|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 22 2024 00:46 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. You get to choose your battles. Not me. If you can't look at the context surrounding discussions of Harris's race and gender, and can't understand why people are talking about it at all, I honestly can't help you. We've had 1 president in this country's entire history that isn't a white man, and we've had 0 women in the office, period. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't understand why the whole race, including the aftermath, is being discussed in light of the fact that Kamala Harris was the first woman of color to run for President. You insist that none of that matters, well there's plenty to disagree with that. Open your eyes. It's called being "woke" for a reason, despite all the right-wing venom surrounding the term, it has a meaning.
Its not that he doesn't understand, its that Trump supporters firmly and forever believe that qualifications are absolutely the most important thing for working in government.
As long as their leaders consistently pick the most qualified person for the job, TRUMP supporters are happy.
|
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On November 22 2024 00:16 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 23:43 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 20:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:
[quote]
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. In a society that has a fairly large amount of racism against black people but very little against white people, do you call it "constantly invoking race" to talk about the racism problem? One can still talk about race, badly, and that does get people’s backs up for sure. I can have some sympathy there, but it’s still inarguably a factor. However that can elicit a reaction in the complete opposite direction intended. By want of an analogy, some SC2 balance whiners are incredibly annoying, often outright wrong, and often very loud and prominent. It’s reasonable to conclude that some folks are obsessed with balance, and perhaps don’t know what they’re talking about, and find it irritating. Hell, I find that myself. One has to be careful not to go full reaction on it and conclude that these people are annoying lunatics, balance is perfect, why do people keep talking about balance? Or alternatively going, ‘balance isn’t perfect but it’ll get there, stop talking about it.’ The irritation and disagreement, perfectly reasonable, but it the behaviour of an extreme shouldn’t dictate one’s feelings on the actual issue(s) itself, and I think for many it does. I think the conservative backlash should motivate us to talk more, not less, about the prevalence and injustice of racism. The more it's being talked about, the more it enters the general consciousness. That's how major societal change is made over time. I myself used to be on the fence regarding the idea that Western societies such as the US are still very racist against minorities. That changed over time as I saw more and more examples of it, while seeing very few examples of anti-white racism. Right-wingers want us to shut up. That's why we won't shut up, instead we talk more. And when they cry about us talking more, we talk even more. We just keep talking, we dominate the discourse more and more over time until society changes.
Oh absolutely, there are just good and bad ways to go around having those conversations.
Least in my experience I spend as much time trying to undo the damage of people who chose bad approaches on the issues, as I do the issues themselves in these kind of conversations.
It’s still something I’ll continue to do, but I think it’s also incumbent to criticise approaches that clearly don’t work and those who employ them as well.
Also acknowledge the realities of intersectional identity in their totality. Over here for example white, working class Protestant males are an increasingly lagging demographic in terms of educational attainment and subsequent employment prospects.
There are zero programs to uplift those guys, no targeted scholarships, no affirmative action programs with employers, etc etc
They’re somewhat shafted between being white dudes from the demographic that was historically dominant here, in a world that is trying to redress that dominance, while also suffering from general socio-economic deprivation at the other end of that scale.
I’m from that community myself, albeit from a lower middle class background. There’s nout for me either, even with a mental health condition most outreach in the industry I’m trying to get into is uplifting women or BAME folks. I’m not Catholic, so institutions that are trying to equalise representation on that axis will prioritise folks on that basis.
Now, I’m not against those kind of programs either, I think they’re overall necessary.
One thing you can’t say to that cohort is banging on that they’re privileged because well, what privilege?
|
On November 22 2024 00:49 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 00:46 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Quite generous by your standards.
The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it.
This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either.
People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. You get to choose your battles. Not me. If you can't look at the context surrounding discussions of Harris's race and gender, and can't understand why people are talking about it at all, I honestly can't help you. We've had 1 president in this country's entire history that isn't a white man, and we've had 0 women in the office, period. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't understand why the whole race, including the aftermath, is being discussed in light of the fact that Kamala Harris was the first woman of color to run for President. You insist that none of that matters, well there's plenty to disagree with that. Open your eyes. It's called being "woke" for a reason, despite all the right-wing venom surrounding the term, it has a meaning. Its not that he doesn't understand, its that Trump supporters firmly and forever believe that qualifications are absolutely the most important thing for working in government. As long as their leaders consistently pick the most qualified person for the job, TRUMP supporters are happy.
And "qualifications" are always in the eye of the beholder. Now more than ever, "qualified" means they hate the right people and they're fighting for "the team". Not to mention that for many, the core qualification of being a Christian white man is something they avoid giving words to.
|
On November 22 2024 01:28 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 00:49 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 22 2024 00:46 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:
[quote]
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. You get to choose your battles. Not me. If you can't look at the context surrounding discussions of Harris's race and gender, and can't understand why people are talking about it at all, I honestly can't help you. We've had 1 president in this country's entire history that isn't a white man, and we've had 0 women in the office, period. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't understand why the whole race, including the aftermath, is being discussed in light of the fact that Kamala Harris was the first woman of color to run for President. You insist that none of that matters, well there's plenty to disagree with that. Open your eyes. It's called being "woke" for a reason, despite all the right-wing venom surrounding the term, it has a meaning. Its not that he doesn't understand, its that Trump supporters firmly and forever believe that qualifications are absolutely the most important thing for working in government. As long as their leaders consistently pick the most qualified person for the job, TRUMP supporters are happy. And "qualifications" are always in the eye of the beholder. Now more than ever, "qualified" means they hate the right people and they're fighting for "the team". Not to mention that for many, the core qualification of being a Christian white man is something they avoid giving words to.
