EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 315
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r00ty
Germany1061 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
They also could have just not done it. Nobody forces Israel to kill Lebanese soldiers. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On September 18 2024 22:08 Broetchenholer wrote: They also could have just not done it. Nobody forces Israel to kill Lebanese soldiers. Are you trying to tell nations at war not to attack enemy soldiers? I don't think you've thought this entirely through | ||
KwarK
United States43505 Posts
On September 18 2024 22:08 Broetchenholer wrote: They also could have just not done it. Nobody forces Israel to kill Lebanese soldiers. Hezbollah aren’t Lebanese army soldiers, Hezbollah shoot Lebanese army soldiers. They’re a well armed externally funded externally led group that has occupied Lebanon. It’s like how multinational cartels functionally control parts of Central America without being the national army. Israel isn’t at war with Lebanon. Lebanon used to be the jewel of the eastern Mediterranean. After the violence of the foundation of Israel (and anyone who has read my earlier posts on the subject will note that I’m not at all sympathetic to the Zionist nationalist cause in the 40s and believe that Palestine and it’s population should have been defended from Zionist terrorists in 1948) Lebanon was flooded with Palestinian refugees. They formed militias dedicated to reconquering their homeland. This brought them into conflict with Israel and therefore the Lebanese government which didn’t want to be at war with Israel. A civil war broke out in 1976 between the Lebanese government and the Palestinian militias occupying southern Lebanon. In 1978 the UN created the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, a peacekeeping force tasked with assisting the Lebanese government reassert sovereignty over southern Lebanon. They haven’t done shit. They’ve done so little that Israel has repeatedly had to directly intervene with the IDF because the UN peacekeeping force failed to keep the peace. Meanwhile the Lebanese government has gradually failed over the last fifty years. People who remember the country before it was ruined are now in their 70s, Lebanese soldiers fighting today have to ask their grandparents about the country they’re fighting for. There’s no future. Anyone with the means to leave has left. The destruction of the port infrastructure in Beirut crippled the economy further and now they can’t even keep the power on. Hezbollah are an Iranian armed Iranian funded Iranian led paramilitary group that has conquered southern Lebanon to use as a base for launching attacks against Israel. They are not Lebanese soldiers, they’re probably best categorized as irregulars within the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12381 Posts
On September 18 2024 22:13 Excludos wrote: Are you trying to tell nations at war not to attack enemy soldiers? I don't think you've thought this entirely through What war is that | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17621 Posts
On September 18 2024 16:52 r00ty wrote: News of the morning is, that the pagers were produced under a license deal in Hungary, but the manufacturer wasn't involved. The delivery was intercepted and the devices were modified with explosives by Israeli intelligence. No one saw it coming, but US intelligence was informed about the operation. That's pretty impressive. More info coming out:
Now not only pagers but also phones and walkie-talkies are exploding. One was detonated at a funeral of one of the people caught in the pager bombing. That's next level terrorism. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
On September 18 2024 22:39 KwarK wrote: Hezbollah aren’t Lebanese army soldiers, Hezbollah shoot Lebanese army soldiers. They’re a well armed externally funded externally led group that has occupied Lebanon. It’s like how multinational cartels functionally control parts of Central America without being the national army. Israel isn’t at war with Lebanon. Lebanon used to be the jewel of the eastern Mediterranean. After the violence of the foundation of Israel (and anyone who has read my earlier posts on the subject will note that I’m not at all sympathetic to the Zionist nationalist cause in the 40s and believe that Palestine and it’s population should have been defended from Zionist terrorists in 1948) Lebanon was flooded with Palestinian refugees. They formed militias dedicated to reconquering their homeland. This brought them into conflict with Israel and therefore the Lebanese government which didn’t want to be at war with Israel. A civil war broke out in 1976 between the Lebanese government and the Palestinian militias occupying southern Lebanon. In 1978 the UN created the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, a peacekeeping force tasked with assisting the Lebanese government reassert sovereignty over southern Lebanon. They haven’t done shit. They’ve done so little that Israel has repeatedly had to directly intervene with the IDF because the UN peacekeeping force failed to keep the peace. Meanwhile the Lebanese government has gradually failed over the last fifty years. People who remember the country before it was ruined are now in their 70s, Lebanese soldiers fighting today have to ask their grandparents about the country they’re fighting for. There’s no future. Anyone with the means to leave has left. The destruction of the port infrastructure in Beirut crippled the economy further and now they can’t even keep the power on. Hezbollah are an Iranian armed Iranian funded Iranian led paramilitary group that has conquered southern Lebanon to use as a base for launching attacks against Israel. They are not Lebanese soldiers, they’re probably best categorized as irregulars within the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. I am not sympathetic towards Hezbollah and I know that they are not Lebanon or the good guys. I can still say, that Israel is under no obligation to kill any irregular combatants of militant groups opposing them. Or Iranian generals, or the children of Hezbollah fighters playing with pagers of their fathers. Israel could just chose to not do these things. It's only a war if they kill back and so far the threat to Israeli citizens by Hezbollah has been, according to a BBC article I found, 10 civilian casualties on Israels side. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2707 Posts
