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[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 142

Forum Index > LoL General
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beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
November 21 2012 00:46 GMT
#2821
CLG going to scrim Fear and then TSM later tonight. *excited*
Hope TSM allows streams.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 21 2012 00:49 GMT
#2822
Spirit Stone also gives similar regen to Philo while also providing nice build paths and not taking the other slot. Lack of gp5 of course, but that should be less of an issue with the ambient gold increase. Maybe we'll see some deeper Utility jungle builds for the gold masteries, but I doubt it.
It's your boy Guzma!
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 21 2012 00:54 GMT
#2823
On November 21 2012 08:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
Yeah, I guess the support ratios being garbage makes AP even less appealing. It seems useful on paper, but not as good in practice. I just find it so hard to believe that Riot finds all of their decisions to be rational. Aren't there enough people at the company that raise similar concerns that some people have here on TL? Like AP being hard to itemize on supports or how dumb sightstone actually is as an item. I just feel like there are so many little things that a small community is able to call bullshit on that Riot is just blissful unaware of.


The answer is no, no they don't. Their fundamental ability to consistently contradict themselves saying, "XXX" is bad design (because it is) then immediately making more of XXX. Riot is too busy talking about toplane snowball (then introducing snowbally toplane champs and snowbally toplane items) to understand what is going on in a diverse meta.
Freeeeeeedom
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 21 2012 00:58 GMT
#2824
The best example is when they used "passive gameplay" to refer both to laners playing passively against one another as well as to junglers farming and not ganking enough--when the two are partially antithetical to one another (making laners safer disincentivizes ganking; making ganks easier to pull off encourages laners to play safer). Thus they more or less referred to every relevant change as "addressing passive gameplay" while actually doing nothing to combat either problem.
Moderator
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 21 2012 01:01 GMT
#2825
On November 21 2012 09:40 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, I'm seeing Bottle as the most likely regen option for junglers (supplemented by some potions).

It's price point is really good--it's essentially 2 HP pots and a mana pot every time you go back to base, for basically twice the cost of those pots. By your 3rd trip back to base, it's worth its weight in potions (and a regen item that compares to potions for cost-effectiveness is pretty freaking good).

Philo looks a lot less appealing when Riot took a dump on Shurelya's.


You can actually start Cloth/Machete + Vial on a fair number of junglers, provided you pick up Greed and Wealth in utility. At that point you might as well be 9/0/21 or 0/9/21, but it's a very safe opening as you've got a ward for invasions, 380 healing and 160 mana. Whether it's worth the loss of deep Offense/Defense masteries is a tough judgement call.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 21 2012 01:07 GMT
#2826
I was thinking more in the long run, say, buying Boots+Bottle on first back.

Starting with it is an interesting idea, but as you said, might not be practical.
Moderator
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
November 21 2012 01:07 GMT
#2827
On November 21 2012 09:23 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 09:14 OutlaW- wrote:
On November 21 2012 08:57 TheYango wrote:
On November 21 2012 08:06 Vingle wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:52 PrinceXizor wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:49 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 21 2012 07:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yango i took all the AP on support items to mean they want to encourage things like karma mid nami mid ect. put rumble/vlad top for your magic damage and use jungle for your bruisery thing and bot with blitz/alistar/leona/sejuani ect.

putting your support mid and having them farm the qss on other item, the command aura item among other items let's them still be able to clear stuff and ward while also getting the strong support items.


Nami's ratios are not that great. Karma's ratios will most likely take a big hit once her rework is out.

The best AP scaling on a support right now is probably Janna (0.9 on E, 1.4 on R with full cast).

k. totally not the point of what i was saying. at all.


Is having a support mid really worth losing the damage of a traditional mid?

You seem to be suggesting a double support comp, which I think gives up too much midgame strength for utility.

How does Sej work bot though? O:

Damage is not actually the limiting factor when it comes to picking supportive mid heroes. The thing is, a team doesn't actually need 3 fully-farmed damage points. We already know that 2-carry strategies with a supportive top laner or even 4-protects-1 strategies with only the AD as a main damage point are completely viable strategies, meaning that not having the mid AP as a primary damage point is not an insurmountable drawback.

The only real requirement is that you don't overfarm the mid AP--which is a mistake that is extremely easy to make with Janna or Soraka mid given how easily they instaclear. Even if they can clear a massive creep wave, they should cede farm to the higher position carries. The idea that a supportive AP mid causes you to lack damage only comes out of games where teams would misplay the teamcomp and vastly overfarm the supportive mid, with Janna/Soraka mid having the highest CS in game.

