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On November 21 2012 02:49 Sausafeg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. Edit: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vAMa9.png) Passive gold. Noticeable difference, I guess. Does anyone else notice the increase in base movement speed on the PBE in this picture? I wonder if they have done this for everyone so that the boot nerfs aren't as noticable.
They have. They took 25 movement speed oof of all the boots and put it onto everyone's base speed - that was the whole point of the boots nerfs.
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United States23745 Posts
Their comp is hilarious. Three AOE ults (two stuns and a slow), Ashe arrow, and two stealths. They just wreck people. Guess Eve is still pretty strong if she can get some kills, just not nearly as strong as before.
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Rengar does so much damage with tanky items. It's ridic. Early Fnatic got wrecked by Eve so hard.
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On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant
Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all!
I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus (slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more.
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On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more.
..
This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold.
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On November 21 2012 03:21 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 03:10 BlueSpace wrote:On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant Lane snowball is a funny thing. It is boring to watch in pro games but I think anyone that wins his lane really hard, somehow feels entitled to win the entire game. At least a lot of the qq revolves around... I won my lane and now we loose, I hate you all! I think it will strengthen heroes that have a weak laning phase and are not that useful due to being denied easily as well as junglers that farm slowly but are strong in ganking. Characters benefiting from that which come to mind are Vayne (weak lane), Mumu and Rammus ( slow junglers with good ganking potential). I'm sure there are more. .. This change doesn't necessarily benefit slow junglers anyway, it benefits camping junglers. The opportunity cost of camping a lane is now lessened by global gold.
But the opportunity cost is also increased because banking has been removed. That's more relevant to experience than it is to gold, but it is still relevant.
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It's funny how the jungle changes always but udyr still stays godlike.
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It's mostly the design of pheonix stance that makes it retardedly op based on udyr having god awful mobility and burst and the awkwardness of using pheonix procs while stance dancing in fights.
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Has anyone ever watched Crumbzz's stream? holy shit that guy is so g00d.
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On November 21 2012 03:41 Kouda wrote:
Has anyone ever watched Crumbzz's stream? holy shit that guy is so g00d.
I guess,as long as he doesn't play rumble
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On November 21 2012 02:49 Sausafeg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. Edit: Passive gold. Noticeable difference, I guess. Does anyone else notice the increase in base movement speed on the PBE in this picture? I wonder if they have done this for everyone so that the boot nerfs aren't as noticable.
it was part of the boot announcement boots1 on anycharacter should be the same speed as live, they just want no shoes > boots to not be as big of a jump
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On November 21 2012 03:43 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 03:41 Kouda wrote:
Has anyone ever watched Crumbzz's stream? holy shit that guy is so g00d. I guess,as long as he doesn't play rumble
Well I learned a fuckton from just one of his Jax games. And his olaf is good. x_x
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On November 21 2012 03:41 Kouda wrote:
Has anyone ever watched Crumbzz's stream? holy shit that guy is so g00d.
Didn't he lose a whole bunch of games at the beginning of the season and had to play with mostly plat players?
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No crumbzz is just really good at top lane.
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On November 21 2012 02:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Their comp is hilarious. Three AOE ults (two stuns and a slow), Ashe arrow, and two stealths. They just wreck people. Guess Eve is still pretty strong if she can get some kills, just not nearly as strong as before.
Only thing they nerfed was DFG and her ult a bit. Her ult still does 15-25% of numerous enemy team's health in magic damage. Level 16 is still a 70% slow. For the kinds of comps that M5 is using the Eve/DFG nerfs aren't a huge deal.
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On November 21 2012 03:46 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 02:49 Sausafeg wrote:On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. Edit: Passive gold. Noticeable difference, I guess. Does anyone else notice the increase in base movement speed on the PBE in this picture? I wonder if they have done this for everyone so that the boot nerfs aren't as noticable. it was part of the boot announcement boots1 on anycharacter should be the same speed as live, they just want no shoes > boots to not be as big of a jump
This, esp. w/how they're pushing for more diverse L1 openings (Hunter's Machete in the jungle, Crystal Flask etc elsewhee) without people being unable to gank/escape if thei opposing number has a boots/3pots start.
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They pushed for less diverse jungle openings it seems. Can't really say pushed for more.
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On November 21 2012 04:21 Numy wrote:
They pushed for less diverse jungle openings it seems. Can't really say pushed for more.
Certain champs can open boots still, though it won't be nearly as fast as Machete. There's a couple that can do DBlade starts (Tiger Udyr for example), but again, few and far between.
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On November 21 2012 01:48 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:19 Slusher wrote:On November 21 2012 01:12 NpG)Explosive wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage. it does, new lichbane is still good but it's garbo compared to live lichbane I think it's about as good as before. By late game every champion has at least 80 armor so Lich Bane's damage was easily being reduced by 40-70%. It's much harder to reach those levels of MR, especially on targets the assassins who build Lich Bane are shooting for, so in general it's going to do as much/more damage than before (especially with the penetration changes).
I'm mostly just butthurt about no null-magic mantle in the recipe, buying an early NMM when behind or in bad matchups on Fizz and not having to sell it later is pretty handy (and no I don't think chalice is a good option) you can still get negatron because you will need an abysal eventually but it's a bigger investment delays damage further. Hard to say, I'm trying not to judge to much until it's out and I haven't tried the pbe, but the lich change compounded my annoyance with GA nerf I'm not saying changes weren't needed but the changes to both will change the item progression for Fizz.
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EPT
