|
Yay that means the AFKers in my games will have more gold than before? Time to win 4v5's!
|
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming.
|
On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming.
I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended.
|
One of the things about the passive gold gain that I haven't seen people mention much here is it means supports will have 20-25% more gold at all stages of the game.
|
Also jungle will have a bit more gold throughout the game.
It doesn't affect ADC and APmid very much (about the same gold) and it helps top lane be less immensely snowbally.
|
On November 21 2012 01:19 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:12 NpG)Explosive wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage. it does, new lichbane is still good but it's garbo compared to live lichbane
I think it's about as good as before. By late game every champion has at least 80 armor so Lich Bane's damage was easily being reduced by 40-70%. It's much harder to reach those levels of MR, especially on targets the assassins who build Lich Bane are shooting for, so in general it's going to do as much/more damage than before (especially with the penetration changes).
On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be current health, just that people are wildly overestimating the amount of damage they're going to do with Liandry's. It's really the Maw of Malmortius of AP items, something you don't bother with until the end of the game when you have nothing else to do but upgrade your Haunting Guise.
|
The more I read about the changes the more I think roaming ganky mid laners like say, Diana, are going to be a big deal in S3.
|
On November 21 2012 01:48 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. I'm not saying it shouldn't be current health, just that people are wildly overestimating the amount of damage they're going to do with Liandry's. It's really the Maw of Malmortius of AP items, something you don't bother with until the end of the game when you have nothing else to do but upgrade your Haunting Guise.
Well, for poke comps, it could be a really good item. When you're poking down full health teams, it's going to be doing more damage than it will at the end of a teamfight, so those types of champs who are good at poking and not engaging (Morg as one of the best, lolAPNid), it could be a nice addition.
I agree that it's not going to be "core" on every AP, but I like that we have more situational items that you build/don't build based on team comp, enemy team comp, or lane matchups. Adds a bit of flavor to the game, imo.
|
On November 21 2012 01:50 Ketara wrote:
The more I read about the changes the more I think roaming ganky mid laners like say, Diana, are going to be a big deal in S3.
Diana is already a big deal 
|
On November 21 2012 01:54 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:48 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. I'm not saying it shouldn't be current health, just that people are wildly overestimating the amount of damage they're going to do with Liandry's. It's really the Maw of Malmortius of AP items, something you don't bother with until the end of the game when you have nothing else to do but upgrade your Haunting Guise. Well, for poke comps, it could be a really good item. When you're poking down full health teams, it's going to be doing more damage than it will at the end of a teamfight, so those types of champs who are good at poking and not engaging (Morg as one of the best, lolAPNid), it could be a nice addition. I agree that it's not going to be "core" on every AP, but I like that we have more situational items that you build/don't build based on team comp, enemy team comp, or lane matchups. Adds a bit of flavor to the game, imo.
It's somewhat dubious even in a poke comp. Assume AP nid has only one item, either Liandry's or Deathcap (there's only 300g difference between them). At minimum range the difference in spear damage against a 2000 health target is going to be 34 damage in favor of Liandry's. At maximum range the difference in spear damage is going to be 64 damage in favor of Deathcap.
But 2000 health is a very generous assumption for a comp that likes to suddenly collapse around 15-20 minutes and just push/poke all day. In addition, all the other key poke comp APs (TF, Ziggs, Xerath, Orianna, Gragas) poke with AoE spells, halving the effectiveness of Liandry's. I'm not saying it's a bad item, just that in most cases you're better off sitting on Guise and building something else.
|
Edit: Oops, double post. Removed.
|
On November 21 2012 02:04 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:50 Ketara wrote:
The more I read about the changes the more I think roaming ganky mid laners like say, Diana, are going to be a big deal in S3. Diana is already a big deal
A bigger deal.
It'll be like Diana in Japan.
|
On November 20 2012 13:12 OutlaW- wrote:
This was asked earlier today.
Depending on the lane you max Q, otherwise W. You can get 3 points in W for the laning phase and then transition into maxing Q. Take Flash/TP but if you really want, ignite can work. Get Trinity first and then in no particular order IE/LW/GA depending on how well you are doing. Jax and Irelia rape you. You need to realize when you stop trading and just start farming from afar/under the tower. Just farm until you have your trinity and support your team with a tp countergank or 2 and ults. Farm farm. Can keep farming even longer, but this depends on the game(how hard your team is getting raped)
The other way to build GP is to go Trinity>tank items (FH, randuin, aegis, GA, you know the drill) but it's much less manly
It might just be me, but I don't see how you would get away with max Q in any commonly-played top lane with bankplank. You also really want flash/TP to get gp10s quickly without waiting too long or losing creep waves.
I'm probably less experienced to you, but I think maxing W first is much better in most match-ups you'll face. Even level 1 Q will have you run OOM in lane if you occasionally use W or harrass with Q (or, like me, sometimes misclick your Q). Leveling Q increases mana cost -- not by a huge amount, but it adds up -- while giving only +15 damage per level. Leveling W decreases its cooldown, adds +70 heal per level, and does not increase its mana cost.
Your goal is to farm farm farm, so you need to make sure you Q as many minions as you can and last hit any others. A single normal last hit is still worth much more than the Q bonus gold, so you'll always want to prioritize standing near creeps over maxing Q if it comes to that.
And maxing W over Q gives you much better trades if you're mainly using Q to farm. Several reasons:
- W scales 70hp per level; Q scales 15AD per level. If you're going bankplank, you probably have defensive runes and masteries and probably no apen, which makes the heal even better in terms of EHP gain.
- Leveling W reduces its cooldown. Leveling Q does not.
- Leveling W does not increase its mana cost. Leveling Q does.
