In a thread discussing China, you don't want to hear the views of the Chinese people. Is this thread meaningful? In the middle, there was no reply from the Chinese for a week, and this thread basically stalled. Kissinger is a person who knows China better. You can learn about him to help you understand China. The Communist Party of China is not equal to the Chinese government, and the Chinese government is not equal to China，I don't like or hate these two.The only thing I love is China this country. China is a large country with a population of 1.4 billion, with various social and practical problems, but these problems do not necessarily attract your special attention. Your concern will always be Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Taiwan. These things have been said many times in previous posts, It doesn't make much sense to keep repeating the same thing. Besides, ordinary Chinese people rarely pay attention to things in these places, unless there is a serious riot or terrorist attack. Tibet has never heard of terrorist attacks, and the only thing they know is the Dalai Lama who heard of them once a few years, The terrorist attacks in Xinjiang seem to have been ten years ago (regardless of Han or Uygur, the massacre of ordinary people is basically East Turkistan, a terrorist recognized by the whole world). The recent terrorist attacks in Hong Kong are bewitched young people around the age of 20 (not only attacking the police government, but also innocent ordinary people who have been seriously injured). In fact, our media rarely report on Taiwan, Unless there are arms sales and US leaders' visit to Taiwan will be mentioned. What you like to see is the incessant riots all over China? Does the government keep killing or suppressing ordinary people? Only such information can excite you? I come here to discuss with goodwill. I can spend a few minutes here every day talking about all kinds of problems in all aspects of China, provided that you really want to know these things, are interested in all aspects of China, and are interested in hot issues in China in the near future.
On July 22 2022 10:30 [JXSA].Zergling wrote: In a thread discussing China, you don't want to hear the views of the Chinese people. Is this thread meaningful?
It would be more meaningful if Chinese posters did try to participate in the discussion at hand instead of constantly trying to change the subject.
On July 21 2022 20:56 Manit0u wrote: Every language has certain quirks and homophones that would make anyone but native speaker stumble (and sometimes even native speakers, stuff like 施氏食獅史). There are languages that are harder to learn than Mandarin (like one dialect in Ural mountains where they have 64 cases in their grammar). Language is not that big of a barrier since people have been successfully communicating with each other for thousands of years. Sure, some languages are harder to learn than others but not impossible. You even have cases of people in the US speaking better Chinese than people in China, despite not having visited China once in their life.
It seems to me that whenever people are trying to discuss some problem that's arisen in China there suddenly appear new posters that change the subject of discussion, without even using any really good arguments...
Yeah, I agree strongly with this and Asian cultures have a bad habit of falling for the temptation to say it's impossible for foreigners to learn. Can a person study for ten years and speak Mandarin better than native speakers? Of course not. But Chinese immigrants to the US learn to speak English and get by, but they do not speak English better than most Americans and they have to put up with jokes about their accents or their occasional errors.
I think the bigger problem is that the number of Chinese who want to learn English and move to a Western country compared to the number of Westerners who want to learn Mandarin and move to China might literally be like 10,000 to 1.
I don't know if China dreams of a day when that proportion reverses itself. It has actually happened for South Korea, which went from a big net outflow of people in the 80s to now having a big net inflow of people. I think China's big cities are attracting foreigners in decent numbers now.
do you have a source for this? because i highly doubt thats true
On July 21 2022 20:56 Manit0u wrote: Every language has certain quirks and homophones that would make anyone but native speaker stumble (and sometimes even native speakers, stuff like 施氏食獅史). There are languages that are harder to learn than Mandarin (like one dialect in Ural mountains where they have 64 cases in their grammar). Language is not that big of a barrier since people have been successfully communicating with each other for thousands of years. Sure, some languages are harder to learn than others but not impossible. You even have cases of people in the US speaking better Chinese than people in China, despite not having visited China once in their life.
It seems to me that whenever people are trying to discuss some problem that's arisen in China there suddenly appear new posters that change the subject of discussion, without even using any really good arguments...
Yeah, I agree strongly with this and Asian cultures have a bad habit of falling for the temptation to say it's impossible for foreigners to learn. Can a person study for ten years and speak Mandarin better than native speakers? Of course not. But Chinese immigrants to the US learn to speak English and get by, but they do not speak English better than most Americans and they have to put up with jokes about their accents or their occasional errors.
I think the bigger problem is that the number of Chinese who want to learn English and move to a Western country compared to the number of Westerners who want to learn Mandarin and move to China might literally be like 10,000 to 1.
