EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 784
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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farvacola
United States18828 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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riotjune
United States3393 Posts
On October 02 2018 02:22 NewSunshine wrote: I make this distinction when I call it an internment camp. Though there is little difference between internment/concentration camps, the connotation from Nazi Germany is that they are essentially death camps. We're not there yet. But my hopes are not high for it to stay that way. You sure? With all those undocumented "missing" children I bet those who deal in the black market organ trade are making a killing. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6220 Posts
On October 02 2018 02:41 riotjune wrote: You sure? With all those undocumented "missing" children I bet those who deal in the black market organ trade are making a killing. Which is still rather different than the death camps of Nazi Germany where humans got killed on industrial scale. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Biggest changes having to do with opening up US dairy to Canada (same deal Canada gave the EU apparently so nothing new) and some minor changes to car production requirements. Much of the infrastructure of NAFTA is still in place. It's also very similar to what the US would have gotten through the TPP with Canada. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:09 On_Slaught wrote: And there it is. You know it isnt NAFTA (despite being almost identical) because it isnt called NAFTA anymore. It's now called the USMCA! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1046708836407685122 Biggest changes having to do with opening up US dairy to Canada (same deal Canada gave the EU apparently so nothing new) and some minor changes to car production requirements. Much of the infrastructure of NAFTA is still in place. I think it is a lot more significant than you are giving credit for. From WaPo: There’s also a new rule that a significant percentage of the work done on the car must be completed by workers earning at least $16 an hour, or about three times what the typical Mexican autoworker makes. Starting in 2020, cars and trucks should have at least 30 percent of the work on the vehicle done by workers earning $16 an hour. That gradually moves up to 40 percent for cars by 2023. While many economists think these new rules will help some North American workers, they also warn that car prices might rise and some small cars may no longer be made in North America because they would be too expensive under the new requirements. There are also concerns that automakers might not make as many cars in North America to export to China and elsewhere overseas because costs would be higher in the USMCA region than making the vehicles in Asia. and Improved labor and environmental rights. The USMCA makes a number of significant upgrades to environmental and labor regulations, especially regarding Mexico. For example, the USMCA stipulates that Mexican trucks that cross the border into the United States must meet higher safety regulations and that Mexican workers must have more ability to organize and form unions. Some of these provisions might be difficult to enforce, but the Trump administration says it is committed to ensuring these happen — a reason U.S. labor unions and some Democrats are cheering the new rules. Both seem like total slam dunks in my eyes. I am totally satisfied with this deal. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/01/us-canada-mexico-just-reached-sweeping-new-nafta-deal-heres-whats-it/?utm_term=.6545e3ceb15d | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:12 Mohdoo wrote: I think it is a lot more significant than you are giving credit for. From WaPo: and Both seem like total slam dunks in my eyes. I am totally satisfied with this deal. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/01/us-canada-mexico-just-reached-sweeping-new-nafta-deal-heres-whats-it/?utm_term=.6545e3ceb15d I'm not sure I agree. We spent a fuck ton of political capital to make Mexican Car Manufactor Workers and Truck Drivers great again? The article you cited points out the danger of this. By doing this on top of increasing the percentage of the car which must be made in NA (62.5% to 75%) you are in effect making two huge moves which will have car companies second guessing the economic viability of making cars in NA. No matter what it seems prices will go up, so I think I was wrong to call these changes minor above. Also, the Steel tarrifs are still in place after all this somehow. Based on the Press Conference we just saw from Trump youd think he just reinvented the wheel. These are minor changes against the bulk of NAFTAs 2000 pages of infrastructure and rules which remains in place. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:24 On_Slaught wrote: I'm not sure I agree. We spent a fuck ton of political capital to make Mexican Car Manufactor Workers and Truck Drivers great again? The article you cited points out the danger of this. By doing this on top of increasing the percentage of the car which must be made in NA (62.5% to 75%) you are in effect making two huge moves which will have car companies second guessing the economic viability of making cars in NA. No matter what it seems prices will go up. Also, the Steel tarrifs are still in place after all this somehow. Based on the Press Conference we just saw from Trump youd think he just reinvented the wheel. These are minor changes against the bulk of NAFTAs 2000 pages of infrastructure and rules which remains in place. And from a Canadian side, we had our people away from things like UN security council meetings for 13 months so that the Republicans could flex their genitalia just to come up with a virtually identical agreement. Thanks, "neighbors." I've paid special attention to not buying US products and not traveling through the US in all of 2018 for crap like this. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11519 Posts
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:34 mikedebo wrote: And from a Canadian side, we had our people away from things like UN security council meetings for 13 months so that the Republicans could flex their genitalia just to come up with a virtually identical agreement. Thanks, "neighbors." I've paid special attention to not buying US products and not traveling through the US in all of 2018 for crap like this. Travel to the US has increased since Trump got elected. Also the Canadian dollar got a nice bump with this news so that helps with buying US goods. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-tourist-travel-to-united-states-increase-since-trump-1.4764663 | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12204 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:34 Plansix wrote: That is firmly Trump’s brand as President. Light a bunch of stuff on fire and then claim he re-invented the fire hose after putting it out. This one is not going to go well. When talking to people who defend Trump online you often encounter people who talk about eliminating NAFTA (I'm fairly sure that even happened here, I think I remember xDaunt talking about it at some point). A lot of these people won't care that it now has a different name, and my guess is a bunch of them are in the key states. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35154 Posts
On October 02 2018 04:02 Nebuchad wrote: This one is not going to go well. When talking to people who defend Trump online you often encounter people who talk about eliminating NAFTA (I'm fairly sure that even happened here, I think I remember xDaunt talking about it at some point). A lot of these people won't care that it now has a different name, and my guess is a bunch of them are in the key states. They wouldn't care if it was literally just NAFTA with the name whited out. It's a deal by their guy, so it's great. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12204 Posts
On October 02 2018 04:06 Gahlo wrote: They wouldn't care if it was literally just NAFTA with the name whited out. It's a deal by their guy, so it's great. The main base, sure, but you can't win an election off of the main base only | ||
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Gahlo
United States35154 Posts
On October 02 2018 04:09 Nebuchad wrote: The main base, sure, but you can't win an election off of the main base only You can as long as the main base is large enough to force the party at large to go along with what you want. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 02 2018 04:20 Gahlo wrote: You can as long as the main base is large enough to force the party at large to go along with what you want. In the long term, backing ineffective deals and garbage catches up with politicians. You can only lie to the public of so long before they vote you out of office. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 02 2018 04:25 Plansix wrote: In the long term, backing ineffective deals and garbage catches up with politicians. You can only lie to the public of so long before they vote you out of office. I'm not convinced this is a garbage deal. It is basically TPP with more workers rights for Mexicans so that Mexican factories aren't as cheap to operate. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16712 Posts
On October 02 2018 03:09 On_Slaught wrote: Biggest changes having to do with opening up US dairy to Canada (same deal Canada gave the EU apparently so nothing new) you're kidding right? do you know how much European Dairy products that Canadians buy? Wadaya wanna bet the "swiss cheese" in my fridge was made and processed in guelph? due to proximity northern US dairy farmers products are a 1000X bigger threat to canadians producers than whatever farmers are making in Germany and Belgium. | ||
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