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On November 21 2013 07:33 Slayer91 wrote:
Riot seems pretty overcautious on the taric/leona/soraka buffs, I think they underestimate the game changing ability of stuff like zyra/sona ult thresh hook etc
Maybe, but a 4 item tank leona (with bonus stats) is a terror in arams already even without added scaling.
I'm pretty pumped for the changes in general, the transitional period last year was fun, so much imba stuff to find :D
Let's see what this years league of warmogs/BCs is.
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On November 21 2013 09:28 canikizu wrote:
Pink only cost 75 gold now, and the duration is indefinite. Moreover, it's 5 health, so if you place pink and make sure to protect it, you'll be fine. Even if you don't protect it, the enemy will take a while to kill it, and you can just simply put another one down.
pretty sure it's 100 gold
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 21 2013 07:30 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 07:28 UnKooL wrote:
Wait so what stops ppl from playing supports mid? They suck at 1v1.Pretty good reason.
This isn't true whatsoever. Sona, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, and Taric are examples of champions who are EXCELLENT at 1v1 laning.
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Everything revealed thus far about this patch just seems so forced and ham-handed. Riot "wants support players to have options" but shoe-horns them into AP builds. They want farming junglers to be viable, but heavily incentivize lane camping. They want games to build comeback mechanics into the game, but insist on homogenizing power curves, and from the itemization revealed so far, it doesn't seem likely they will add the type of itemization that generates comeback timings.
I think the assist gold change is going to have far-reaching reverberations that Riot hasn't considered. When people start to figure things out, I don't think it's unrealistic that it starts distorting drafts. That's a LOT of gold being created that was only being moved around before. At 20 minutes, a 5v1 pick is generating more assist gold than kill gold. Consider what a 5v5 fight with 1-2 people getting all of the kills and everyone else getting full assist gold looks like. Obviously you still want a draft with a purpose and strong lanes and all that, but this puts a bias on the picks with low farm priority that generate 5 assists per wipe rather than just one or two. Sort of reminds me of Bounty Hunter.
And I think they missed the boat even more than usual with the support itemization. Philostone 4.0 gives more gold than Pickpocket? And Pickpocket has zero incentive to attack beyond the gold? It's even disincentivized, as you will lose trades over time to both of the other items' sustain. Philostone still has no combat relevant stats AND doesn't build into any of the stats supports are being forced into.
Perhaps most infuriating is that Crucible is actually sweet now, but, assuming Riot's gold changes actually give the amounts of gold they want, it's now too slot-inefficient to buy in most circumstances.
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On November 21 2013 09:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 07:30 nafta wrote:On November 21 2013 07:28 UnKooL wrote:
Wait so what stops ppl from playing supports mid? They suck at 1v1.Pretty good reason. This isn't true whatsoever. Sona, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, and Taric are examples of champions who are EXCELLENT at 1v1 laning.
Taric? :p
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I will go ahead and make two easy predictions that I've been making on the PBE all this time (and they didn't change anything that would effect them - in fact they buffed it)
1) The execute/gold share item will be must buy on every support *and* will be a high priority item for the ADC as well, they'll start with it if they can afford to, otherwise they'll get it first or second back. It pays for itself within a handful of procs considering the stats it has anyway. If you don't like the final item, there's nothing stopping you from selling it for something else.
2) Morgana Support. Hue hue, Hourglass.
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On November 21 2013 10:10 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On November 21 2013 07:30 nafta wrote:On November 21 2013 07:28 UnKooL wrote:
Wait so what stops ppl from playing supports mid? They suck at 1v1.Pretty good reason. This isn't true whatsoever. Sona, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, and Taric are examples of champions who are EXCELLENT at 1v1 laning. Taric? :p
Taric has sustain and a decent burst (it was even better before when hitting stuff would give him mana) and once you start itemising CDR he becomes really strong because he's friggin' hard to take down while still riding decent base damage, and his ult+Shatter is actually a decent combo even into the midgame.
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[Patch 3.14] League of Nerfs: Stop playing support+adc bot.
oh look, you need 600 AP to get to where you were season 3. goodluck. We're totally fine with fiddle and zyra though. GG
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Baa?21244 Posts
The term "hat" is now searchable in the item shop. (Finally!)
Just read this. TY based Riot.