I don't know if China dreams of a day when that proportion reverses itself. It has actually happened for South Korea, which went from a big net outflow of people in the 80s to now having a big net inflow of people. I think China's big cities are attracting foreigners in decent numbers now.
do you have a source for this? because i highly doubt thats true
On July 21 2022 20:56 Manit0u wrote: Every language has certain quirks and homophones that would make anyone but native speaker stumble (and sometimes even native speakers, stuff like 施氏食獅史). There are languages that are harder to learn than Mandarin (like one dialect in Ural mountains where they have 64 cases in their grammar). Language is not that big of a barrier since people have been successfully communicating with each other for thousands of years. Sure, some languages are harder to learn than others but not impossible. You even have cases of people in the US speaking better Chinese than people in China, despite not having visited China once in their life.
It seems to me that whenever people are trying to discuss some problem that's arisen in China there suddenly appear new posters that change the subject of discussion, without even using any really good arguments...
Yeah, I agree strongly with this and Asian cultures have a bad habit of falling for the temptation to say it's impossible for foreigners to learn. Can a person study for ten years and speak Mandarin better than native speakers? Of course not. But Chinese immigrants to the US learn to speak English and get by, but they do not speak English better than most Americans and they have to put up with jokes about their accents or their occasional errors.
I think the bigger problem is that the number of Chinese who want to learn English and move to a Western country compared to the number of Westerners who want to learn Mandarin and move to China might literally be like 10,000 to 1.
I don't know if China dreams of a day when that proportion reverses itself. It has actually happened for South Korea, which went from a big net outflow of people in the 80s to now having a big net inflow of people. I think China's big cities are attracting foreigners in decent numbers now.
do you have a source for this? because i highly doubt thats true
In 2007 the UN declared South Korea an official receiving country. The number of foreigners in South Korea grew from 390,000 in 1997 to 1 million in 2007. Among these are 630,000 temporary laborers, as well as 100,000 foreigners married to South Korean nationals. Furthermore, there are 230,000 illegal immigrants.
The chart on the page has 2.5 million immigrants in South Korea as of 2019. Note that 60% of these immigrants come from China, Vietnam, and Thailand.
By contrast, the population of Korean immigrants in the US went from 290k in 1980 to 1.1 million in 2010, settling down to a little over a million in 2019.
I haven't seen much discussion of China from Chinese posters in this thread just attempts to shut down or deflect what's actually being talked about and insistence that reality isn't true.
You have a one party state that has no accountability to the people. The ccp is the Chinese government and therefore controls what we see coming out of china. If they didn't want us to talk about the things they're doing they shouldn't do them.
On July 21 2022 20:56 Manit0u wrote: Every language has certain quirks and homophones that would make anyone but native speaker stumble (and sometimes even native speakers, stuff like 施氏食獅史). There are languages that are harder to learn than Mandarin (like one dialect in Ural mountains where they have 64 cases in their grammar). Language is not that big of a barrier since people have been successfully communicating with each other for thousands of years. Sure, some languages are harder to learn than others but not impossible. You even have cases of people in the US speaking better Chinese than people in China, despite not having visited China once in their life.
It seems to me that whenever people are trying to discuss some problem that's arisen in China there suddenly appear new posters that change the subject of discussion, without even using any really good arguments...
Yeah, I agree strongly with this and Asian cultures have a bad habit of falling for the temptation to say it's impossible for foreigners to learn. Can a person study for ten years and speak Mandarin better than native speakers? Of course not. But Chinese immigrants to the US learn to speak English and get by, but they do not speak English better than most Americans and they have to put up with jokes about their accents or their occasional errors.
I think the bigger problem is that the number of Chinese who want to learn English and move to a Western country compared to the number of Westerners who want to learn Mandarin and move to China might literally be like 10,000 to 1.
I don't know if China dreams of a day when that proportion reverses itself. It has actually happened for South Korea, which went from a big net outflow of people in the 80s to now having a big net inflow of people. I think China's big cities are attracting foreigners in decent numbers now.
do you have a source for this? because i highly doubt thats true
On July 21 2022 20:56 Manit0u wrote: Every language has certain quirks and homophones that would make anyone but native speaker stumble (and sometimes even native speakers, stuff like 施氏食獅史). There are languages that are harder to learn than Mandarin (like one dialect in Ural mountains where they have 64 cases in their grammar). Language is not that big of a barrier since people have been successfully communicating with each other for thousands of years. Sure, some languages are harder to learn than others but not impossible. You even have cases of people in the US speaking better Chinese than people in China, despite not having visited China once in their life.
