EPT...after Jungle Malzahar, because the spreadsheet forgot about him.
[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 139
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
...after Jungle Malzahar, because the spreadsheet forgot about him. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:50 TheYango wrote: I consider the Blasting Wand in Banner of Command part of Riot's incessant need to make AP items significant components of support items (hence making them awkward for supports to buy). I don't see anything wrong with putting AP on support items. I can't think of any support that doesn't scale with AP, and having them deal a bit more damage or heal for a bit more is good as far as I'm concerned. You're mostly building the new support items for the actives anyway, the AP is just a bonus. The actives are so powerful if they removed the AP I could see the items still costing close to the same amount of gold. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:58 onlywonderboy wrote: I don't see anything wrong with putting AP on support items. I can't think of any support that doesn't scale with AP, and having them deal a bit more damage or heal for a bit more is good as far as I'm concerned. You're mostly building the new support items for the actives anyway, the AP is just a bonus. The actives are so powerful if they removed the AP I could see the items still costing close to the same amount of gold. "AP is useful" and "AP is cost-effective" are two different things. In the case of supports, AP isn't useful ENOUGH to be cost-effective, especially since AP often offers benefits that are strictly secondary to the support's goals. It's also priced partially around it's multiplicative benefit with other spell damage stats. Morello's as an item was a huge flop because Riot vastly overvalued how much AP is worth to a support. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:57 ManyCookies wrote: Definitely going to try "Push Push Push Push Push Push Push Push" Nunu on the PBE. Banner of Command, Captain's Boots, Aegis, Bloodboil the Siege Minion, Artificer Mastery (is there an item that has a general artificer effect?). Hell, Nunu actually can use both the AP and Armour on BoC fairly well. ...after Jungle Malzahar, because the spreadsheet forgot about him. He's surprisingly good. I started Q first and only prepped it once in fountain. The net result is you spawn your Voidling close to the end of the Wolves camp, which means you can take it with you to Blue. You tank blue for a bit so the voidling doesn't die too early, and between the two of you the clear goes fairly fast. So long as you apply similar principles throughout the rest of the clear it works fairly well. No idea how he'd manage it without blue buff though. Also, Jungle Akali is probably the most viable she's ever been. She clocked in around 3:45 with full health, the key problem being that she'll just sit on Machete forever because none of the upgrades are worth her while. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
On November 21 2012 05:38 Alaric wrote: Also what about the Banner of Command? It looks like it could be good for a splitpush comp, promote a cannon minion then switch lane and use the passive minion damage increase to push that one fast too, but apart from that it only gives 50 AP, 30 armor and a 10 hp5 aura for 2400 gold. It's rather expensive for a support, even supposing that they'll get more gold (blasting wand isn't really interesting and there are other, better items than Emblem of Valor considering the stats granted), it also doesn't give enough for most AP carries or even tanky AP champs. That passive sounds pretty good for Yorick XD. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:05 Seuss wrote: He's surprisingly good. I started Q first and only prepped it once in fountain. The net result is you spawn your Voidling close to the end of the Wolves camp, which means you can take it with you to Blue. You tank blue for a bit so the voidling doesn't die too early, and between the two of you the clear goes fairly fast. So long as you apply similar principles throughout the rest of the clear it works fairly well. No idea how he'd manage it without blue buff though. You actually want to prep Q all the way. The Voidling enrage happens after 14 seconds, meaning if you spawn the Voidling to do Wolves, it enrages right when you start Blue buff, which is what you want (Blue shouldn't take you more than 7 seconds, so the Voidling won't run out). | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:10 TheYango wrote: You actually want to prep Q all the way. The Voidling enrage happens after 15 seconds, meaning if you spawn the Voidling to do Wolves, it enrages right when you start Blue buff, which is what you want. 14 seconds actually, but since you'll be casting Q at 1:41 anyway that's fairly irrelevant. I think I'd want to play around with it more to be sure exactly how many charges I'd want. Unless you kill blue buff in 7 seconds having the voidling around for longer is probably better, so long as you don't let it die prematurely. This is especially true as it's much easier for your team to help you with Wolves than Blue. The number of charges also carries over to other camps a bit, so that's another layer of complication. Edit: Dueling edits, go. This isn't going to confuse people at all. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
EDIT: I have like 17k RP and 61k IP with all champions on the PBE, so if anyone wants to test some wild rune configuration/build, I'd be happy to assist. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
edit: Just looked closer. What a joke. If you're 3:51 into a game as Shaco and you haven't ganked something yet, you are doing it wrong. I'd be very curious to see this sheet with a couple more columns, such as remaining HP, remaining pots, and remaining mana. How silly. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
No point starting boots if you're going to be too low to gank. | ||
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Steelavocado
United States2123 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:37 TheKefka wrote: Wait why does everyone assume every jungler is going to start this new machete thing and not boots anymore,did I miss something and they raised the price of boots or something? st.v was playing on pbe, he said machete was only useful if you needed the help on clears, otherwise skip it. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:48 Steelavocado wrote: Quick question guys. I just got Gold for the first time in my LoL career. Will this carry over to season 3? yes | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:51 wei2coolman wrote: st.v was playing on pbe, he said machete was only useful if you needed the help on clears, otherwise skip it. Either SaintVicious knows something I don't or he's getting a lot of help on Blue. In Season 2 most junglers could do a full health clear using boots with the right runes/masteries without any leash whatsoever. In Season 3 most junglers can't do that even starting Machete or Cloth Armor. If you know for a fact that your team is going to give you a load of help at level 1 then you could probably squeeze by on boots, but otherwise I call shenanigans. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:39 TheYango wrote: Boots is also just significantly less safe than Machete due to the increased difficulty of camps. No point starting boots if you're going to be too low to gank. From what I saw camps aren't that strong tbh,not like they were in season 1 anyway. So instead of burning one or 2 pots on my way to gank with udyr now I'm gonna burn all 3 big deal lol. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On November 21 2012 06:03 TheYango wrote: "AP is useful" and "AP is cost-effective" are two different things. In the case of supports, AP isn't useful ENOUGH to be cost-effective, especially since AP often offers benefits that are strictly secondary to the support's goals. It's also priced partially around it's multiplicative benefit with other spell damage stats. Morello's as an item was a huge flop because Riot vastly overvalued how much AP is worth to a support. I kinda disagree with this sentiment. Its not that AP is ineffective or not efficient enough for supports, its two other reasons. 1. AP is expensive. Wards soak up so much support farm, as well as lack of CS, hoarding 1600 (or even 850) is rather difficult. 2. Someone needs to buy the utility items for the team. Someone has to have: Shurelias (preferably 2 people), Aegis (maybe 2 people until next season), probably Zekes, Frozen Heart/Randuins (hopefully not on the support if its not ali or leona). IMO if they had the gold for it people would probably build Support Soraka, Janna, Lulu something like: Shurelias, Aegis/Zekes(assume someone else has the other), WotA, Deathcap (or a utility AP like Zhonyas), Boots/Ward Slot. But no support could afford that build even in like a 60 min game. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
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