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On August 22 2015 03:30 Zaros wrote:
I get the feeling that the raters are very pessimistic, lots of the ratings are far too low and cards that I've seen other players call top tier have been rated at like 2 or 3. Lots of stuff seems to be evaluated poorly especially stuff like murloc knight, chillmaw, dark bargain and enter the coliseum.
I dunno what you call pessimistic, but you need to keep in mind that in the current meta maybe 1 out of every 10-20 cards will actually see high-level constructed play, so thats the standard that we are rating for.
While murloc knight would be a strong in a standard murloc deck, paladin just has nothing to support murlocs which is why we rated it poorly.
Also chillmaw is honestly just a propped-up version of abomination
Dark bargain discards 2 cards, which is honestly not something you want to happen if you are playing a control deck also its effect is random
Enter the colliseum is 1 more mana then brawl and guarantees that the best enemy minion lives, I don't honestly know how you can defend a card like that: equality-concecrate does infinitely better
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I do not beleive Magnataur Alpha procs the splash damage when dealing damage, so when he gets attacked by an opposing 2 or 3 drop he won't wipe the opposing board.
If I'm wrong, then that's probably waht Acritter means, he's a poison pill to attack into if you're aggro / zoo.
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On August 22 2015 04:42 Shamanigans wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 01:38 Acritter wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list will turn out to have some extremely embarrassing oversights in the next couple months. this completely, giving almost every card a less than 50% rating just based off of the fact they don't fit into a current tier 1 deck list just showcases poor deckbuilding ability. A ton of these cards are going to be fantastic tech or open up new deck types. I can't help but laugh at most of these reviews
I dunno if you watched the other previews, but there we rated the cards both on current strength and on potential strengths, however like it says in the post we opt not to do that here since all the cards are known now and we have a pretty good overview
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On August 22 2015 06:44 Wuster wrote:
I do not beleive Magnataur Alpha procs the splash damage when dealing damage, so when he gets attacked by an opposing 2 or 3 drop he won't wipe the opposing board.
If I'm wrong, then that's probably waht Acritter means, he's a poison pill to attack into if you're aggro / zoo.
I'm like 90% certain it'll just work like Foe Reaper 4000 does but if you're running an aggro deck you're likely not gonna have too many minions on board by t5 given thats when most board clears come out anyway
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On August 22 2015 06:44 Wuster wrote:
I do not beleive Magnataur Alpha procs the splash damage when dealing damage, so when he gets attacked by an opposing 2 or 3 drop he won't wipe the opposing board.
If I'm wrong, then that's probably waht Acritter means, he's a poison pill to attack into if you're aggro / zoo.
The wording is exactly the same as foe reaper: he will only do split damage when he is the one attacking
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On August 22 2015 06:09 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:36 Acritter wrote:On August 22 2015 05:18 Daisyx wrote:On August 22 2015 01:38 Acritter wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list will turn out to have some extremely embarrassing oversights in the next couple months. Obviously, that's the life of a critic who judges things before they are out  We have all screenshotted everyones individual ratings for future fun-making purposes and the ability to rub it into everyones noses if you made the correct prediction for a certain card I'm just saying, whoever made this list really ought to have seen that turn 2 Shielded Minibot into turn 3 Fencing Coach into turn 4 Murloc Knight is a strong tempo play, or that Boneguard Lieutenant trades favorably with all the traditional Mech Mage 2-drops, or that Elemental Destruction does something that no other card in the game does because it's an insanely powerful effect, or that Magnataur Alpha can't actually be traded into by a 2-drop or a 3-drop, or that the reason Hunters don't lose control of the board early is that they're all early-midrange and that Powershot gives control a way to not just outright lose, or that Stablemaster is in fact available to a different class than Argent Protector and furthermore trades up rather than serving as a 2-damage nuke... None of those mean that the cards in question are automatically bombs which are going to instantly take over the meta, but it does mean that all of the criticisms of them are narrow and that they have a ton of potential. Am I missing something why can't a 2-3 drop trade into Magnataur Alpha?
Sorry for late response. Because it kills the other 2-3 drop they have in play. Yes, there are also situations where it's going to bomb, but it's not as universally bad as they're trying to make out. I think it will in fact end up being bad, but it's nowhere near as clear-cut as the article tries to make it.
Although apparently I misread the card. Whoops!
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No way Varian ends at a 10 in the end. It's the highest rated card of the set, and I think it is going to be in some variations of control warrior, but not all of them.
Can't wait to be wrong though!