It seems to me that whenever people are trying to discuss some problem that's arisen in China there suddenly appear new posters that change the subject of discussion, without even using any really good arguments...
Yeah, I agree strongly with this and Asian cultures have a bad habit of falling for the temptation to say it's impossible for foreigners to learn. Can a person study for ten years and speak Mandarin better than native speakers? Of course not. But Chinese immigrants to the US learn to speak English and get by, but they do not speak English better than most Americans and they have to put up with jokes about their accents or their occasional errors.
I think the bigger problem is that the number of Chinese who want to learn English and move to a Western country compared to the number of Westerners who want to learn Mandarin and move to China might literally be like 10,000 to 1.
I don't know if China dreams of a day when that proportion reverses itself. It has actually happened for South Korea, which went from a big net outflow of people in the 80s to now having a big net inflow of people. I think China's big cities are attracting foreigners in decent numbers now.
do you have a source for this? because i highly doubt thats true
In 2007 the UN declared South Korea an official receiving country. The number of foreigners in South Korea grew from 390,000 in 1997 to 1 million in 2007. Among these are 630,000 temporary laborers, as well as 100,000 foreigners married to South Korean nationals. Furthermore, there are 230,000 illegal immigrants.
The chart on the page has 2.5 million immigrants in South Korea as of 2019. Note that 60% of these immigrants come from China, Vietnam, and Thailand.
By contrast, the population of Korean immigrants in the US went from 290k in 1980 to 1.1 million in 2010, settling down to a little over a million in 2019.
i doubted the information because my understanding of immigration in korea recently is that immigration is generally declining. both your sources do not confirm each other and so for me neither source is credible. that said, up until 2020 the net migration rate was indeed positive for korea, if only marginal. immigration has been on a decline since 2019 whereas emigration has been on the rise. net migration for 2021 for migrants exceeding 90 days of travel is negative in korea. (official korean government source) https://kostat.go.kr/portal/korea/kor_nw/1/2/5/index.board?bmode=read&bSeq=&aSeq=419290&pageNo=1&rowNum=10&navCount=10&currPg=&searchInfo=&sTarget=title&sTxt=
On July 21 2022 21:59 gobbledydook wrote: One thing that sets China apart from other large countries like the US, is that each region speaks its own dialect, which is basically unintelligible to other Chinese speakers. To be from Guangzhou vs Shanghai: that's a much bigger difference in culture and language than say, Chicago vs New York. And so local identity is more powerful than in other countries. You would have expected China to be more like the European Union, with independent nation-states forming a larger political entity, but the difficult part is keeping everything under one banner.
Maybe for the US but that's not so much different from other regions in the world. Even in Poland, which is in center of Europe I don't have to travel more than a few hundred kilometers in each direction to reach a region where people speak a different dialect or a completely different language that I won't be able to understand. Add to this all the small diasporas and communities of various different people, each with their own language, religion etc.
You can't really make an argument for authoritarian, oppressive government being the only thing that holds a country together because other countries having diverse populations in terms of language and culture do make it work without resorting to it.
On July 22 2022 18:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: up until 2020 the net migration rate was indeed positive for korea, if only marginal. immigration has been on a decline since 2019 whereas emigration has been on the rise. net migration for 2021 for migrants exceeding 90 days of travel is negative in korea. (official korean government source)
I'm not sure we should really look at immigration numbers past 2019 just yet. I believe COVID might've skewed the numbers one way or another so it wouldn't be very reliable to draw any conclusions from this period. Not only you had more travel restrictions worldwide but I think also people's willingness to travel has diminished in addition to their ability to do so.
Pandemic and oncoming financial crisis are also affecting job markets, which will have a reflection in migration patterns across the world I would assume.
I am kinda suprised that I am not banned yet. One story I would share about CCP is that, once. an american guy who had a crush on a chinese girl who lives next to my door, and he came to me asking if l know where she would be because we were friends. I told him that she was a CCP member, he is astonished, and I never see him coming here again.... Well,. CCP is not as evil as you guys think , people join CCP mainly because they want some privilige in promotion,... I don't really like CCP member for this reason because I consider them as people motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain. However, it is a glory for the elder ones to join CCP when it is hard to join the CCP befrore 1990s' unless you did something to prove that you are qualified for a CCP member. CCP has no DIRECT influence to normal chinese, unless that you watch CCTV everyday or in a state company where the Party plays an important role in your compamy. Well , as it is suspected, talking about politics is strickly forbidden. So we don't really have a wide discusstion on themes like "when taiwan will come back" or" the evilness of NK "or" who is more righterous in UR-UA war." Some people are pro-russian because the next target would be clearly China if russian fell, some are pro-west because they believe what Russian had done is clearly beyond the international laws.