On September 19 2024 00:24 Magic Powers wrote: I think until we know the identity of the deceased, it's a bit difficult to judge the situation. That being said, the fact that thousands got injured is alarming. That has got to be mostly civilians, so I'd guess there are likely also civilians among the victims. We'll see. This quote is almost the perfect example of an extremely one sided worldview that seems completely pervasive among people with pro-Palestinian views. Honestly. Mossad targets the personal communication devices issued to Hezbollah fighters, items typically worn at all times. And this is the only reasonable interpretation on who got hit: That being said, the fact that thousands got injured is alarming. That has got to be mostly civilians. Wouldn't logic dictate that if the vector off attack is a pager used for communication by enemy soldiers, typically worn or at least in close proximity, and the explosive charge is very small without any shrapnel (as seen in videos) then the amount of civilian casualties or injuries should be very low? | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
The Iraq war had far more than one civilian death per combatant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War The Afghan war was about 1:1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001–2021) Unless you're fighting people in a trench like Ukraine, it's hard to avoid civilian casualties. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9161 Posts
On September 19 2024 00:13 Manit0u wrote: More info coming out:
Now not only pagers but also phones and walkie-talkies are exploding. One was detonated at a funeral of one of the people caught in the pager bombing. That's next level terrorism. So they got newly supplied pagers and walkie talkies within the last 5 months, all the pagers simultaneously exploded yesterday, and today they were using the walkie talkies carefree without even the curiosity to open them up? | ||
Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On September 19 2024 01:26 Broetchenholer wrote: I am not sympathetic towards Hezbollah and I know that they are not Lebanon or the good guys. I can still say, that Israel is under no obligation to kill any irregular combatants of militant groups opposing them. Or Iranian generals, or the children of Hezbollah fighters playing with pagers of their fathers. Israel could just chose to not do these things. It's only a war if they kill back and so far the threat to Israeli citizens by Hezbollah has been, according to a BBC article I found, 10 civilian casualties on Israels side. Why would the Israeli government let a fundamentalist terror organisation continue to make the northern part of their country uninhabitable for the ~50 000 people who are now internal refugees? | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23599 Posts
The US government gave the head of the government calling those supporters of Palestinians "terrorists" multiple standing ovations. That same lauded government recently killed an American citizen without cause or accountability. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12381 Posts
On September 19 2024 01:28 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: This quote is almost the perfect example of an extremely one sided worldview that seems completely pervasive among people with pro-Palestinian views. Honestly. Mossad targets the personal communication devices issued to Hezbollah fighters, items typically worn at all times. And this is the only reasonable interpretation on who got hit: Wouldn't logic dictate that if the vector off attack is a pager used for communication by enemy soldiers, typically worn or at least in close proximity, and the explosive charge is very small without any shrapnel (as seen in videos) then the amount of civilian casualties or injuries should be very low? Some of what you said is going on, yeah, it's easier to look for something wrong when the side that you dislike is doing something new. I don't think this attack was a good thing to do, but I can acknowledge that it's certainly better than bombing a place. Doing nothing would have been even better. Now most of this conversation is happening with people who were completely fine with Israel bombing the place, so they shouldn't really care that Israel is doing something different (and my guess is they don't). But I remember that's not where you stood. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 19 2024 02:18 Jockmcplop wrote: As long as we accept that making people explode, no matter who are where they are at the time, isn't a terrorist attack, we are going to have to acknowledge the same for suicide bombers no matter who or where they are... But the “who” does matter. Blowing up hezbollah fighters is different than blowing up a city bus | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9161 Posts
On September 19 2024 02:12 GreenHorizons wrote: Worth considering that Israel justifies putting explosives in consumer electronics by saying they were blowing up "terrorists" while Israel also identifies people like those that engaged in the pro-Palestinian actions on various campuses around the US as "terrorists". The US government gave the head of the government calling those supporters of Palestinians "terrorists" multiple standing ovations. That same lauded government recently killed an American citizen without cause or accountability. Mind sourcing that? I'm not asking this in an 'I don't believe you' sort of way, but I can't find it and I'm curious about the wording. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23599 Posts
On September 19 2024 02:47 Dan HH wrote: Mind sourcing that? I'm not asking this in an 'I don't believe you' sort of way, but I can't find it and I'm curious about the wording. No problem, here is one example: | ||
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