• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:49
CET 00:49
KST 08:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? BW General Discussion Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1670 users

[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 140

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 280 Next
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 20 2012 22:14 GMT
#2781
On November 21 2012 07:10 seRapH wrote:
i'd have to disagree on the wota pickup. the spellvamp isn't very useful on supports, and while the aura is nice its severely outclassed by the extra hp/slow from rylais. we're also looking at a 1k gold difference but we're talking about full builds, right?


Were talking about nonsense that never happens. Rylais would be nice as well though. The WotA is only really worthwhile if no one else gets one (few seem to anymore) because you dont realize how much spellvamping 2 Bruisers, an AP carry + AD carry (expecially like MF or graves) can potentially do in a teamfight.
Freeeeeeedom
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 20 2012 22:15 GMT
#2782
On November 21 2012 06:59 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 06:51 wei2coolman wrote:
On November 21 2012 06:37 TheKefka wrote:
Wait why does everyone assume every jungler is going to start this new machete thing and not boots anymore,did I miss something and they raised the price of boots or something?

st.v was playing on pbe, he said machete was only useful if you needed the help on clears, otherwise skip it.


Either SaintVicious knows something I don't or he's getting a lot of help on Blue. In Season 2 most junglers could do a full health clear using boots with the right runes/masteries without any leash whatsoever. In Season 3 most junglers can't do that even starting Machete or Cloth Armor. If you know for a fact that your team is going to give you a load of help at level 1 then you could probably squeeze by on boots, but otherwise I call shenanigans.

all i know was, he was jungling jax, and he said at the end of the game, that he felt machete wasn't really necessary, despite giving easier first clear. I personally think machete is the exact kind of item Riot would want to avoid (an item that is completely necessary to do a certain role).
liftlift > tsm
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9776 Posts
November 20 2012 22:17 GMT
#2783
It's a few hundred hp considering how most champions nowadays use aoe spells.

AND IT'S NOT NONSENSE. Sona can 1v1 junglers/other supports and pick up kills in messy teamfights and get super fed npnp
boomer hands
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
November 20 2012 22:21 GMT
#2784
AP sucks for support because all good support heroes have bad ratios . It is purely to stop support Janna/Soraka/Lulu. The only supports that scale with AP decently is Zyra, the rest of the supports that do (lux, galio, zilean, karma, fiddle, Morg) are niche as of now.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:40 GMT
#2785
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 20 2012 22:49 GMT
#2786
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:52 GMT
#2787
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 20 2012 22:53 GMT
#2788
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 22:58 GMT
#2789
On November 21 2012 07:53 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[

i was saying they added ap to all these support items so that you can run a supporting hero as a farmer get all these good support items and still be able to farm in lane without being dominated. like if you went mid as any supporting hero and built current support items you wouldn't be able to stay in lane vs another mid. having the added ap helps you do that. you only need to outscale creep hp growth for the most part.=
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
November 20 2012 23:05 GMT
#2790
On November 21 2012 07:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:53 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Sorry I am tired. =[

i was saying they added ap to all these support items so that you can run a supporting hero as a farmer get all these good support items and still be able to farm in lane without being dominated. like if you went mid as any supporting hero and built current support items you wouldn't be able to stay in lane vs another mid. having the added ap helps you do that. you only need to outscale creep hp growth for the most part.=

That would imply they wanted supports to get that much farm. Clearly not, cuz they nerfed the living crap out of solo lane janna/soraka.
liftlift > tsm
Vingle
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada86 Posts
November 20 2012 23:06 GMT
#2791
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Is having a support mid really worth losing the damage of a traditional mid?

You seem to be suggesting a double support comp, which I think gives up too much midgame strength for utility.

How does Sej work bot though? O:
Protoss is a very funny race.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:15:34
November 20 2012 23:15 GMT
#2792
On November 21 2012 08:06 Vingle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Is having a support mid really worth losing the damage of a traditional mid?

You seem to be suggesting a double support comp, which I think gives up too much midgame strength for utility.

How does Sej work bot though? O:

I'm guessing you've never seen Dig's comp with raka mid, and lulu top? Supports with good ratios in a solo lane can end up being deadly brutal. That's why they nerfed raka and lulu ratios to the ground, because they were simply doing too much damage into midgame, and too much utility in late game.
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:19:10
November 20 2012 23:18 GMT
#2793
On November 21 2012 05:22 Requizen wrote:
From the Wiki concerning Sword of the Divine:

-The active lets Garen make sure his Judgement spins deal critical strikes.
-The 3 allowed critical attacks are not considered used during this ability, they could be performed after the spin ends.