I'm sorry if this question is out of the blue, but - How do you teach yourself to understand the game? I want to be able to look at a team composition and be able to determine the winning strategy.. I just want to increase my knowledge of the game. How do I do that? Just think? Not sure if I'm smart enough for that.


Just for reference, I talk to Yango almost everyday.
Get fucking knowledge bombed almost everyday

It's almost overwhelming...

Oh, and Navi too. fk

Wat
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 21 2012 01:21 GMT
#2828
How do I get in on the knowledge bomb workshop, and will the government list me as a terrorist if I do?
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
November 21 2012 01:28 GMT
#2829
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/oldmaneyebrows/22407-old-man-eyebrows-guide-to-season-3-starting

Interesting what starts you can do come season three. We'll see what works out to be best. I'm somewhat intrigued by bottle+3 wards on a support, especially one like sona who can expect to take some harass back in many cases. Give up a bit of GP10 but hit much more often, especially since you never have to use heal unless your AD gets hit.

mana crystal + pots on Ryze. Scary thought, his early game might have actually improved a bit since he gets a mana item faster (tear).

Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 21 2012 01:29 GMT
#2830
On November 21 2012 09:21 Alaric wrote:
Also: Brand vs Elise.
Spider form, Pyroclasm. Pyroclasm's ablazed bonus.

Need I say more about the death trap if you jump on him? :3



Elise presses E; Brand quietly weeps.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
November 21 2012 01:31 GMT
#2831
That E is so broken, too, but I hope they never nerf it
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 01:33:57
November 21 2012 01:32 GMT
#2832
Honestly, just watching the high level TL streams and just reading their posts whenever I pass by them has given me a lot of knowledge and understanding that I would have never known otherwise. Slayer's argument for building philo stone on Udyr was like the most gigantic knowledge bomb ever and completely changed how I played Udyr back when everyone was basically going merc+wits rush, Jatt style. Slayer was proposing a different way of building (and ultimately, playing) Udyr that was very, very uncommon at the time. Months later, basically everyone was building philo. I was able to bring up my super abysmal 20% winrate on Udyr all the way up to like 60% over the course of the season just by taking notes of the things he posted in this subforum over the months. I was so skeptical about his build but god am I glad that I took his suggestion seriously and tried it earnestly.

Smash telling me that I'm dumb whenever I said/thought something dumb has also always been helpful. Feels like the old BW forum, basically.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23464 Posts
November 21 2012 01:34 GMT
#2833
im pretty beast at udyr
aka Teutonica
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
November 21 2012 01:34 GMT
#2834
was
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23464 Posts
November 21 2012 01:36 GMT
#2835
playing him again now that I realized I can close lolcient.exe so my laptop isnt that laggy that I can only play amumu and malphite and support LOL
aka Teutonica
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 21 2012 01:37 GMT
#2836
On November 21 2012 10:36 Slayer91 wrote:
playing him again now that I realized I can close lolcient.exe so my laptop isnt that laggy that I can only play amumu and malphite and support LOL

Sometimes that wont be a problem but other times lolclient.exe will stay up and lag the shit out of me.
its really random
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 21 2012 01:38 GMT
#2837
Honestly dude, if it wasn't for you I probably would have completely stopped playing Udyr. Udyr was my favourite champion since I first started playing and when I just couldn't make him work once I hit lvl 30 and started playing ranked games I was really let down.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
November 21 2012 01:44 GMT
#2838
im kind of concerned that bottle is going to be good on lots and lots of people rather than just 1-2 roles. We'll see. One thing i think they could do to make it extremely interesting and also more role specific is have it refill on kill/assist.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 01:53:39
November 21 2012 01:51 GMT
#2839
On November 21 2012 10:44 UniversalSnip wrote:
im kind of concerned that bottle is going to be good on lots and lots of people rather than just 1-2 roles. We'll see. One thing i think they could do to make it extremely interesting and also more role specific is have it refill on kill/assist.

inb4 Sightstone+Bottle on all 5 players

Honestly I think Bottle and Sightstone both need to have 50% sell-back value, because otherwise they compare too aggressively to the corresponding consumables.
Moderator
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:11:26
November 21 2012 02:02 GMT
#2840
yeah i agree that they need to sell really badly. Even then they've increased the value of slots significantly which might limit the proliferation of these items a little, but they might be dominant, choice reducing buys. They just don't seem role specific enough.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
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