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I don't think too many people are overhyping Thunder Bluff Valiant most people play a few shaman games and then realize that its literally just a worse version of Shaman and go back to Paladin. I think shamans really are going to want to go towards a Malygos deck now they can actually fight for the board better with Totem Golem / Tuskar Totemic / Elemental Overload
Yes and No. Funny thing is you can go towards Malygos Shaman but that is not because of Totem Golem or that you can fight for board presence but because of the gigantic heal that Healing Wave provides and the additional board clear you get from Elemental Destruction. I saw Forsen play a nice Malygos Shaman version that I tried out myself afterwards and I have to say when you do not draw super badly it is fun and feels like playing Freeze Mage, stalling the game, drawing cards and then kill your opponnent in 1 or 2 turns.
The decklist is:
2x Earth Shock
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Ancestral Knowledge
2x Crackle
2x Lava Shock
2x Elemental Destruction
2x Lightning Storm
2x Lava Burst
2x Healing Wave
2x Hex
2x Ancestor's Call
2x Far Sight
1x Bloodmage Thalnos
2x Coldlight Oracle
1x Emperor Thaurissan
1x Malygos
1x That new weapon of shaman but I think it has no real role, its just no minion that can stop your Ancestor's Call into Malygos 4 Mana Combo.
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Boneguard Lieutenant
This minions Inspire effect is just too underwhelming to make it playable anywhere.
Not everyone can be an arena player. It is a pretty solid 3/2, threatens to kill 2/3 while staying on board when played first (even Shielded Minibot if you play mage and get it out first). Yes, sometimes you have to just sacrifice it as a 3/2 in favor of putting a fresh minion on the board, and that is fine too. But when you can pump it up it often enough goes 2-for-1 while giving you board control.
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I got Murloc Knight in an arena. Man this is a good card. I now want to play Murloc Paladin in constructed as well
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J5owxKX.png)
I'll be honest that worked out fairly well for this zoo player
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A post for posterity's sake, checking in to see where things seem to be falling in reality-land.
Varian Wrynn has definitely been overrated, feels more like a 6 out of 10. Mysterious Challenger, on the other hand, is doing some disgusting things, and feels like a 16 out of 10. In other news, Dreadsteed has managed to prove itself useful in the right deck, whether said deck is something to be worried about remains to be seen.
As far as the put-down Murloc Knight, the card is proving to be anything but bad, and in the right deck even Mukla's Champion does some scary shit. Justicar Trueheart was panned pretty hard, but it's turning out to be one of the best legendaries for the late game, it really adds up to overwhelm anyone who isn't ready.
As for the whole Jousting mechanic, while a solid concept, it's less consistent than one would hope, and adds a solid chunk of variance where it may not be welcome, save for certain cases. The most usable ones so far seem to be Tuskarr Jouster and King's Elekk, but overall they're not much seen now.
All the while, the 2 most bemoaned cards of the whole set - Evil Heckler and Ice Rager - do nothing to impact the metagame, and nobody notices they exist.
As things continue to change, and the relevance of certain cards continues to shift, it may be a good idea to continue looking back at how we saw these cards then. Understanding the mistakes in these assessments may help in better understanding the potential of whatever comes next.
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Dreadsteed is hands down the most overlooked card in the set. Murdock Knight had it's champions as well as its detractors (Reynad saying it could replace Shredder even and Trump liking it's value potential). Mysterious Challenger wasn't panned all around (LH rated it at 6 remember) and plenty of people were intrigued, but they worried Paladin secrets were too terrible to make this viable.
But Dreadsteed is hard to find people rally excited by the preview. And I gotta say the concept behind pony decks is very creative. That's why we respect deck builders, because they see things most people ignore.
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On August 27 2015 01:56 WindWolf wrote:
I got Murloc Knight in an arena. Man this is a good card. I now want to play Murloc Paladin in constructed as well
Faced two paladins in Arena with Murlock Knights. Fucking disgusting; once they dropped it, I literally kept fighting the summoned minions, eventually losing out on the board.
