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On November 21 2012 04:36 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:48 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:19 Slusher wrote:On November 21 2012 01:12 NpG)Explosive wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage. it does, new lichbane is still good but it's garbo compared to live lichbane I think it's about as good as before. By late game every champion has at least 80 armor so Lich Bane's damage was easily being reduced by 40-70%. It's much harder to reach those levels of MR, especially on targets the assassins who build Lich Bane are shooting for, so in general it's going to do as much/more damage than before (especially with the penetration changes). I'm mostly just butthurt about no null-magic mantle in the recipe, buying an early NMM when behind or in bad matchups on Fizz and not having to sell it later is pretty handy (and no I don't think chalice is a good option) you can still get negatron because you will need an abysal eventually but it's a bigger investment delays damage further. Hard to say, I'm trying not to judge to much until it's out and I haven't tried the pbe, but the lich change compounded my annoyance with GA nerf I'm not saying changes weren't needed but the changes to both will change the item progression for Fizz.
To be fair, GA completely needed the nerf.
BV appears to have changed from a 45s cooldown to refreshing after 25s of not taking damage from enemy champions. Nerf or buff? (Just talking about the spellshield part, the other stats on BV got nerfed but the cost is lower as well)
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United States47024 Posts
Nerf. The shield is less likely to be off when you need it. Teams still won't engage into an un-popped BVeil, so long as they have a visual indicator that your BVeil is up, and this means that your Veil won't come up to save you in-combat.
I understand the reasoning behind the change--losing a kill because of BVeil coming up mid-teamfight feels very random, but the change is still an overall nerf.
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BV is a nerf against poke comp that wouldn't let you recharge it, and a buff otherwise (if during a siege you can manage to avoid the poke for 25s it's good as well).
On November 21 2012 02:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Their comp is hilarious. Three AOE ults (two stuns and a slow), Ashe arrow, and two stealths. They just wreck people. Guess Eve is still pretty strong if she can get some kills, just not nearly as strong as before.
Eve lost 10% damage on a full health target at all points now (the buff on DFG's ratio matches the nerf on her ult's ratio), so assuming level 1 ult and 100 AP (reasonable with DFG and runes) she does 36% instead of 46%, which is a huge reduction, but it's not as big in the later parts of the game (E + 1-2 Q, or an ally nuke is still enough to finish off the target that ate DFG+ult), and the AoE's still rather strong early on, the DFG suffered the most so she isn't as good a "single" assassin but still works for the most part in AoE comps.
On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %.
Wait... Zyra's plants heal her if she has spellvamp, on top of proc-ing rylai? I knew she mas mind-boggingly stronger than Heimer when it comes to "turrets", but that on top of plant damage being magic... they gave her the full package. Well, good thing she doesn't want spellvamp in the first place.
Also, about Liandry's, iirc Ryze's spells during his ultimate retain their primary component (Q and W are single target) while the AoE damage dealt because of the ult is considered separately from the spell damage for those cases (rylai/liandry/spellvamp)?
On November 21 2012 00:56 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:37 TSBspartacus wrote:
Quick question. Vayne or Ezreal, which is best/most fun to play?
I like Vayne's true damage, but find her to be a bit squishy and vulnerable
I like Ezreal and played him a lot in free week, but he seems a bit too reliant on skillshots, which I can't land so much when my ping goes up (it goes up to 300-400 a couple of times each minute, tried fixing but BT sucks).
Edit: I played Ashe a lot, and play well with her. I tried Tristana for a while but it doesn't seem to click with my playstyle.
My playstyle is quite aggressive, relying on Ashe slows or simply being an unstoppable force with Olaf.
Champs I play:
Top: Olaf, Jax
Jungle: Nocturne, Jax, Olaf, Riven
Mid: Fizz
Support (If I have to): Soraka, Nunu
AD: Ashe, ???? Tristana and Draven are the most aggressive ADs in lane without comparison. Their burst potential is simply higher than everyone else. But if you like ashe it sounds like you like harassing in lane more than all-inning, which case you probably want to look towards caitlyn or kogmaw, maybe sivir.
Sivir actually has higher "burst" than Trist at level 2 if you use your W correctly to reset your animation. She has the highest burst of all AD carries before level 6 (depending on how she uses her Q Draven may do more, and he'll outdamage her if he lands 2 Q-powered autos, though), but all those that gain a nuke at level 6 (Draven, Trist, Graves, Ezreal) probably outburst her, and the others (Vayne, Twitch, Kog, Corki) have higher sustained damage anyway, or are picked for utility rather than damage (Cait, Ashe). I dunno where Varus stands in there.
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On November 21 2012 03:21 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more. .. This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold.
Why are you putting some misleading emphasis into my post? I didn't talk about all slow junglers. I specifically stated that you need a good ganking potential. You can also call that a camping jungler if you want.
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On November 21 2012 05:09 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 03:21 seRapH wrote:On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more. .. This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold. Why are you putting some misleading emphasis into my post? I didn't talk about all slow junglers. I specifically stated that you need a good ganking potential. You can also call that a camping jungler if you want.
Amumu is not slow.
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From the Wiki concerning Sword of the Divine:
-The active lets Garen make sure his Judgement spins deal critical strikes.
-The 3 allowed critical attacks are not considered used during this ability, they could be performed after the spin ends.
Fed Garen happy fun times.