If you're mostly using Q to last hit you won't have the mana to use it for harrass often, so the lower cooldown compared to W does not actually increase your effective DPS much. If you're mostly using Q to harrass the opponent, you might as well go for standard aggressive gangplank, use your damage to zone the enemy and get the gold advantage, and not bother with the GP10 at all. (Except philo because it's useful even without the gp10 part.)
I just dont see how the currently popular top lanes would allow you to get away with a max Q bankplank; you'll eat so much damage in lane that they'll easily force you to stay back and miss cs while you're waiting for the W cooldown.
But then again I also run 0/18/12 (for gp10 masteries) and gp10 quints, since if I'm going for a farm lane, might as well go all the way. You'll trade more favorably if you spend those runes/mastery points on damage instead of gp10 stuff.
|
Even Rainman has switched to Twitch now, I guess Twitch has some good deals for those Solo Queue streamers right now and probably pays more, always prefered Twitch because although the chat is ridiculously stupid most of the time, it's still more convenient than the whole IRC thingy. Own3d still has curse+clg for LoL though.
|
And here I was wondering why switching to the rat would get them more viewers.
|
On November 21 2012 02:26 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 13:12 OutlaW- wrote:
This was asked earlier today.
Depending on the lane you max Q, otherwise W. You can get 3 points in W for the laning phase and then transition into maxing Q. Take Flash/TP but if you really want, ignite can work. Get Trinity first and then in no particular order IE/LW/GA depending on how well you are doing. Jax and Irelia rape you. You need to realize when you stop trading and just start farming from afar/under the tower. Just farm until you have your trinity and support your team with a tp countergank or 2 and ults. Farm farm. Can keep farming even longer, but this depends on the game(how hard your team is getting raped)
The other way to build GP is to go Trinity>tank items (FH, randuin, aegis, GA, you know the drill) but it's much less manly It might just be me, but I don't see how you would get away with max Q in any commonly-played top lane with bankplank. You also really want flash/TP to get gp10s quickly without waiting too long or losing creep waves. I'm probably less experienced to you, but I think maxing W first is much better in most match-ups you'll face. Even level 1 Q will have you run OOM in lane if you occasionally use W or harrass with Q (or, like me, sometimes misclick your Q). Leveling Q increases mana cost -- not by a huge amount, but it adds up -- while giving only +15 damage per level. Leveling W decreases its cooldown, adds +70 heal per level, and does not increase its mana cost. Your goal is to farm farm farm, so you need to make sure you Q as many minions as you can and last hit any others. A single normal last hit is still worth much more than the Q bonus gold, so you'll always want to prioritize standing near creeps over maxing Q if it comes to that. And maxing W over Q gives you much better trades if you're mainly using Q to farm. Several reasons: - W scales 70hp per level; Q scales 15AD per level. If you're going bankplank, you probably have defensive runes and masteries and probably no apen, which makes the heal even better in terms of EHP gain. - Leveling W reduces its cooldown. Leveling Q does not. - Leveling W does not increase its mana cost. Leveling Q does. If you're mostly using Q to last hit you won't have the mana to use it for harrass often, so the lower cooldown compared to W does not actually increase your effective DPS much. If you're mostly using Q to harrass the opponent, you might as well go for standard aggressive gangplank, use your damage to zone the enemy and get the gold advantage, and not bother with the GP10 at all. (Except philo because it's useful even without the gp10 part.) I just dont see how the currently popular top lanes would allow you to get away with a max Q bankplank; you'll eat so much damage in lane that they'll easily force you to stay back and miss cs while you're waiting for the W cooldown. But then again I also run 0/18/12 (for gp10 masteries) and gp10 quints, since if I'm going for a farm lane, might as well go all the way. You'll trade more favorably if you spend those runes/mastery points on damage instead of gp10 stuff.
yes but leveling q gives you more ca$$$$$$$$$$$$hmoneyzzzzzzzzz
it's all about the $$$
|
On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended.
reduces lane snowball
increases supports strength
encourages roaming/ganking
i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant
|
On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant
Perhaps not bad, just unintended. Maybe it'll be all sunshine and flowers, but I wouldn't be surprised if some math comes up in the next couple months that makes something else stronger than it was previously.
I'm looking forward to it personally, I just occasionally like to play devil's advocate.
|
On November 21 2012 01:33 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health. Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting. Edit: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vAMa9.png) Passive gold. Noticeable difference, I guess.
Does anyone else notice the increase in base movement speed on the PBE in this picture? I wonder if they have done this for everyone so that the boot nerfs aren't as noticable.
|
United States23745 Posts
On November 21 2012 02:43 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:43 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 01:41 LaNague wrote:
whats the point of decreasing creep gold and increasing passive gold?
they allready have twisted treeline, dominion and proving grounds for pointless brawls. So why make summoners rift less about farming. I think the basic idea was to reduce the effect snowballing by reducing the effect of being zoned out hard. Especially top lane, where one kill or jungle presence can mean you miss multiple waves just from not being able to get near them at all. It's just going to have more effect elsewhere as well, which I don't think is what they intended. reduces lane snowball increases supports strength encourages roaming/ganking i dont see the bad points, farm is still easily good enough to be significant
This 100%. At a pro level it technically lowers the mechanical skill required because you won't be punished as hard for missing CS, but players that farm better are still going to get stronger. We haven't reached the point where it's more time effective to just kill the enemy (or fail and try again) and never farm. It should help the snowballing problem a bit, and I'm all for more roams and ganks.
Edit: In regards to boots, yes, they increased everyone's base movement speed by the amount boots got nerfed. So if you buy boots you will move the same speed, but if you don't open boots you still move faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
