On August 23 2015 06:37 Noidberg wrote: Tuskar Jouster is an inferior healbot when you are counting on the heal and in control matchups an inferior 5 drop. The card looks cute(as in the picture) but its nothing special. I will experiment with it though even if its a card that tries to do 2 things at once.
I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around whatever logic you're using here.
On August 23 2015 06:37 Noidberg wrote: Tuskar Jouster is an inferior healbot when you are counting on the heal and in control matchups an inferior 5 drop. The card looks cute(as in the picture) but its nothing special. I will experiment with it though even if its a card that tries to do 2 things at once.
I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around whatever logic you're using here.
How so? Even if you hit the heal 70% of the time against aggro decks what about the times you dont? Against face hunter you count on healbot for the health gain not the stats so missing it would be game ending. As for control matchups there are way better 5 drops than a vanilla 5 drop such as harrison,theb, consort. Sure the RNG is in your favor by naturally having a higher curve against aggressive decks but its still RNG.
Good RNG cards are usually tempo cards btw so if you have a slow card like tuskar and miss that roll goodbye game. This is not true as much for cards such as implosion where the warlock already has board or unstable portal which costs 2 mana, again the mage should have a board at that point.
What i would like is a solid say 5 mana 5/5 heal for 5 no RNG attached. If they want control paladin to be viable it needs something slightly overbudget that always works like warriors win axe or shieldmaiden. Everyone knows guardian of kings should be 6 mana to be competitive, Hammer could be 3 mana, seal of light could be 3 damage, argent lance could be 3 damage. Point is control paladins havent received any power creep since the base set and their position on the power ranks continues to support this.
On August 23 2015 06:37 Noidberg wrote: Tuskar Jouster is an inferior healbot when you are counting on the heal and in control matchups an inferior 5 drop. The card looks cute(as in the picture) but its nothing special. I will experiment with it though even if its a card that tries to do 2 things at once.
I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around whatever logic you're using here.
How so? Even if you hit the heal 70% of the time against aggro decks what about the times you dont? Against face hunter you count on healbot for the health gain not the stats so missing it would be game ending. As for control matchups there are way better 5 drops than a vanilla 5 drop such as harrison,theb, consort. Sure the RNG is in your favor by naturally having a higher curve against aggressive decks but its still RNG.
Good RNG cards are usually tempo cards btw so if you have a slow card like tuskar and miss that roll goodbye game. This is not true as much for cards such as implosion where the warlock already has board or unstable portal which costs 2 mana, again the mage should have a board at that point.
What i would like is a solid say 5 mana 5/5 heal for 5 no RNG attached. If they want control paladin to be viable it needs something slightly overbudget that always works like warriors win axe or shieldmaiden. Everyone knows guardian of kings should be 6 mana to be competitive, Hammer could be 3 mana, seal of light could be 3 damage, argent lance could be 3 damage. Point is control paladins havent received any power creep since the base set and their position on the power ranks continues to support this.
The most expensive minion in a Face Hunter costs 3, the odds of losing that joust are infinitesimal if not 0. And believe it or not, the body attached to Antique Healbot matters, saying it makes no difference in the Face Hunter matchup is ridiculous. Also, the 5/5 body is exactly what makes it ok in the case where you're against a higher-range deck and lose the joust. It kills Sludge Belcher and trades with Loatheb and Thaurissan. What exactly is the problem with doing 2 things if the card succeeds?
On August 23 2015 06:37 Noidberg wrote: Tuskar Jouster is an inferior healbot when you are counting on the heal and in control matchups an inferior 5 drop. The card looks cute(as in the picture) but its nothing special. I will experiment with it though even if its a card that tries to do 2 things at once.
I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around whatever logic you're using here.
How so? Even if you hit the heal 70% of the time against aggro decks what about the times you dont? Against face hunter you count on healbot for the health gain not the stats so missing it would be game ending. As for control matchups there are way better 5 drops than a vanilla 5 drop such as harrison,theb, consort. Sure the RNG is in your favor by naturally having a higher curve against aggressive decks but its still RNG.