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On November 21 2012 04:36 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:48 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:19 Slusher wrote:On November 21 2012 01:12 NpG)Explosive wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage. it does, new lichbane is still good but it's garbo compared to live lichbane I think it's about as good as before. By late game every champion has at least 80 armor so Lich Bane's damage was easily being reduced by 40-70%. It's much harder to reach those levels of MR, especially on targets the assassins who build Lich Bane are shooting for, so in general it's going to do as much/more damage than before (especially with the penetration changes). I'm mostly just butthurt about no null-magic mantle in the recipe, buying an early NMM when behind or in bad matchups on Fizz and not having to sell it later is pretty handy (and no I don't think chalice is a good option) you can still get negatron because you will need an abysal eventually but it's a bigger investment delays damage further. Hard to say, I'm trying not to judge to much until it's out and I haven't tried the pbe, but the lich change compounded my annoyance with GA nerf I'm not saying changes weren't needed but the changes to both will change the item progression for Fizz.
Let's be fair, 102.7% of champions are going to see changes to their item progression. Some will change to a greater degree than others, but all of them will change. Don't get hung up on it or you're going to be walking face first into a wall built out of spinning Garens come Season 3.
Edit: Above post applies to my metaphor. SotD Garen OP.
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Mikeal's Crucible
Unique Active: Removes all stuns, roots, taunts, fears, silences and slows on an ally and heals them for 150 + 15% of their missing health. (180 second cooldown)
Seems to be the item to rush for if one person's carrying your team. It's a QSS bonus so if you pair say morgana support + Vayne/Kog + cleanse + QSS(QSS upgrade?) + mikeal's crucible, you have an AD that cannot be CC'd and can gib the other team in seconds. Nice.
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United States23745 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:22 Requizen wrote:
From the Wiki concerning Sword of the Divine:
-The active lets Garen make sure his Judgement spins deal critical strikes.
-The 3 allowed critical attacks are not considered used during this ability, they could be performed after the spin ends.
Fed Garen happy fun times.
That sounds pretty broken lol. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a case of an item working differently with a champ than they intended.
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On November 21 2012 05:13 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 05:09 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 03:21 seRapH wrote:On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more. .. This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold. Why are you putting some misleading emphasis into my post? I didn't talk about all slow junglers. I specifically stated that you need a good ganking potential. You can also call that a camping jungler if you want. Amumu is not slow.
You didn't write that in your post, which made it misleading.
Mumu needs a lot of mana to clear fast, so if you hog blue buff, you can clear quite efficiently, but that is at the expense of your mid lane. Apart from that he is quite slow in my opinion.
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On November 21 2012 05:29 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 05:13 seRapH wrote:On November 21 2012 05:09 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 03:21 seRapH wrote:On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more. .. This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold. Why are you putting some misleading emphasis into my post? I didn't talk about all slow junglers. I specifically stated that you need a good ganking potential. You can also call that a camping jungler if you want. Amumu is not slow. You didn't write that in your post, which made it misleading. Mumu needs a lot of mana to clear fast, so if you hog blue buff, you can clear quite efficiently, but that is at the expense of your mid lane. Apart from that he is quite slow in my opinion.
Then you're doing it wrong. If you have W on all the time, yes. But if you just spam E and have Philo? You should never go oom, and couple that with Glacial for extra not-running-oom-ness
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No, just give something like a philo to Amumu and he's got all the mana he wants as long as you don't spam Q mindlessly.
Also what about the Banner of Command?
It looks like it could be good for a splitpush comp, promote a cannon minion then switch lane and use the passive minion damage increase to push that one fast too, but apart from that it only gives 50 AP, 30 armor and a 10 hp5 aura for 2400 gold. It's rather expensive for a support, even supposing that they'll get more gold (blasting wand isn't really interesting and there are other, better items than Emblem of Valor considering the stats granted), it also doesn't give enough for most AP carries or even tanky AP champs.
I know splitpush comps have different stat needs than (that? from? dunno) standard comps, but it seems like a pretty awkward item to build.
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This roughly matches my experience thus far. Practically everyone starts Machete, even those that don't technically need to, because otherwise clear times are too long and/or too unsafe. 21/9/0 is fairly standard because nothing past 9 in Defense is all that useful for jungling. Most junglers clock in just under 4:00 without a leash.
There are a couple of factors this data is missing. It doesn't tell you what the health level of the champion in question was when they finished, just their speed. For those familiar with S1 Jungling and the hazards of playing a jungler who wasn't secure, you'll immediately recognize this as an important omission. In addition, the biggest time sink in the jungle is the Small Camp -> Buff Camp opening. A lot, though not all, of what makes the faster junglers on this list fast is their ability to kill the Wolves/Blue or Wraiths/Red seamlessly without help. For junglers who get help I anticipate the median to rest closer to 3:45.
The important point being that we're currently obsessed with jungler speed because safety isn't an issue. In S3 it will be, and as a result Mundo's super-fast clear is somewhat meaningless when his only option upon its completion is to recall.
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List is missing Volibear. I'd remedy that if I had a PBE account :\
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This sheet is dumb because it doesn't say what hp you are at, being able to gank or continue farming is an important statistic, I bet pheonix udyr is still kick for clear+safety.
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make huge spreadsheet that took days.
forget to note the HP.
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United States47024 Posts
I consider the Blasting Wand in Banner of Command part of Riot's incessant need to make AP items significant components of support items (hence making them awkward for supports to buy).
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That spreadsheet is useless.
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United States47024 Posts
As of right now, the most useful spreadsheet to be made would be a new cost-efficiency spreadsheet that accounts for the minor adjustments to stats on the basic stat items, along with a gold value per mastery point table for the new masteries. Anything like jungle clear times is a bit too speculative to be practical at this point (you're assuming you know the optimal items/runes/masteries to clear).
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EPT