Fed Garen happy fun times.

That's a good catch. Probably not a huge dps increase tho.

On November 21 2012 04:21 Numy wrote:
They pushed for less diverse jungle openings it seems. Can't really say pushed for more.

A good point. I just looked though. Machete brings no stats that can be used against other champs. That's disappointing. I probably won't start it.

It builds into these 3 items: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_Stone
Haven't heard much talk about
Spirit of the Ancient Golem
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
and Spirit of the Spectral Wraith
But it sounds dumb to put the buffs on an item when they already exist on the map.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
November 20 2012 23:19 GMT
#2794
Yeah, I guess the support ratios being garbage makes AP even less appealing. It seems useful on paper, but not as good in practice. I just find it so hard to believe that Riot finds all of their decisions to be rational. Aren't there enough people at the company that raise similar concerns that some people have here on TL? Like AP being hard to itemize on supports or how dumb sightstone actually is as an item. I just feel like there are so many little things that a small community is able to call bullshit on that Riot is just blissful unaware of.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 20 2012 23:30 GMT
#2795
On November 21 2012 08:05 wei2coolman wrote:
That would imply they wanted supports to get that much farm. Clearly not, cuz they nerfed the living crap out of solo lane janna/soraka.

They want supports to do support things not damage. having enough ap to clear a wave helps keep control of mid lane (as well as punish roamers), having more than that makes a character into a regular ap carry. there are many many more support items in PBE. getting 2-3 by mid game and 3-4 overall adds a large benefit to your team. farm and going mid does NOT have to equal building a deathcap and ap and going for damage in any way. you can spend the extra money on utility items. something that is widely accepted in the dota community. and often support-y heroes can get farm positions from 4-5 like standard or 2-3 and even a couple 1's (like necrolyte)
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
November 20 2012 23:31 GMT
#2796
anyone else see an influx of shacos recently?
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 20 2012 23:32 GMT
#2797
On November 21 2012 08:31 arb wrote:
anyone else see an influx of shacos recently?


Happened at the start of S2 as well.

There's just something easy using Shaco to keel nubs. huk
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
November 20 2012 23:33 GMT
#2798
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?
Stay positive!
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:39:07
November 20 2012 23:37 GMT
#2799
On November 21 2012 08:33 remedium wrote:
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?


QWEWWR, R > W > Q > E, last two skills Q and E, it's player preference as to what is max'd second.
W is consistently the main skill for Rengar.

My build is pretty much pure DPS. Boots, Bladex2, Bruta, BT. If I get Necklace, it's typically after first or second Doran's Blade. GA for first defensive item. Clear wards, maximize your brush jump, get stacks.

On ulti ganks, I tend to lead with boosted E if I'm initiating, then QWE follow up. If there is CC from the champs in your lane, QEWQ. Try not to have double Q overlap too much.

Late game, it's all about 1HKO that AP or AD carry. Trading your life for a carry is well worth it. But play it right, you don't even die most of the time.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
November 20 2012 23:44 GMT
#2800
On November 21 2012 08:33 remedium wrote:
Can someone explain jungle Rengar skill and item order?


I really dislike Rengar jungle since his Q CD nerf. You lose so much HP. I usually did max QWE(Of course R at 6/11/16). As for items I like going Boots/Doran/Necklace/Phage depends on how I'm doing, sometimes I delay Necklace to get Phage, turn Phage to TF and depending on enemy team I get an Omen or Spirit Visage. I'm not that great of a jungler but I've had success with that build. (Just to remind you it was before the Q CD nerf, I've played him after nerf like 2/3 times but I didn't like it, felt really slow.)
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Prev 1 138 139 140 141 142 280 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft288
elazer 146
SpeCial 39
CosmosSc2 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 489
Larva 139
Dota 2
syndereN1182
League of Legends
C9.Mang0149
Counter-Strike
Foxcn216
Other Games
Grubby5245
tarik_tv4056
summit1g2748
FrodaN834
RotterdaM168
Maynarde117
ArmadaUGS75
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 56
• musti20045 31
• davetesta12
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 46
• blackmanpl 25
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler99
League of Legends
• Doublelift4184
Other Games
• imaqtpie1373
• Shiphtur242
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12m
The PondCast
10h 12m
OSC
16h 12m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
1d
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV 2025
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.