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Quick question. Vayne or Ezreal, which is best/most fun to play?
I like Vayne's true damage, but find her to be a bit squishy and vulnerable
I like Ezreal and played him a lot in free week, but he seems a bit too reliant on skillshots, which I can't land so much when my ping goes up (it goes up to 300-400 a couple of times each minute, tried fixing but BT sucks).
Edit: I played Ashe a lot, and play well with her. I tried Tristana for a while but it doesn't seem to click with my playstyle.
My playstyle is quite aggressive, relying on Ashe slows or simply being an unstoppable force with Olaf.
Champs I play:
Top: Olaf, Jax
Jungle: Nocturne, Jax, Olaf, Riven
Mid: Fizz
Support (If I have to): Soraka, Nunu
AD: Ashe, ????
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On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well).
I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment.
She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment.
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Brand will also enjoy Lament quite a bit. His stun should work with it, and Rylai's isn't too out of his purchase area.
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Lament on Rumble is fucking ridiculous. 100% sure it's gonna be core on Rumble, that and Rylai's. Riot pls.
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On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment.
Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible.
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On November 21 2012 00:37 TSBspartacus wrote:
Quick question. Vayne or Ezreal, which is best/most fun to play?
I like Vayne's true damage, but find her to be a bit squishy and vulnerable
I like Ezreal and played him a lot in free week, but he seems a bit too reliant on skillshots, which I can't land so much when my ping goes up (it goes up to 300-400 a couple of times each minute, tried fixing but BT sucks).
Edit: I played Ashe a lot, and play well with her. I tried Tristana for a while but it doesn't seem to click with my playstyle.
My playstyle is quite aggressive, relying on Ashe slows or simply being an unstoppable force with Olaf.
Champs I play:
Top: Olaf, Jax
Jungle: Nocturne, Jax, Olaf, Riven
Mid: Fizz
Support (If I have to): Soraka, Nunu
AD: Ashe, ????
Tristana and Draven are the most aggressive ADs in lane without comparison. Their burst potential is simply higher than everyone else. But if you like ashe it sounds like you like harassing in lane more than all-inning, which case you probably want to look towards caitlyn or kogmaw, maybe sivir.
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Could somebody explain to me wat the new frames around the portraits in the loading screen are about? Can't find it in the patch notes
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wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba.
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On November 21 2012 00:58 romanov wrote:
Could somebody explain to me wat the new frames around the portraits in the loading screen are about? Can't find it in the patch notes
S2 end rankings
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On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba.
Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane?
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On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible.
Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights.
Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen.
Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it.
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On November 21 2012 00:56 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:37 TSBspartacus wrote:
Quick question. Vayne or Ezreal, which is best/most fun to play?
I like Vayne's true damage, but find her to be a bit squishy and vulnerable
I like Ezreal and played him a lot in free week, but he seems a bit too reliant on skillshots, which I can't land so much when my ping goes up (it goes up to 300-400 a couple of times each minute, tried fixing but BT sucks).
Edit: I played Ashe a lot, and play well with her. I tried Tristana for a while but it doesn't seem to click with my playstyle.
My playstyle is quite aggressive, relying on Ashe slows or simply being an unstoppable force with Olaf.
Champs I play:
Top: Olaf, Jax
Jungle: Nocturne, Jax, Olaf, Riven
Mid: Fizz
Support (If I have to): Soraka, Nunu
AD: Ashe, ???? Tristana and Draven are the most aggressive ADs in lane without comparison. Their burst potential is simply higher than everyone else. But if you like ashe it sounds like you like harassing in lane more than all-inning, which case you probably want to look towards caitlyn or kogmaw, maybe sivir.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I'm not that keen/confident on all-inning. I tried Sivir for a while quite a long time ago but the lack of burst and reliance on her boomerang didn't really fit with my playstyle. In regards to the harassing, I do like that but I enjoy a consistent high dps output too, like Ashe has lategame and how Ezreal's Q hits pretty hard and is nicely spammable.