For me,it is a mixture of hate and love for Russians, Russia took 160K square killmeters of Chinese territory, and made Mongolia indenpent who belong to China before the 1920s. One the other hand , Russians helped China to build up an modern industrial system in 1953-1956, for which, the Chineses are still grateful today.
It is complicated to explain why China choose a neutrial position in the Russo-Ulkrainian war, but I think the ulkrainains should be grateful that China did not pick a side because if we do we will obviously not choose the NATO side, which represents only 30% of the world's population.
In a common Chinese's view, it is no good to take CCP down as CCP is doing welll on lifing people's living. And though we are questioned by many westners, we are not really willing to gain the respect of them, I think Gandhi is more respected in the West than Mao, but who leads his country to a big shit-hole? Who leads his army to beat the UN with only primary weapons in 1950s? I am not here to change people's mind, it is obviously of no use and not necessary, I don't want to fight with the westners,but as we are so different , we have differentt opinions on the same things in this thread.
I am not trying to provocate the westners, I am just reminding them that the huge difference do exist. I would share more if you didn't ban me.
On July 23 2022 02:45 winteriscoming wrote: In a common Chinese's view, it is no good to take CCP down as CCP is doing welll on lifing people's living. And though we are questioned by many westners, we are not really willing to gain the respect of them, I think Gandhi is more respected in the West than Mao, but who leads his country to a big shit-hole? Who leads his army to beat the UN with only primary weapons in 1950s? I am not here to change people's mind, it is obviously of no use and not necessary, I don't want to fight with the westners,but as we are so different , we have differentt opinions on the same things in this thread.
I am not trying to provocate the westners, I am just reminding them that the huge difference do exist. I would share more if you didn't ban me.
no one will ban you because you post your opinion, no matter how controversial it may be or sound. it' s your opinion, and like my opinion, i have the right to speak it out loud, and share information that i feel is true and relevant. you have that same right. the right to speak, to state your thoughts.
that' s on of the the basics of democracy. that you are free to share your thoughts. actually it' s kinda ironic that you are afraid of being banned for posting your opinion.
Ironic but not funny, that would be how the chinese communist party would act. you don' t agree with what we do? ban, and consequences. no freedom of speech.
you are safe here, you can and are encouraged to state your opinion, your finds, your ideas, your views on chinese politics, unlike in the chinese press, chinese websites. these forums are not owned by chinese state media, and that is why we are free to have this conversation in the first place.
On July 23 2022 02:45 winteriscoming wrote: In a common Chinese's view, it is no good to take CCP down as CCP is doing welll on lifing people's living. And though we are questioned by many westners, we are not really willing to gain the respect of them, I think Gandhi is more respected in the West than Mao, but who leads his country to a big shit-hole? Who leads his army to beat the UN with only primary weapons in 1950s? I am not here to change people's mind, it is obviously of no use and not necessary, I don't want to fight with the westners,but as we are so different , we have differentt opinions on the same things in this thread.
I am not trying to provocate the westners, I am just reminding them that the huge difference do exist. I would share more if you didn't ban me.
no one will ban you because you post your opinion, no matter how controversial it may be or sound. it' s your opinion, and like my opinion, i have the right to speak it out loud, and share information that i feel is true and relevant. you have that same right. the right to speak, to state your thoughts.
that' s on of the the basics of democracy. that you are free to share your thoughts. actually it' s kinda ironic that you are afraid of being banned for posting your opinion.
Ironic but not funny, that would be how the chinese communist party would act. you don' t agree with what we do? ban, and consequences. no freedom of speech.
you are safe here, you can and are encouraged to state your opinion, your finds, your ideas, your views on chinese politics, unlike in the chinese press, chinese websites. these forums are not owned by chinese state media, and that is why we are free to have this conversation in the first place.
Teamliquid isn’t a democracy and we do ban people for opinions. Freedom of speech means freedom from government punishment for saying the wrong thing, it doesn’t mean that individuals can’t kick you out of private spaces.
