I don't think Illidan was changed in terms of his overall purpose and style as much as KT and Tychus were, though. Really the biggest change is that The Hunt is preferred over Metamorphasis now----and of course some talent changes are there--- but it's not like the way you approach fights is fundamentally different for him. Tychus has to be drafted in an entirely different way now, and KT definitely has significant style changes that people have to work through.

That isn't to say Tychus or KT aren't weak, but I think there is a definite learning curve for them on par with a new hero because the talent changes were so transformative for their kits.

edit-> Also, if I look at Tychus's stats for the last seven days(current build) and master/diamond checked, his old talent trees come up. It looks like hotlogs is a little bugged right now?

MotherFox

United States1529 Posts

March 31 2016 21:13 GMT

#82

Maybe the most interesting effect of bans--- no hero has over a 44% popularity rate right now.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

March 31 2016 21:55 GMT

#83

I am happy Dehaka isn't too fun to play. Couldn't stand having this endless voice lines every game xD.

karazax

United States3737 Posts

March 31 2016 23:56 GMT

#84

Hopefully someone does find a build that improves Tychus and Kael'Thas win rates. I just can't recommend buying them today based on early results and the general negative first impressions of many pro players for both heroes. If you waited this long, might as well wait another week or so and see how they work out.

Just realized you can now map attack move to left click in game which is a nice change.

Larkin

United Kingdom7161 Posts

April 01 2016 00:20 GMT

#85

So as an old Sylvanas main I was intrigued by her rework and curious as to what kinda style I'd enjoy best with her. Opted for this build just now:

Overflowing Quiver, Withering Barrage, Unstable Poison, Wailing Arrow, Windrunner, Remorseless, (Bolt).

Game was over in 13:20 with me doing 39k damage, top in the game.

Man oh man the Withering Barrage/Remorseless combination is sick. Each Q counts as an ability, so you time your basic attacks just after each Q and you do an obscene amount of damage post 16 - around 100 with a Q and around 200 with the remorseless basic attack. At such a quick speed you can utterly destroy, well, anything. Great for structures, bosses, and heroes 1v1.

Gonna try out a few more different styles with her including a mind control based one. But yeah, impressive.

Pwere

Canada1557 Posts

April 01 2016 01:26 GMT

#86

Can a good Jaina explain why her win rate went from mediocre to top tier after what some described as a nerf? According to hotslogs, the new Ice Block + Ice Barrier combo is really strong, but her winrate is high with everything.

Also, it seems like my boy Nazeebo is back, even at Diamond+. The Gargantuan buff seems nice, and I think he's strong on Infernal Shrines, and pretty good on Cursed and Garden. Wall of Zombies is really annoying for Shrine fights, and he can stall the Curse forever.

I'm glad it's not all about Zagara anymore, even though I really like her, and she owns on BHB and Dragon.

Foxxan

Sweden3427 Posts

April 01 2016 01:57 GMT

#87

I like that more specialisations are relevant. Xul, sylvanas now to and zagara.
Nazeebo feels fine to me when the player knows how to play him. The nazeebo's in my games doesnt even use th garganuan but can still do amazing.

According to bakery, nazeeboo's numbers are good, why he isnt used is because his damage is random.

karazax

United States3737 Posts

April 01 2016 01:58 GMT

#88

I think Jaina is winning because some matchups you don't need iceblock, so you don't miss not having it until 20. That plus Li-Ming is often banned and Jaina was more likely to be drafted against Ming than on the same team. The other factor is that Kael'Thas is seeing lots of play with a poor win rate, again often pitted opposite Jaina. And of course it's only ~2 days worth of data.

Valiver

Caldeum1977 Posts

April 01 2016 02:13 GMT

#89

The other thing to consider is that most people think she got nerfed. Therefore the average player is avoiding her and only comfortable or experienced jaina players are playing her. It's just conjecture but that's my guess.

Larkin

United Kingdom7161 Posts

April 01 2016 02:39 GMT

#90

On April 01 2016 10:57 Foxxan wrote:

According to bakery, nazeeboo's numbers are good, why he isnt used is because his damage is random.