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On August 26 2015 18:59 Fi0na wrote:Show nested quote +
Boneguard Lieutenant
This minions Inspire effect is just too underwhelming to make it playable anywhere.
Not everyone can be an arena player. It is a pretty solid 3/2, threatens to kill 2/3 while staying on board when played first (even Shielded Minibot if you play mage and get it out first). Yes, sometimes you have to just sacrifice it as a 3/2 in favor of putting a fresh minion on the board, and that is fine too. But when you can pump it up it often enough goes 2-for-1 while giving you board control.
It basically has taunt in arena when played T2. If your opponent gets to play it first and you only have a 2/3, you really can't even play it, b/c you'll let him/her HP for the take-out and (if it's a Pally) leave him/her with a 3/1 and a 1/1. So, it's definitely one of the best 2-drops in Arena now.
On August 30 2015 21:29 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:56 WindWolf wrote:
I got Murloc Knight in an arena. Man this is a good card. I now want to play Murloc Paladin in constructed as well Faced two paladins in Arena with Murlock Knights. Fucking disgusting; once they dropped it, I literally kept fighting the summoned minions, eventually losing out on the board.
Yeah, it's an insane Arena card that's kill-on-sight. I saw it in once match and immediately traded into it -- I think a 3/2 and hero power instead of playing a Yeti or something; you can't let a Pally play a minimum 2/1 and 1/1 for 2 mana each turn.
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Definitely right. Murloc Knight is quite possibly the best common in the set. That much value and flexibility out of a card without any real setbacks just can't be ignored.
Even in Constructed, the card can be used to basically demand that your opponent has AoE all by its lonesome. How many other single cards require a Flamestrike to extirpate?
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Mysterious Challenger rated 6
But stupid secret paladins are everywhere.(I have % 12 winrate against it...) Paladin secrets are low value but when you get 4 of them at the same turn with a strong body on board... Game is over...
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On August 24 2015 05:36 Volband wrote:
It's honorable from you to try to defend this review, but it really seems helpless. And sorry to be mean as I close this out, but for those who forgot: Argent Lance - a card about which streamers/pro players unanimously agree that it sucks big time - got a rating of 2, with a possibility of a 3 from these guys. Murlock Knight, Dark Bargain are 2. Acidmaw is 1. Chillmaw is 3. Powershot is 3. Wyrmerst Agent is 4 - it's actually more revolting than Murlock Knight's 2. But do not worry, Mysterious Challenger is a 6, despite the only new Paladin secret got a rating of 3.
T2 Wyrmrest Agent into T4 (or T3 coin) Twilight Guardian is GG for anything except the most control-ly control Deck. I was playing a Mech Shaman variant and had trouble punching through all the taunts. The Dragon Priest played T6 Chillmaw; I didn't draw Earth Shock (which would have given me lethal w/ Bloodlust), so I basically lost right there.
I believe Dragon Priest is legit with the additions of Wyrmrest Agent and Twilight Guardian, and Chillmaw doesn't hurt. (Again, I say this as primarily an Arena player.)
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On August 30 2015 17:59 Wuster wrote:
Mysterious Challenger wasn't panned all around (LH rated it at 6 remember) and plenty of people were intrigued, but they worried Paladin secrets were too terrible to make this viable.
But Dreadsteed is hard to find people rally excited by the preview. And I gotta say the concept behind pony decks is very creative. That's why we respect deck builders, because they see things most people ignore.
I didn't necessarily mention cards that got panned, that's simply the most common case. In this very thread people were skeptical of the 6 that it got, thinking it simply wasn't good. It turns out everyone was wrong, the card single-handedly created a new deck, and that deck is very powerful from the look of it.
And for what it's worth, I was excited by the thought of using Dreadsteed. I'd built a deck for it before I'd seen any other lists pop up, and it's been immensely fun, as well as not bad. Thinking about that kind of deckbuilding is my favorite part of the game.