At the end of the video the gov gave in and agreed to cover the deposits of what they probably calculate to be most of the victims. If the remaining victims are a handful of millionaires they will most likely call them greedy for a pursuing high interest rates without due diligence and turn the rest of the people against them. Divide and conquer.
On July 23 2022 02:45 winteriscoming wrote: In a common Chinese's view, it is no good to take CCP down as CCP is doing welll on lifing people's living. And though we are questioned by many westners, we are not really willing to gain the respect of them, I think Gandhi is more respected in the West than Mao, but who leads his country to a big shit-hole? Who leads his army to beat the UN with only primary weapons in 1950s? I am not here to change people's mind, it is obviously of no use and not necessary, I don't want to fight with the westners,but as we are so different , we have differentt opinions on the same things in this thread.
I am not trying to provocate the westners, I am just reminding them that the huge difference do exist. I would share more if you didn't ban me.
Because Mao is responsible for dozens of millions of (chineses) deaths, while Gandhi initiated a peaceful non compliance movement. You can adulate Mao all you like, but I don't think anyone would if they studied the chinese revolution. If I understood you correctly, you don't know if you're rooting for Russia or not because of the shared history between your two countries. Why does it matter ? It's hard to find a clearer war of agression than this one.
On July 23 2022 02:24 winteriscoming wrote:Some people are pro-russian because the next target would be clearly China if russian fell, some are pro-west because they believe what Russian had done is clearly beyond the international laws.
If Russia falls, China will be its next target? How does that make any sense?
On July 23 2022 02:24 winteriscoming wrote:Some people are pro-russian because the next target would be clearly China if russian fell, some are pro-west because they believe what Russian had done is clearly beyond the international laws.
If Russia falls, China will be its next target? How does that make any sense?
They're saying the West would go after China next if Russia loses the war where it's the unprovoked aggressor. Even in that context that still doesn't make any sense because no one went after Russia. Russia went after Ukraine and Ukraine received indirect military aid in the form of weapons, ammunition, and intel.
On July 23 2022 02:24 winteriscoming wrote:Some people are pro-russian because the next target would be clearly China if russian fell, some are pro-west because they believe what Russian had done is clearly beyond the international laws.
If Russia falls, China will be its next target? How does that make any sense?
They're saying the West would go after China next if Russia loses the war where it's the unprovoked aggressor. Even in that context that still doesn't make any sense because no one went after Russia. Russia went after Ukraine and Ukraine received indirect military aid in the form of weapons, ammunition, and intel.
I know. I just wanted to point out the utter stupidity of their hot take.
On July 23 2022 02:24 winteriscoming wrote:Some people are pro-russian because the next target would be clearly China if russian fell, some are pro-west because they believe what Russian had done is clearly beyond the international laws.
If Russia falls, China will be its next target? How does that make any sense?
They're saying the West would go after China next if Russia loses the war where it's the unprovoked aggressor. Even in that context that still doesn't make any sense because no one went after Russia. Russia went after Ukraine and Ukraine received indirect military aid in the form of weapons, ammunition, and intel.
I know. I just wanted to point out the utter stupidity of their hot take.
Ah my apologies. I read your post as Russia's next target will be China if they lose the war vs Ukraine.
Isn't it clear enough? China is the No.1 threat to the "freedom world" or "world order" , the Americans expressed their thoughts directly since Mr.Trumph times and repeatly emphasize on this even today. Before russo-ulkrain war, we are in great conflict with the americans on economical and political fields. And now, Russians are taking more bullets, if they fell, the ONLY thing to worry about is China for those who believe it is comfortable to live in a world where Americans are dominant. I know some western countries don't really like American dominance, but they think even it is not very good but still better than in a world where Chinese are dominant.- does my logic make sense? I think, we chinese, unlike the japnese, don't have a desire to expand. We are not a threat to the free world. If someday China took the 1st place, the world could be more peaceful, but I think the Americans will try their best to stop us. We can expect more conflicts between China and USA in the near future. Maybe years later we can find a thead on Sino-American War? We are avoiding conflicts with any country, but sometimes there's just no room for this. I didn't mean we chinese are peace-fonders while the americans are not. But the world is in the hand of politicians, bad things always happen against the majority‘s will. I think we are OKay, though we do have political problems. I know you are good too, and you have your problems too. Humans are stupidly keep fight agaist eachother, as someone said, the only thing we learned from history is that we didn't learn anything from history.
EPT
