• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:16
CEST 22:16
KST 05:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting4[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)74Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Ladder Impersonation (only maybe) Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW caster Sayle BW General Discussion Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw ASL20 General Discussion [ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1396 users

[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 140

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 280 Next
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 20 2012 22:14 GMT
#2781
On November 21 2012 07:10 seRapH wrote:
i'd have to disagree on the wota pickup. the spellvamp isn't very useful on supports, and while the aura is nice its severely outclassed by the extra hp/slow from rylais. we're also looking at a 1k gold difference but we're talking about full builds, right?


Were talking about nonsense that never happens. Rylais would be nice as well though. The WotA is only really worthwhile if no one else gets one (few seem to anymore) because you dont realize how much spellvamping 2 Bruisers, an AP carry + AD carry (expecially like MF or graves) can potentially do in a teamfight.
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 20 2012 22:15 GMT
#2782
On November 21 2012 06:59 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 06:51 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 21 2012 06:37 TheKefka wrote:
Wait why does everyone assume every jungler is going to start this new machete thing and not boots anymore,did I miss something and they raised the price of boots or something?

st.v was playing on pbe, he said machete was only useful if you needed the help on clears, otherwise skip it.


Either SaintVicious knows something I don't or he's getting a lot of help on Blue. In Season 2 most junglers could do a full health clear using boots with the right runes/masteries without any leash whatsoever. In Season 3 most junglers can't do that even starting Machete or Cloth Armor. If you know for a fact that your team is going to give you a load of help at level 1 then you could probably squeeze by on boots, but otherwise I call shenanigans.

all i know was, he was jungling jax, and he said at the end of the game, that he felt machete wasn't really necessary, despite giving easier first clear. I personally think machete is the exact kind of item Riot would want to avoid (an item that is completely necessary to do a certain role).
liftlift > tsm
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9774 Posts
November 20 2012 22:17 GMT
#2783
It's a few hundred hp considering how most champions nowadays use aoe spells.

AND IT'S NOT NONSENSE. Sona can 1v1 junglers/other supports and pick up kills in messy teamfights and get super fed npnp
boomer hands
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
November 20 2012 22:21 GMT
#2784
AP sucks for support because all good support heroes have bad ratios . It is purely to stop support Janna/Soraka/Lulu. The only supports that scale with AP decently is Zyra, the rest of the supports that do (lux, galio, zilean, karma, fiddle, Morg) are niche as of now.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:40 GMT
#2785
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 20 2012 22:49 GMT
#2786
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:52 GMT
#2787
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 20 2012 22:53 GMT
#2788
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:58 GMT
#2789
On November 21 2012 07:53 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[

i was saying they added ap to all these support items so that you can run a supporting hero as a farmer get all these good support items and still be able to farm in lane without being dominated. like if you went mid as any supporting hero and built current support items you wouldn't be able to stay in lane vs another mid. having the added ap helps you do that. you only need to outscale creep hp growth for the most part.=
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 20 2012 23:05 GMT
#2790
On November 21 2012 07:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:53 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[

i was saying they added ap to all these support items so that you can run a supporting hero as a farmer get all these good support items and still be able to farm in lane without being dominated. like if you went mid as any supporting hero and built current support items you wouldn't be able to stay in lane vs another mid. having the added ap helps you do that. you only need to outscale creep hp growth for the most part.=

That would imply they wanted supports to get that much farm. Clearly not, cuz they nerfed the living crap out of solo lane janna/soraka.
liftlift > tsm
Vingle
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada86 Posts
November 20 2012 23:06 GMT
#2791
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Is having a support mid really worth losing the damage of a traditional mid?

You seem to be suggesting a double support comp, which I think gives up too much midgame strength for utility.

How does Sej work bot though? O:
Protoss is a very funny race.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:15:34
November 20 2012 23:15 GMT
#2792
On November 21 2012 08:06 Vingle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Is having a support mid really worth losing the damage of a traditional mid?

You seem to be suggesting a double support comp, which I think gives up too much midgame strength for utility.

How does Sej work bot though? O:

I'm guessing you've never seen Dig's comp with raka mid, and lulu top? Supports with good ratios in a solo lane can end up being deadly brutal. That's why they nerfed raka and lulu ratios to the ground, because they were simply doing too much damage into midgame, and too much utility in late game.
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:19:10
November 20 2012 23:18 GMT
#2793
On November 21 2012 05:22 Requizen wrote:
From the Wiki concerning Sword of the Divine:

-The active lets Garen make sure his Judgement spins deal critical strikes.
-The 3 allowed critical attacks are not considered used during this ability, they could be performed after the spin ends.

