counts as an autoattack. Wukong also veers close to an exception case but I haven't seen a Wukong mid in a long time. In terms of 21/9/0 vs. 21/0/9, they both have their advantages. In terms of early game defensive stats, they're actually both about the same, because biscuits give you right around the same amount of defensive stats that you get from the 9 points in Defense. The advantage to 21/0/9 is you get the mana regen (pretty great), and either movespeed or summoner CDR reduction. Movespeed is much better against certain champions (Xerath) than others (Annie), while summoner CDR reduction is much more useful on certain champions (Annie) than others (Xerath). The advantage to 21/9/0 is you get defensive stats that scale throughout the game in bonus Armor/MR and bonus HP. So if the enemy champion isn't skillshot based and has 1v1 all in pressure throughout the game, 21/9/0 can be a stronger choice. But since a lot of the time as Viktor you're the one who is threatening to all in them, and you're going to build a ton of AP before starting on a defensive item, in general I'd prefer 21/0/9 on him I think. Not against Leblanc tho. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
That's more than Juggernaut with just one pot until you get ~1200 HP, and a single pot is also better than 3 points in Veteran's Scar. I'm not sure if Block and Unyielding are applied before or after resistances (I know Amumu's passive is, for example). But in general, Biscuiteer (and the potion duration mastery that unlocks it) alone beats out the defensive tree in the laning stage, which is usually where you're going to buy said defensive items early because of the match-ups. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Lost My Will To Live
Botswana601 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
9 bonus Armor = 0.225 armor per point of Enchanted Armor, right. If I buy a Cloth Armor, I'm at 24 bonus and get 0.6 So, if an attack does 100 damage, my Enchanted Armor stops 0.6 while Block stops 1. When you account for the rest of your resistances, and champion skills not being affected by block and doing a lot more than 100 damage, and armor helping against minion damage which in pre 6 fights can be like half of the damage dealt, it's pretty clear that Enchanted Armor wins. Yes, Block/Unyielding is better at level 1, but if you assume that you're going to buy either Chalice or Armguard pretty early, Enchanted Armor becomes better by your first or second back, and then continues to scale throughout the game. And it's not as though it does nothing at level 1, it really is roughly about half as good just with that 0.5 or whatever from runes. When Block/Unyielding is good is when you're expecting to take a lot of autoattack damage and are also expecting to not buy defensive items for a long time. So it's good for ADCs, and it's good for melees who will prefer damage items, like a Katarina or something. It's not the best thing for ranged APs, or for melees who will rush a tank item first. Again, if you're gonna go Augment > Morello > Void, you don't want Enchanted Armor, but then you probably want to go 21/0/9 in the first place so it's a moot argument. | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On March 05 2015 07:07 Ketara wrote: Like, here's some real basic numbers comparison. 9 bonus Armor = 0.225 armor per point of Enchanted Armor, right. If I buy a Cloth Armor, I'm at 24 bonus and get 0.6 So, if an attack does 100 damage, my Enchanted Armor stops 0.6 while Block stops 1. How much the 0.6 extra armor stops depends on how much armor you have already, it's clearly not 0.6 in every scenario. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Armor But the short version is that yes, no matter how much armor you have or don't have, 0.6 more armor is still just as effective. I think the disconnect here is that Roffles is thinking that 0.6 armor is ass, and 1 damage reduction is not ass. The reality is that they're both ass, but one is ass that scales and the other is ass that does not. | ||
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