Good RNG cards are usually tempo cards btw so if you have a slow card like tuskar and miss that roll goodbye game. This is not true as much for cards such as implosion where the warlock already has board or unstable portal which costs 2 mana, again the mage should have a board at that point.
What i would like is a solid say 5 mana 5/5 heal for 5 no RNG attached. If they want control paladin to be viable it needs something slightly overbudget that always works like warriors win axe or shieldmaiden. Everyone knows guardian of kings should be 6 mana to be competitive, Hammer could be 3 mana, seal of light could be 3 damage, argent lance could be 3 damage. Point is control paladins havent received any power creep since the base set and their position on the power ranks continues to support this.
The most expensive minion in a Face Hunter costs 3, the odds of losing that joust are infinitesimal if not 0. And believe it or not, the body attached to Antique Healbot matters, saying it makes no difference in the Face Hunter matchup is ridiculous. Also, the 5/5 body is exactly what makes it ok in the case where you're against a higher-range deck and lose the joust. It kills Sludge Belcher and trades with Loatheb and Thaurissan. What exactly is the problem with doing 2 things if the card succeeds?
And the cheapest minion in paladin is 1. Unless control works without the staple zombie chows(best anti aggro card in the game) or minibots, pyros you still have a chance of outright losing with tuskar. The heal is still the most important factor against aggro decks even if the +2/2 stats of course helps. As for control its a fair 5/5 but you can be doing much more with other cards. If paladin had a win axe i would agree this card would be insane but sadly thats not the case.
On August 23 2015 14:12 Noidberg wrote: And the cheapest minion in paladin is 1. Unless control works without the staple zombie chows(best anti aggro card in the game) or minibots, pyros you still have a chance of outright losing with tuskar. The heal is still the most important factor against aggro decks even if the +2/2 stats of course helps. As for control its a fair 5/5 but you can be doing much more with other cards. If paladin had a win axe i would agree this card would be insane but sadly thats not the case.
Argent Lance is as close as Paladin will get to having a War Axe, and with Muster you have a set of solid early-game cards for a joust-focused deck. Even with Zombie Chow and Shielded Minibot, the odds would still be overwhelmingly in your favor, especially if you drew them beforehand.
You say you could be running better cards against control, but what about decks that use Healbot because they need to? You're implying that Healbot is better than Jouster against control as well, unless there's something about your argument you'd like to revise. Also the most annoying thing for a Face Hunter is to have to invest in killing a minion because it puts them on a shorter clock than yours. The card is fine, but hey, you just have to wait a day or two to find out.
For sure i will try it out. What gives me hope though is you can easily run tuskar as a 2 of while double healbots hurts your control matchups too much.
Edit: Heres the deck i made that might be what control paladin is looking for in TGT.
On August 23 2015 14:37 Noidberg wrote: For sure i will try it out. What gives me hope though is you can easily run tuskar as a 2 of while double healbots hurts your control matchups too much.
That's more or less what I'm saying, the strength of the card comes from it giving you the vital healing when you need it, without sacrifing stats in other matchups. There's currently no single card that gives you that much coverage for Paladins across the different matchups, and for control Paladin that's something they desperately need.
All I heard about Lifecoach's reviews is that he absolutely hated the vast majority of the new cards. I start one of his review videos, the first card is Murlock Knight. Lifecoach says it's actually good. What can I say...
Reynad did wreck Enter The Coliseum though, but the most interesting thing in his reviews was that he actually foreshadows a much faster meta and that the inspire mechanic may very well work for some classes like Pally. It's funny how this week's tavern brawl made such a terrible job making jousting and inspire look good by making two terrible decks fight against each other.
I recommend watching the other part of his reviews, there are only a very very few cards where it feels like he fazed out and did not talk about them as in depth as possible.
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
Still I think this list is way too pessimistic, just dismissing everything out of hand isn't a way to review a new set.
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
Still I think this list is way too pessimistic, just dismissing everything out of hand isn't a way to review a new set.
Even the "better" reviews have thrown most of the cards out that Liquidhearth has. There are some exceptions with some people but for the most part this is a pretty depressing expansion.
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
Still I think this list is way too pessimistic, just dismissing everything out of hand isn't a way to review a new set.