Edit : Overall, I roughly agree with the cards rated 5 or higher, but there are a LOT of cards where I would change the ratings by at least 2 points
Edit 2 : Deathstar v3 is the person I agree the most with. His rankings actually make sense, I feel it's a bit sad his voice is drowned in other rater's noise
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On August 22 2015 07:05 fezvez wrote:
No way Varian ends at a 10 in the end. It's the highest rated card of the set, and I think it is going to be in some variations of control warrior, but not all of them.
Can't wait to be wrong though!
Edit : Overall, I roughly agree with the cards rated 5 or higher, but there are a LOT of cards where I would change the ratings by at least 2 points
Edit 2 : Deathstar v3 is the person I agree the most with. His rankings actually make sense, I feel it's a bit sad his voice is drowned in other rater's noise
What cards do you think deserve to be higher?
Also looking at deathstars ratings, he doesn't seem to be rating that much deviantly from the pack.
Remember that the rating we use is a 6 is a card that will see significant high-level play and the average rating (for this batch of cards) seems to be a 3, so the bar is quite high
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On August 22 2015 06:43 Daisyx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 03:30 Zaros wrote:
I get the feeling that the raters are very pessimistic, lots of the ratings are far too low and cards that I've seen other players call top tier have been rated at like 2 or 3. Lots of stuff seems to be evaluated poorly especially stuff like murloc knight, chillmaw, dark bargain and enter the coliseum. I dunno what you call pessimistic, but you need to keep in mind that in the current meta maybe 1 out of every 10-20 cards will actually see high-level constructed play, so thats the standard that we are rating for. While murloc knight would be a strong in a standard murloc deck, paladin just has nothing to support murlocs which is why we rated it poorly. Also chillmaw is honestly just a propped-up version of abomination Dark bargain discards 2 cards, which is honestly not something you want to happen if you are playing a control deck also its effect is random Enter the colliseum is 1 more mana then brawl and guarantees that the best enemy minion lives, I don't honestly know how you can defend a card like that: equality-concecrate does infinitely better
Well you completely ignored everything I wrote about murloc knight not needing a murloc deck, Chillmaw is not just a propped up version of Abomb; its a dragon, so it procs corrupter etc, it doesn't deal face damage, and the 1 damage increase is very important especially vs frothing/patron. Dark bargain might not be a great card im not sure but there is at least potential to play it in the same way doomguard used to be played in zoo where you empty your hand so you aren't actually discarding anything.
Enter the coliseum guarantees you keep your board (you would only play this card in a control paladin so your only likely to have one big minion in play at a time,) this is a big difference to brawl you can then potentially trade your minion for theirs to completely clear. Even if the card isn't playable it should not just be disregarded as "1 mana worse brawl total trash." its a different card to brawl in a different class and has pros and cons, most of this review is lazy and not well thought through.
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I agree with the above. It's very important to note that dropping Chillmaw in the mid-late could just outright win you the game against Patron. It needs an Execute spent on it in order to get through, and the only other way involves multiple weapon charges. It's a hard counter.
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And it's not necessarily so bad. If you have a minion on board and the opponent fills his; you can reduce his board to 1 minion while keeping yours on when a brawl would most likely leave the opponent with one of his minion on board and maybe that wouldb et he big one. It's a more reliable brawl.
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On August 22 2015 08:29 Acritter wrote:
I agree with the above. It's very important to note that dropping Chillmaw in the mid-late could just outright win you the game against Patron. It needs an Execute spent on it in order to get through, and the only other way involves multiple weapon charges. It's a hard counter.
I'm really torn on Chillmaw. My gut has been telling me it's pretty bad since the moment I saw it, and I haven't yet been convinced otherwise. I think the best argument for it is to claim it's a counter to Grim Patron, but honestly I have more faith in Grim Patron than that. Also, Frothing Berserker lives through it, and will be extra frothy.
Otherwise, I dunno, Patron Warrior could tech in a silence if its' that big of a deal? Or TBK? Or be sure to save an Execute if the opponent might be playing it? Like, I just don't see the card being so great against Patron that it makes up for the fact that it's a 7 mana 6/6 taunt with a ??? deathrattle, which makes it unplayably bad in general IMO. I imagine that Twilight Guardian will be more bothersome honestly, as it's not overpriced and still has 6 health.
I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though, because the art is amazing. I just have a hard time believing that Grim Patron can't figure out a way to overcome that with all the tools it has at its disposal.
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On August 22 2015 05:13 Dromar wrote:
The one thing that Enter the Coliseum has going for it is that you can have a minion on the board when you use it. But that just doesn't make up for the fact that it basically does nothing. I guess you can clear a board of Grim Patrons after they have already kicked your ass?