Not only this, but his damage is very spread out and over time except for a full hit with toads or a dominating ravenous. A good Naz in a good team can be pretty sick - zombie wall is a great pick tool, spiders damage stacks up, toads are solid, and both heroics are viable. But rarely will there be a situation in which a team is either good for Naz or the Naz is good for the team

I also think he is affected by the issue that other specialists are simply better. It doesn't mean he's bad, just that others do what he can do but better. Would you rather have Xul's root or zombie wall? Would you rather have Gargantuan or Devouring Maw?

That and his trait only boosts himself, compared to Sylv or Zagara for example which can provide pushing power/vision for the whole team.

Leolio

France633 Posts

April 01 2016 07:44 GMT

#91

The only Jaina I encountered in HL still played like the old yolo Jaina and fed our team. A Lot.
Hotslogs data on the 5 reworked heroes still include old talents, it's normal. It'll take 1 week to clear, like it did with Nova after her rework.

Deleted User 101379

4849 Posts

April 01 2016 07:50 GMT

#92

On April 01 2016 16:44 Leolio wrote:
The only Jaina I encountered in HL still played like the old yolo Jaina and fed our team. A Lot.
Hotslogs data on the 5 reworked heroes still include old talents, it's normal. It'll take 1 week to clear, like it did with Nova after her rework.

Set it to "Last 7 days (Current Patch)" in the date selector and you won't have old talents.

Leolio

France633 Posts

April 01 2016 08:16 GMT

#93

Oh thank you, this works very well. :-)

BTW I thought of something, it's really nice when they release a new hero and we don't cry all day long how much OP he is and how the game is Pay2Win. Even though there are bans now and it wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Right now all heroes seem viable, except maybe Gazlowe.

Superbanana

2369 Posts

April 01 2016 11:25 GMT

#94

So, i remember someone was talking about AA Valla build with vigorous strike + tempered by discipline.
I was playing around with her with tempered by discipline but manticore instead.
lvl 21 max hatred stacks and you can solo the core (fully outhealing the damage) without vigorous strikes. Thats pretty sick.

I played a hybrid build with: 1.composite arrows -> 2.manticore -> 3.searing attacks -> 4.RoV -> 5. tempered by discipline -> 6.BfB -> 7.nexus frenzy

Very far from what i would usually play on HL but it worked quite well.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

April 01 2016 11:37 GMT

#95

Always the same, Assassin omg op they kill me, even if they are not to good like Butcher. Tanks/Healers wow they suck. Unless something happens like Greymane who requires alot of decisionmaking that people don't have on the first day, or Leoric who pushed lanes better then most specialists.

Gazlow works pretty well. My team had to disengange I put down a turret and slow the whole enemy team. Targeting turrets is super strong.

As for Jaina people called it a nerf, but Ice Barrier got moved to 13 which is in most cases better then Iceblock. And now you can Combine Ice Barrier talents with the 16 Cone talents. And then you can even get a buffed improved Ice Block on 20.
I love it, but I have to mention that i rarely got Iceblock on 13, because of the Icy Veins + Ice Barrier Combo. Now nothing can harm you, just before 20 you have to watch out if a spell caster sets eyes on you and keep em slowed so they can't get in a good positioning for hitting you.
But I really have to learn how to use Ice Barrier better now, with Icy Veins it was never a problem.

ThomasjServo

15244 Posts

April 01 2016 11:55 GMT

#96

The kind of Jaina you pray is on the other team that seems incapable of seeing a zeratul shimmer. XD

Ej_

47656 Posts

April 01 2016 12:21 GMT

#97

Also worth considering that with Illidan's raise, you see a lot more Muradin picked and Muradin has natural synergy with Jaina.

ShoCkeyy

7815 Posts

April 01 2016 14:09 GMT

#98

Thoughts on the hot key changes? Anybody using them?

ThomasjServo

15244 Posts

April 01 2016 14:43 GMT

#99

tbh I completely forgot about it, I dunno, maybe I'll switch someone's trait off of the D key eventually.

Deleted User 101379

4849 Posts

April 01 2016 15:27 GMT

#100

On April 01 2016 23:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Thoughts on the hot key changes? Anybody using them?

I think it's more for people that use the on-release smartcast, which in my opinion is an abomination anyways since it's the worst of both worlds. Some skills were bugged with on-release, so this is one way to fix them.