The reason I ask Vayne or Ezreal is that they are both on sale and I have some spare RP floating around, but not sure which I should go for.
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I'd argue Vayne is MORE reliant on low ping than Ezreal. Yeah ez is reliant on skillshots, but his Q is one of the easiest ones to hit in the game (imo). Meanwhile if you slightly lag on Vayne you either 1) condemn someone the wrong direction or 2) just straight up die. Vayne is one of the most micro-intensive champs in the game (up there with Draven) and requires absolute precision in positioning and movement.
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On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane?
I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage.
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On November 21 2012 01:03 TSBspartacus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:56 seRapH wrote:On November 21 2012 00:37 TSBspartacus wrote:
Quick question. Vayne or Ezreal, which is best/most fun to play?
I like Vayne's true damage, but find her to be a bit squishy and vulnerable
I like Ezreal and played him a lot in free week, but he seems a bit too reliant on skillshots, which I can't land so much when my ping goes up (it goes up to 300-400 a couple of times each minute, tried fixing but BT sucks).
Edit: I played Ashe a lot, and play well with her. I tried Tristana for a while but it doesn't seem to click with my playstyle.
My playstyle is quite aggressive, relying on Ashe slows or simply being an unstoppable force with Olaf.
Champs I play:
Top: Olaf, Jax
Jungle: Nocturne, Jax, Olaf, Riven
Mid: Fizz
Support (If I have to): Soraka, Nunu
AD: Ashe, ???? Tristana and Draven are the most aggressive ADs in lane without comparison. Their burst potential is simply higher than everyone else. But if you like ashe it sounds like you like harassing in lane more than all-inning, which case you probably want to look towards caitlyn or kogmaw, maybe sivir. Thanks for the reply. Yeah I'm not that keen/confident on all-inning. I tried Sivir for a while quite a long time ago but the lack of burst and reliance on her boomerang didn't really fit with my playstyle. In regards to the harassing, I do like that but I enjoy a consistent high dps output too, like Ashe has lategame and how Ezreal's Q hits pretty hard and is nicely spammable. The reason I ask Vayne or Ezreal is that they are both on sale and I have some spare RP floating around, but not sure which I should go for.
The two are fairly different, both in lane and in teamfights.
Ezreal has by far a much stronger laning phase and midgame in general. It's also really hard to shut him down in lane because he can always just farm with mystic shot. In teamfights he likes to reposition and kite with arcane shift/trinity procs, and can often zone out lower range ADs like vayne from fights early on. Sure he's skillshot dependent, but high risk high reward.
Vayne fits high risk high reward much better though. Her short range means that instead of simply staying out of range from most abilities you're going to have to rely on your high movement speed and tumble to dodge them. Her laning phase is arguably the weakest of all ADs in the game, but her insane steroids make her one of the strongest in the lategame. If your team has one or two attack speed steroids, vayne becomes an absolute monster.
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Liandry's on mundo was fun the game i played on PBE with it. the poke was dumb. and agony + red buff was dumb too.
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On November 21 2012 01:12 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? I think the new lichbane will deal magical damage.
it does, new lichbane is still good but it's garbo compared to live lichbane
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On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane?
Magic.
On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it.
Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage.
But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health.
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I think I'll go with Ezreal, thanks for the replies. I like the idea of Vayne but it takes fast reactions playing with her up in peoples faces, while I get the impression Ezreal is the safer pick, especially since I already have a decent amount of games with him.
Thanks for the replies guys.
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On November 21 2012 01:29 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:01 Dusty wrote:On November 21 2012 00:58 Sermokala wrote:
wow. Malady gives 10% of your ap to your auto attacks. Nashors deathcap malady diana is so crazy on the pbe right now.