I find this to be a shortsighted and misleading assessment of the card. In what universe is clearing possibly several minions from the board 'doing nothing'? Also keep in mind class context, Paladin has far more potential use for the card than Warrior. Warrior has plenty of hard removal to choose from, Paladin does not. In fact, Paladin technically has 0 hard removal, they need to use combos to get anything off the board, this card changes that. Also, Paladin is the only class that can reduce a minion's attack straight to 1. Not only is Enter the Coliseum predictable, but you can bend the results to your favor even more with an Aldor Peacekeeper, even a Humility(probably better in that case).
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On August 22 2015 09:15 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 08:29 Acritter wrote:
I agree with the above. It's very important to note that dropping Chillmaw in the mid-late could just outright win you the game against Patron. It needs an Execute spent on it in order to get through, and the only other way involves multiple weapon charges. It's a hard counter. I'm really torn on Chillmaw. My gut has been telling me it's pretty bad since the moment I saw it, and I haven't yet been convinced otherwise. I think the best argument for it is to claim it's a counter to Grim Patron, but honestly I have more faith in Grim Patron than that. Also, Frothing Berserker lives through it, and will be extra frothy. Otherwise, I dunno, Patron Warrior could tech in a silence if its' that big of a deal? Or TBK? Or be sure to save an Execute if the opponent might be playing it? Like, I just don't see the card being so great against Patron that it makes up for the fact that it's a 7 mana 6/6 taunt with a ??? deathrattle, which makes it unplayably bad in general IMO. I imagine that Twilight Guardian will be more bothersome honestly, as it's not overpriced and still has 6 health. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though, because the art is amazing. I just have a hard time believing that Grim Patron can't figure out a way to overcome that with all the tools it has at its disposal.
Patron is already running a Shield Slam as well which would deal with Chillmaw. That said it would be somewhat annoying to deal with and you wouldn't be able to Whirlwind the Frothing etc which slows down the combo
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On August 22 2015 09:18 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:13 Dromar wrote:
The one thing that Enter the Coliseum has going for it is that you can have a minion on the board when you use it. But that just doesn't make up for the fact that it basically does nothing. I guess you can clear a board of Grim Patrons after they have already kicked your ass? I find this to be a shortsighted and misleading assessment of the card. In what universe is clearing possibly several minions from the board 'doing nothing'? Also keep in mind class context, Paladin has far more potential use for the card than Warrior. Warrior has plenty of hard removal to choose from, Paladin does not. In fact, Paladin technically has 0 hard removal, they need to use combos to get anything off the board, this card changes that. Also, Paladin is the only class that can reduce a minion's attack straight to 1. Not only is Enter the Coliseum predictable, but you can bend the results to your favor even more with an Aldor Peacekeeper, even a Humility(probably better in that case).
I mean if you are arguing for a two card combo then Equality + Consecration is always going to be better in that scenario (Plus its much cheaper on the mana). I personally don't think it is useless but you can't really hide behind the Aldor defence if you reject Equality Consecration
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On August 22 2015 09:15 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 08:29 Acritter wrote:
I agree with the above. It's very important to note that dropping Chillmaw in the mid-late could just outright win you the game against Patron. It needs an Execute spent on it in order to get through, and the only other way involves multiple weapon charges. It's a hard counter. I'm really torn on Chillmaw. My gut has been telling me it's pretty bad since the moment I saw it, and I haven't yet been convinced otherwise. I think the best argument for it is to claim it's a counter to Grim Patron, but honestly I have more faith in Grim Patron than that. Also, Frothing Berserker lives through it, and will be extra frothy. Otherwise, I dunno, Patron Warrior could tech in a silence if its' that big of a deal? Or TBK? Or be sure to save an Execute if the opponent might be playing it? Like, I just don't see the card being so great against Patron that it makes up for the fact that it's a 7 mana 6/6 taunt with a ??? deathrattle, which makes it unplayably bad in general IMO. I imagine that Twilight Guardian will be more bothersome honestly, as it's not overpriced and still has 6 health. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though, because the art is amazing. I just have a hard time believing that Grim Patron can't figure out a way to overcome that with all the tools it has at its disposal.
Frothing Berserker isn't going to be extra Frothy because you can't play Frothing Berserker and whirlwind effects until after you kill Chillmaw.
Sure Patron Warrior can tech in things like TBK or silence or Shield Slam, but other than Shield Slam, you're effectively delaying the big combo by a turn. Sometimes that's all it takes (see, Gadgetzan Auctioneer nerf and Miracle Rogue).