Even the "better" reviews have thrown most of the cards out that Liquidhearth has. There are some exceptions with some people but for the most part this is a pretty depressing expansion.
It's true that inspire decks won't be a thing while aggro decks exist.
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
I have seen cases where the damage of two Frothing Berserker s alone is enough to OTK. So even if they didn't fix Warsong Commander I still think the Grim Patron Warrior deck could see some play
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
Still I think this list is way too pessimistic, just dismissing everything out of hand isn't a way to review a new set.
Even the "better" reviews have thrown most of the cards out that Liquidhearth has. There are some exceptions with some people but for the most part this is a pretty depressing expansion.
Trump's review was slightly more promising than an MTG review for a given set. For example, looking at LSV's review of the most recent MTG set, he had 120 cards that might see play in a 272 card set, including as fringe sideboard play. Adding up just the cards Trump considered great/good is 48, and he had at least another 20 or so that he thought were fringe (in the bad column)
On August 24 2015 00:39 gobbledydook wrote: I really think some imagination is sorely lacking in this review; I'm guessing the writer never thought patron would be a thing.
I mean for the most part the reviews are harsh but to be fair a lot of TGT is pretty god damn awful. Trump had it as only 18 cards in the entire set were amazing with 30 being good and the rest being trash with maybe some potential aka 75% of the set being bad
Now that we look back at GvG, how many cards were really good?
Dr. Balanced? Mech? About half of the class legendaries? I'd wager GvG is also 75% bad cards...
Exactly we go in expecting the worse because generally what happens. Statistically most of these cards will suck and generally speaking they do. Bringing up Patron which is one of like 3-4 cards actually usable from BRM doesn't really strengthen the arguement (Plus Patron was considered bad because at the time Warsong was unusable due to a bug)
Still I think this list is way too pessimistic, just dismissing everything out of hand isn't a way to review a new set.
Even the "better" reviews have thrown most of the cards out that Liquidhearth has. There are some exceptions with some people but for the most part this is a pretty depressing expansion.
What? Did you actually wtahced/read them?
Trump - started out as an "everything is garbage" reviewer, but got to his senses, and actually praised some cards, while giving many others the benefit of doubt, which is not equal to ratings like 1,2 or 3, maybe not even 4s. Reading this awful review actually made me think they rated cards from 1-5, then I saw the first 5+ rating and I was like waaaaiiiit a minute...
Kripp - His review is the closest to this one, he did label a bunch of cards as garbage. He's also someone who barely plays constructed and the last time he possibly made a decent constructed deck was when I was over the top when I got a Scarlet Crusader in beta, because she looked so cool. He said that the epic dragon with taunt is garbage, lmao. Go figure. (I do love Kripp, but had to be critical here. I watched last night's tournament for like 15 mins, and during that, Trump corrected him about stuff at least 4 times. It's just not Kripp's area.)
Strifecro - He was really open minded and pretty positive towards this expansion. No, he wouldn't give everything an 8+ either, but he saw further than "WELL I WOULD NOT PUT THIS INTO ANY EXISTING DECKS RIGHT NOW SO I'M GOING TO ROLL MY 3-SIDED DICE. LET'S SEE. TWO. ALL RIGHT THEN!" sigh
Reynad - Easily the best reviews, just finished the last parts of them today. It is so refreshing hearing someone thinking even more outside of the box than others. It's like, he understood that Blizz does not release one card at a time and he managed to not fall into hyperboles. Murlock Knight has been mentioned already (and will be, because it's so ridiculous), but Dark Bargain caught my attention as well - a card which Amaz praised too. Liquidhearth reviewers headbutted the wall and gave it a two. Reynad on the other hand sounded like someone who actually played Warlock, and understood that this card could be played as a one off, since it is not hard to empty your hand with certain Warlock archetypes (zoo, anyone?). He also solved the Liquidhearth-paradox about "but what if it kills their 1/1?!! This card is bad then!" by realizing that you actually play a bunch of small minions, so you can just trade into their small stuff to guarantee kills on their bigger minions, which you couldn't take out by creepers, flame imps, or whatever. And as for Fist of Jaraxxus... geez, no one said you HAVE TO combine that with this card. If you can, it's awesome, but Dark Bargain can work on its' own. Reynad did not say that this is easily a 9/10 or anything like that, but giving it a 2 (T W O) and backing it up with some terrible arguments...