Also I don't mean to shit on anyone's perception of cards before they were released - everyone was wrong about something. But I certainly do mean to attack the school of thought that nothing in the new set is playable, and that nothing will change - that simply will never happen with an expansion of this size. That mindset is a closed one, if you can learn to better think for yourself you might not think the same of the next expansion, whatever it may be.
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If I had a nickel for every time a Murloc Knight immediately summoned another Murloc Knight... I'd have a few nickels. Seems to happen way too often, that card is legit super stronk. In other new I have yet to see a Varian in all my laddering (Rank 6 NA) but the ladder has been so full of Paladins since the expansion that I really don't know if warriors are running him or not.
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On August 31 2015 08:43 eScapegoat100 wrote:
If I had a nickel for every time a Murloc Knight immediately summoned another Murloc Knight... I'd have a few nickels. Seems to happen way too often, that card is legit super stronk. In other new I have yet to see a Varian in all my laddering (Rank 6 NA) but the ladder has been so full of Paladins since the expansion that I really don't know if warriors are running him or not.
Lots of secret paladins about right now. A more controlly paladin with Equality and Eadric can handle it ok-ish in my experience.
Speaking of experience, I tend to get a lot of Siltfin Spiritwalkers, which imo is right up there with Old Murk-Eye and a 2nd Murloc Knight. The Knight is the priority target, so unless you have AoE I get to draw cards, it's been running pretty well.
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On August 31 2015 01:52 Aceace wrote:
Mysterious Challenger rated 6
But stupid secret paladins are everywhere.(I have % 12 winrate against it...) Paladin secrets are low value but when you get 4 of them at the same turn with a strong body on board... Game is over...
Yeah its a win condition. Secret keeper gives you a strong opening if your hand is all secrets and Challenger gives power to the 1 mana secrets late game by throwing them all on board at once. And Divine favor fills in the blanks.
Also i realized Challenger keeps you from topdecking secrets late game which really makes a secrets paladin viable. I was totally wrong thinking challengers win condition would be inferior to aggro paladin as well. You can counter burn but its hard to stop that many secrets in 1 turn.
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On August 31 2015 01:52 Aceace wrote:
Mysterious Challenger rated 6
But stupid secret paladins are everywhere.(I have % 12 winrate against it...) Paladin secrets are low value but when you get 4 of them at the same turn with a strong body on board... Game is over...
I haven't run into it as much but the only way I am ever able to beat it is if i can trigger almost all the secrets in one turn and clear as much of the board as possible to avoid the buff from competitive spirit, otherwise I lose. It is scary seeing 5 secrets show up in one turn and a board full of 1/1's.
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Just hit legend with my own rendition of secret paladin with Quartermaster, Murloc Knight and good ol Argent Protector which was key to many victories imo. Its a very fun and strong deck concept to play more so than your typical mid range or aggro paladin builds that always play a dull predictable curve. Turns can be wild due to the various secrets, T6 Mysterious Challenger is a blowout, Secretkeeper openings can end games like Undertaker and it does well against control decks unlike aggro paladin. If you want to play paladin choosing secrets is the way to go for sure.
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2 hour ago one of my friend reached legendary with secret paladin deck.
Interestingly i convinced him to start hs with the tgt launch. He bought 170 packs(80 basic 50 tgt 40 gvg) naxx and brm. He reached legendary with lots of missing cards and almost zero knowledge.(lucky bastard got 2 challenger from his packs then crafted some imported rares. Muster etc.)
Thats hilarious.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 31 2015 19:47 Aceace wrote:
2 hour ago one of my friend reached legendary with secret paladin deck.
Interestingly i convinced him to start hs with the tgt launch. He bought 170 packs(80 basic 50 tgt 40 gvg) naxx and brm. He reached legendary with lots of missing cards and almost zero knowledge.(lucky bastard got 2 challenger from his packs then crafted some imported rares. Muster etc.)
Thats hilarious.
New expansions have historically been the easiest time to rank up in any game. SC2 / HS etc etc etc. HS legend has never been exactly hard to achieve either its just time consuming
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EPT