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On August 22 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 09:18 NewSunshine wrote:On August 22 2015 05:13 Dromar wrote:
The one thing that Enter the Coliseum has going for it is that you can have a minion on the board when you use it. But that just doesn't make up for the fact that it basically does nothing. I guess you can clear a board of Grim Patrons after they have already kicked your ass? I find this to be a shortsighted and misleading assessment of the card. In what universe is clearing possibly several minions from the board 'doing nothing'? Also keep in mind class context, Paladin has far more potential use for the card than Warrior. Warrior has plenty of hard removal to choose from, Paladin does not. In fact, Paladin technically has 0 hard removal, they need to use combos to get anything off the board, this card changes that. Also, Paladin is the only class that can reduce a minion's attack straight to 1. Not only is Enter the Coliseum predictable, but you can bend the results to your favor even more with an Aldor Peacekeeper, even a Humility(probably better in that case). I mean if you are arguing for a two card combo then Equality + Consecration is always going to be better in that scenario (Plus its much cheaper on the mana). I personally don't think it is useless but you can't really hide behind the Aldor defence if you reject Equality Consecration
But I can. Aldor Peacekeeper gains a new utility with it, but it's hardly needed to play the card. If I was topdecking, and could get but 1 out of Equality, Consecration, and Enter the Coliseum, Enter would be the only one to kill things outright.
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On August 22 2015 10:12 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On August 22 2015 09:18 NewSunshine wrote:On August 22 2015 05:13 Dromar wrote:
The one thing that Enter the Coliseum has going for it is that you can have a minion on the board when you use it. But that just doesn't make up for the fact that it basically does nothing. I guess you can clear a board of Grim Patrons after they have already kicked your ass? I find this to be a shortsighted and misleading assessment of the card. In what universe is clearing possibly several minions from the board 'doing nothing'? Also keep in mind class context, Paladin has far more potential use for the card than Warrior. Warrior has plenty of hard removal to choose from, Paladin does not. In fact, Paladin technically has 0 hard removal, they need to use combos to get anything off the board, this card changes that. Also, Paladin is the only class that can reduce a minion's attack straight to 1. Not only is Enter the Coliseum predictable, but you can bend the results to your favor even more with an Aldor Peacekeeper, even a Humility(probably better in that case). I mean if you are arguing for a two card combo then Equality + Consecration is always going to be better in that scenario (Plus its much cheaper on the mana). I personally don't think it is useless but you can't really hide behind the Aldor defence if you reject Equality Consecration But I can. Aldor Peacekeeper gains a new utility with it, but it's hardly needed to play the card. If I was topdecking, and could get but 1 out of Equality, Consecration, and Enter the Coliseum, Enter would be the only one to kill things outright.
Personally if I was going to sack my own board as control Paladin i'd be running the old Pyromancer / Equality combo. I get that its not a completely dead card but for the mana cost and the overall downside compared to Paladin's already stupidly strong removal in Equality it does seem like overkill. That said it'd be a nice niche card to include if the meta becomes really really control based and only having 4 removal spells doesn't cut it anymore.
Speaking as someone who plays a lot of control paladin I personally find it rather rare that I wouldn't have a minion on board at any given moment to make trades with Equality. So it really does depend on what type of Paladin deck you are running.
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On August 22 2015 09:18 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:13 Dromar wrote:
The one thing that Enter the Coliseum has going for it is that you can have a minion on the board when you use it. But that just doesn't make up for the fact that it basically does nothing. I guess you can clear a board of Grim Patrons after they have already kicked your ass? I find this to be a shortsighted and misleading assessment of the card. In what universe is clearing possibly several minions from the board 'doing nothing'? Also keep in mind class context, Paladin has far more potential use for the card than Warrior. Warrior has plenty of hard removal to choose from, Paladin does not. In fact, Paladin technically has 0 hard removal, they need to use combos to get anything off the board, this card changes that. Also, Paladin is the only class that can reduce a minion's attack straight to 1. Not only is Enter the Coliseum predictable, but you can bend the results to your favor even more with an Aldor Peacekeeper, even a Humility(probably better in that case).
The several minions you're talking about would likely also be cleared with Consecrate, for less mana, and with additional damage to the large minion and opponent. I have kept class context in mind. I don't know why you bring up Paladin's lack of hard removal when discussing a card that will 100% of the time fail to remove the minion for which you would want hard removal in the first place.
There is very little synergy between this card and Aldor Peacekeeper that isn't nearly replicated by Aldor alone. Sure, you can Enter the Coliseum and then Aldor what's left. But Aldor does a lot of work on his own there and I think the mana and card slot could likely be spent more efficiently.
Ultimately I don't see myself ever playing this card over a second Equality.
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Enter is another board wipe for paladins. Its definitely not better than equality combos but it does help fill in the blanks. You wont always have equality clears and often more times than not you are at these awkward moments as paladin since the class does not draw well.
There are alot of unique situations where Enter works decently like with big game hunters, aldors, or a fat minion on the board your opponent ignores going for your face, eadric the pure plays... I will be giving this card a try as a 1 of just as additional removal alongside 2x equality in a new age control paladin.
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EPT