Fed Garen happy fun times.

That's a good catch. Probably not a huge dps increase tho.

On November 21 2012 04:21 Numy wrote:
They pushed for less diverse jungle openings it seems. Can't really say pushed for more.

A good point. I just looked though. Machete brings no stats that can be used against other champs. That's disappointing. I probably won't start it.

It builds into these 3 items: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_Stone
Haven't heard much talk about
Spirit of the Ancient Golem
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
and Spirit of the Spectral Wraith
But it sounds dumb to put the buffs on an item when they already exist on the map.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
November 20 2012 23:19 GMT
#2794
Yeah, I guess the support ratios being garbage makes AP even less appealing. It seems useful on paper, but not as good in practice. I just find it so hard to believe that Riot finds all of their decisions to be rational. Aren't there enough people at the company that raise similar concerns that some people have here on TL? Like AP being hard to itemize on supports or how dumb sightstone actually is as an item. I just feel like there are so many little things that a small community is able to call bullshit on that Riot is just blissful unaware of.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 23:30 GMT
#2795
On November 21 2012 08:05 wei2coolman wrote:
That would imply they wanted supports to get that much farm. Clearly not, cuz they nerfed the living crap out of solo lane janna/soraka.

They want supports to do support things not damage. having enough ap to clear a wave helps keep control of mid lane (as well as punish roamers), having more than that makes a character into a regular ap carry. there are many many more support items in PBE. getting 2-3 by mid game and 3-4 overall adds a large benefit to your team. farm and going mid does NOT have to equal building a deathcap and ap and going for damage in any way. you can spend the extra money on utility items. something that is widely accepted in the dota community. and often support-y heroes can get farm positions from 4-5 like standard or 2-3 and even a couple 1's (like necrolyte)
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
November 20 2012 23:31 GMT
#2796
anyone else see an influx of shacos recently?
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 20 2012 23:32 GMT
#2797
On November 21 2012 08:31 arb wrote:
anyone else see an influx of shacos recently?


Happened at the start of S2 as well.

There's just something easy using Shaco to keel nubs. huk
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
November 20 2012 23:33 GMT
#2798
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?
Stay positive!
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:39:07
November 20 2012 23:37 GMT
#2799
On November 21 2012 08:33 remedium wrote:
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?


QWEWWR, R > W > Q > E, last two skills Q and E, it's player preference as to what is max'd second.
W is consistently the main skill for Rengar.

My build is pretty much pure DPS. Boots, Bladex2, Bruta, BT. If I get Necklace, it's typically after first or second Doran's Blade. GA for first defensive item. Clear wards, maximize your brush jump, get stacks.

On ulti ganks, I tend to lead with boosted E if I'm initiating, then QWE follow up. If there is CC from the champs in your lane, QEWQ. Try not to have double Q overlap too much.

Late game, it's all about 1HKO that AP or AD carry. Trading your life for a carry is well worth it. But play it right, you don't even die most of the time.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
November 20 2012 23:44 GMT
#2800
On November 21 2012 08:33 remedium wrote:
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?


I really dislike Rengar jungle since his Q CD nerf. You lose so much HP. I usually did max QWE(Of course R at 6/11/16). As for items I like going Boots/Doran/Necklace/Phage depends on how I'm doing, sometimes I delay Necklace to get Phage, turn Phage to TF and depending on enemy team I get an Omen or Spirit Visage. I'm not that great of a jungler but I've had success with that build. (Just to remind you it was before the Q CD nerf, I've played him after nerf like 2/3 times but I didn't like it, felt really slow.)
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 280 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 687
IndyStarCraft 132
ProTech76
BRAT_OK 76
Railgan 54
JuggernautJason36
Codebar 26
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1519
Larva 283
hero 254
Leta 250
Mini 139
Dewaltoss 83
sas.Sziky 38
NaDa 20
ggaemo 18
Movie 16
[ Show more ]
Shine 4
ZZZero.O 2
Dota 2
PGG 89
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
byalli588
shoxiejesuss486
Stewie2K398
Foxcn265
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu462
Other Games
FrodaN2119
fl0m689
Mlord398
Skadoodle271
Sick132
Pyrionflax88
markeloff58
ViBE41
Trikslyr40
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 54
• Reevou 4
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler92
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2163
• Doublelift1924
Other Games
• Shiphtur319
• WagamamaTV212
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 45m
Replay Cast
2h 45m
The PondCast
13h 45m
OSC
15h 45m
Wardi Open
1d 14h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.