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On November 21 2013 10:31 ItsFunToLose wrote:
[Patch 3.14] League of Nerfs: Stop playing support+adc bot.
oh look, you need 600 AP to get to where you were season 3. goodluck. We're totally fine with fiddle and zyra though. GG And Annie and Thresh. Depending on how much gold supports get now who knows who else is going to show up bot lane. :D
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So does this mean I can just roll whatever support I feel like in bottom lane now? Feelin bored, gunna play support ashe. Support maokai and nautilus ?
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I kind of dig the idea of pushing supports into being a specialized type of mage/tank/other-etc instead of a position, they're not necessarily critical for a team to have and I think it opens up a lot of diversity in theory. In practice I agree that it'll need a lot of zyra/fiddle shaped tuning.
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On November 21 2013 10:46 Parnage wrote:
So does this mean I can just roll whatever support I feel like in bottom lane now? Feelin bored, gunna play support ashe. Support maokai and nautilus ?
That is the theory. But you're still going to need to do two things:
1) Not lose the lane horribly. This eliminates many options, though I guess not any of the three you mentioned. (I was winning games with support nautilus anyway..)
2) Provide the correct type of contribution to your team.
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On November 21 2013 09:08 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:28 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Eve 100% ban rate for sure now. No oracles and you can't even pink your own lane to stop her ganks because the ward is visible WTF. Permanent stealth can't co-exist with lack of truesight. Although note that oracle's never did anything to eve because the vision range for oracles was less than the range where eve becomes visible
If this game was 1v1 you'd be right. In a team oracles did a lot by denying Eve entry points to the backline.
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Damn, Riot REALLY hates Lulu.
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On November 21 2013 10:54 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:08 thenexusp wrote:On November 21 2013 08:28 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Eve 100% ban rate for sure now. No oracles and you can't even pink your own lane to stop her ganks because the ward is visible WTF. Permanent stealth can't co-exist with lack of truesight. Although note that oracle's never did anything to eve because the vision range for oracles was less than the range where eve becomes visible If this game was 1v1 you'd be right. In a team oracles did a lot by denying Eve entry points to the backline.
Eh. Range on post-nerf oracles was so small by the time you see Eve via oracles she's in range to initiate. To really prevent Eve backstabs you always needed to place pink wards behind you.
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On November 21 2013 09:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 07:30 nafta wrote:On November 21 2013 07:28 UnKooL wrote:
Wait so what stops ppl from playing supports mid? They suck at 1v1.Pretty good reason. This isn't true whatsoever. Sona, Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, and Taric are examples of champions who are EXCELLENT at 1v1 laning.
Not with these changes.
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On November 21 2013 10:54 NovaTheFeared wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 09:08 thenexusp wrote:On November 21 2013 08:28 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Eve 100% ban rate for sure now. No oracles and you can't even pink your own lane to stop her ganks because the ward is visible WTF. Permanent stealth can't co-exist with lack of truesight. Although note that oracle's never did anything to eve because the vision range for oracles was less than the range where eve becomes visible If this game was 1v1 you'd be right. In a team oracles did a lot by denying Eve entry points to the backline.
No? A person standing anywhere is just as effective(well, ineffective) at detecting an Eve as a person with oracles. Pink ward spam was how you prevented her from getting easy/undetected flanks.
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On November 21 2013 11:01 GolemMadness wrote:
Damn, Riot REALLY hates Lulu.
eh. Lulu actually doesn't fare too badly with these changes. Her passive gets hit a bit, but it's honestly not that bad. Her Q got straight buffed. W nerfed, but you only need 50 AP to reach parity with old W movespeed boost, which isn't hard especially with new support items. You lost the AP bonus, but honestly you mostly used W to cc the enemy OR to help someone run away; in both cases the AP granting is pretty minimal imo. E got hit pretty hard.
Lulu fares pretty well in this patch compared to say Janna, who got absolutely hammered in every aspect.
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On November 21 2013 11:07 Ryuu314 wrote:eh. Lulu actually doesn't fare too badly with these changes. Her passive gets hit a bit, but it's honestly not that bad. Her Q got straight buffed. W nerfed, but you only need 50 AP to reach parity with old W movespeed boost, which isn't hard especially with new support items. You lost the AP bonus, but honestly you mostly used W to cc the enemy OR to help someone run away; in both cases the AP granting is pretty minimal imo. E got hit pretty hard. Lulu fares pretty well in this patch compared to say Janna, who got absolutely hammered in every aspect.
But it's after already nerfing her early game so much that she was already in a bad spot, compared to Janna, who's been top 3 in win percentage for a LONG time now. Lulu hasn't been good as a support for months now, and these changes will only make her less popular and viable.
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EPT