Thank god sotd got buried into the ground. that thing was silly imba. Is the 10% damage magic or physical like lich bane? Magic. Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 01:01 Requizen wrote:On November 21 2012 00:51 Seuss wrote:On November 21 2012 00:41 BlasiuS wrote:On November 20 2012 21:29 TheYango wrote:On November 20 2012 20:49 Shiv. wrote:On November 20 2012 20:40 Serelitz wrote:
Hell yes, Diana on sale. Got Zyra initially then wanted to wait for another expensive champ I wanted like Diana <3
And yeah I think both those are a bit too strong atm but I mostly want them for the playstyle anw. Those are two champions that particularly scare me consiering the new items. Zyra can make AWESOME use of the item that burns %HP when people's movement is impaired due to her E-Plants. She'll also be great with the new DFG which looks like it's been tailored for Diana. I recall Navi building pre-nerf DFG into GA on her, I reckon this route will even be more viable with the new DFG. Still, they are awesome champions. The Guise upgrade is more or less going to be suitable for those APs that have AoE DoT damage coupled with reliable slows. This actually doesn't really characterize Zyra at all. Note that it's likely that her plant's damage will probably count as AoE for the purpose of the Liandry's proc, since they count as AoE for the purpose of determining Rylai's slow % and spellvamp %. The effect has half duration on DoTs and on AoEs, but the DoT refreshes the effect, and the duration isn't a huge deal with your DoT effect constantly refreshing the debuff. It's obviously meant to have synergy with Rylai's but the champs that benefit most obviously from it without Rylai's are Anivia and Cassiopeia (note that while both champs have AoE DoT spells, they also have single-target nukes to apply/refresh the single-target version of the debuff as well). I think some champions that like to open with cc then do a burst combo will also benefit enormously from liandry's torment. The specific example I have in mind is Ahri. IIRC each of the 3 fires on her W count as single-target damage for the purposes of rylai's, and so the same will be true from liandry's torment. She also likes to open with her charm. Charm -> fox-fire -> first dash of ult can all hit while charmed, proccing the full 10% 4 times in a row. Ahri gets significant burst from liandry's torment. Liandry's is the opposite of burst. To the best of my knowledge if you hit someone before the DoT has run out you just overwrite the DoT, it's not like Draven's passive which rolls in previous damage. Between this and the fact that its damage is based on current health, Liandry's is actually a fairly terrible item on a burst champion. It's strong for poke or champions who can constantly reapply the DoT, but in a burst combo it's completely negligible. Ooh, I hadn't thought about it on poke champions. It's obviously good on sustained damage champs (who keep it up all the time), but poke champions can use it to really whittle people down before fights. Effect is halved on multi-target abilities though, so who has really strong single target poke? Rumble's spears obviously (yeah, this is going to be core on him no doubt), Xerath if he can use E as poke, Elise, Brand (Q kind of), Vlad (again, this will probably be core on him, Q in lane will be dumb), Morg, Annie, Kennen. Malz may enjoy it for the % health stacking with his pool and ult combo, even if he only gets half effectiveness out of it. Liandry's costs 2900g to build. Vlad, Malz et al aren't going to dominate their lanes with this item because by the time they finish it laning will be all but over. Also, DoT spells (e.g. Malefic Visions) reapply Liandry's with each tick, so even though each proc will only last 1.5 seconds you can easily get 4-6 seconds from a single DoT spell. Swain's Lazerbird+Torment combo will easily do 24% of someone's current health in damage. But keep in mind that for practical purposes you never get as much damage from the proc as you think. If a 300 AP Swain is using that combo on a 2000 health target with negligible MR, the 24% won't amount to 480 damage. Because of all the other damage being done Liandry's will only contribute around 200 damage. That's the weakness of a DoT which deals damage based on current health.
Well, I think that was kind of the point in their minds. If you do total health, it either has to have a big drawback (MBR not being great for ADs because the proc is magic damage, etc), or it's OP at whatever point in the game (Vayne/Kog). Current health is a bit easier to balance, though I guess it's not as exciting.
Edit:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vAMa9.png)
Passive gold. Noticeable difference, I guess.
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EPT