Kibler - Now he is easily the most positive guy out of the reviewers I've watched/read, but that's his nature. He loves his dragons, and he'd really like if all the cards would work out. He was still somewhat down to earth, and was critical with some of the cards. I'm not saying being overly positive is better than the Liquidhearth review's theme of "this sucks, everything sucks, someone play something from My Chemical Romance, now!!", but at least Kibler also gave well thought out arguments. For example, at the end of the day, he wasn't too sold on Enter The Coliseum either, but it's like he realized it's not a Warrior card and explained what needs to change in the meta for it to be possibly included in PALADIN (still not Warrior) decks.
Forsen - Only saw his reviews about the finally revealed cards, and he had some crazy theories, like saying Void Crusher will be good, haha. But I do not mind bold statements like that. Aside from that, he was kinda polarized. Liked some weird cards other did not (like Wildwalker), but was fast to dismiss some others. Though we should mention that his review was not a dedicated one, he really did it "Forsen-style", but I'm pretty sure he'll still be closer to the truth than LH.
Amaz - Okay, I am fairly sure Amaz was quite dumb about some cards, like reaaally dumb, but I liked how he called out some cards which are probably overvalued, while having a top 5 list as well about the unsung heroes. He also realized that Dark Bargain is actually everythng but a 2/10 and so is Murlock Knight.
Lifecoach - I already said that I only read others opinion about his reviews, while only actually seen two cards reviewed by him. People said he was very critical and pessimist about TGT. The two cards I saw him review? He melted from Varian (okay, that's not surprising) and said that Murlock Knight is good. Lifecoach. Murlock Knight. Good. I let it sink. Based on his review, it was probably a 6/10 by him, but basically everyone realized this among the reviewers I watched/read.
It's honorable from you to try to defend this review, but it really seems helpless. And sorry to be mean as I close this out, but for those who forgot: Argent Lance - a card about which streamers/pro players unanimously agree that it sucks big time - got a rating of 2, with a possibility of a 3 from these guys. Murlock Knight, Dark Bargain are 2. Acidmaw is 1. Chillmaw is 3. Powershot is 3. Wyrmerst Agent is 4 - it's actually more revolting than Murlock Knight's 2. But do not worry, Mysterious Challenger is a 6, despite the only new Paladin secret got a rating of 3.
On August 23 2015 06:37 Noidberg wrote: Tuskar Jouster is an inferior healbot when you are counting on the heal and in control matchups an inferior 5 drop. The card looks cute(as in the picture) but its nothing special. I will experiment with it though even if its a card that tries to do 2 things at once.
I'm having a real hard time wrapping my head around whatever logic you're using here.
How so? Even if you hit the heal 70% of the time against aggro decks what about the times you dont? Against face hunter you count on healbot for the health gain not the stats so missing it would be game ending. As for control matchups there are way better 5 drops than a vanilla 5 drop such as harrison,theb, consort. Sure the RNG is in your favor by naturally having a higher curve against aggressive decks but its still RNG.
Good RNG cards are usually tempo cards btw so if you have a slow card like tuskar and miss that roll goodbye game. This is not true as much for cards such as implosion where the warlock already has board or unstable portal which costs 2 mana, again the mage should have a board at that point.
What i would like is a solid say 5 mana 5/5 heal for 5 no RNG attached. If they want control paladin to be viable it needs something slightly overbudget that always works like warriors win axe or shieldmaiden. Everyone knows guardian of kings should be 6 mana to be competitive, Hammer could be 3 mana, seal of light could be 3 damage, argent lance could be 3 damage. Point is control paladins havent received any power creep since the base set and their position on the power ranks continues to support this.
well, it probably increases your winrate against control, since a 5/5 for 5 is decent, and maybe slightly decreases your winrate against aggro. Its a tradeoff, but I think itll be a favorable one.
EPT