I'd actually accept this loose definition of 'qualified' if you also include 'qualified' as someone who appeals to the Demographics that the Dems decided to target.
Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have miscalculated that a bit, but you can't really blame them for trying it, even if they ended up screwing it up.
|
I mean, honestly I'm still torn about how things went for the Dems and what they're supposed to take from it. On one level, the US electorate has the attention span of a goldfish, and even if Biden was still sharp as a tack and re-ran as planned, he still might've lost. People misattribute the fact that they're struggling to the efforts of the president's administration, when by all metrics and expert accounts the US did an exceptional job of navigating the post-COVID economic shock under Biden. That's just a fact. Other first-world countries saw levels of inflation that would make what we deal with look cute. We got one of the best possible hands from what was generally a shit deck.
On another, maybe the Dems had a historic opportunity? Harris certainly hit the ground running and made every possible move that someone would've had to make if they were following up Biden stepping down. So what was the impact of the higher-level decisions they made? Should they have gone harder on a Gaza ceasefire? Probably. I think so. Should they have spent less time courting Republicans when the ones who would've defected were already endorsing her on their own? Yeah, I think so.
Then I think about the demographics of it. Black women in this country seemed energized like they never were before, because they were finally being seen and represented in the race. Obama proved the racial hurdle could be cleared, but Hillary failed to clear the hurdle of being a woman. It's likely the latter held more sway with people. The thing that boggles my mind is that some 30 million Americans just didn't turn out to vote this time. Neither candidate, including Trump, got nearly as many votes as they did in 2020. So something more could've been done it feels like. But like I said, being the incumbent becomes a pretty serious disadvantage in US politics when things are bad and the average voter can't be arsed to do anything beyond voting against whoever's in power.
|
On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves.
Why offer such absolutes? It's just Kwark (as far as I remember) offering a similar absolute of it just being race and gender. Everyone else seems to fall in to "It's a factor" which seems like it very well could be considering the country's history with sexism and racism.
|
On November 22 2024 01:42 NewSunshine wrote:
I mean, honestly I'm still torn about how things went for the Dems and what they're supposed to take from it. On one level, the US electorate has the attention span of a goldfish, and even if Biden was still sharp as a tack and re-ran as planned, he still might've lost. People misattribute the fact that they're struggling to the efforts of the president's administration, when by all metrics and expert accounts the US did an exceptional job of navigating the post-COVID economic shock under Biden. That's just a fact. Other first-world countries saw levels of inflation that would make what we deal with look cute. We got one of the best possible hands from what was generally a shit deck.
On another, maybe the Dems had a historic opportunity? Harris certainly hit the ground running and made every possible move that someone would've had to make if they were following up Biden stepping down. So what was the impact of the higher-level decisions they made? Should they have gone harder on a Gaza ceasefire? Probably. I think so. Should they have spent less time courting Republicans when the ones who would've defected were already endorsing her on their own? Yeah, I think so.
Then I think about the demographics of it. Black women in this country seemed energized like they never were before, because they were finally being seen and represented in the race. Obama proved the racial hurdle could be cleared, but Hillary failed to clear the hurdle of being a woman. It's likely the latter held more sway with people. The thing that boggles my mind is that some 30 million Americans just didn't turn out to vote this time. Neither candidate, including Trump, got nearly as many votes as they did in 2020. So something more could've been done it feels like. But like I said, being the incumbent becomes a pretty serious disadvantage in US politics when things are bad and the average voter can't be arsed to do anything beyond voting against whoever's in power.
As more votes are counted Trump is now 2 million votes over 2020 (and gaining). His performance in blue states is really improved. Harris is well below what Biden was at. I think I read that Harris might improve on Biden's margin in zero states. The turnout differential is far, far less than 30 million. So both will end above Trump's 2020 number but below Biden's 2020 number. Just FYI
|
On November 22 2024 02:20 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 01:42 NewSunshine wrote:
I mean, honestly I'm still torn about how things went for the Dems and what they're supposed to take from it. On one level, the US electorate has the attention span of a goldfish, and even if Biden was still sharp as a tack and re-ran as planned, he still might've lost. People misattribute the fact that they're struggling to the efforts of the president's administration, when by all metrics and expert accounts the US did an exceptional job of navigating the post-COVID economic shock under Biden. That's just a fact. Other first-world countries saw levels of inflation that would make what we deal with look cute. We got one of the best possible hands from what was generally a shit deck.
On another, maybe the Dems had a historic opportunity? Harris certainly hit the ground running and made every possible move that someone would've had to make if they were following up Biden stepping down. So what was the impact of the higher-level decisions they made? Should they have gone harder on a Gaza ceasefire? Probably. I think so. Should they have spent less time courting Republicans when the ones who would've defected were already endorsing her on their own? Yeah, I think so.
Then I think about the demographics of it. Black women in this country seemed energized like they never were before, because they were finally being seen and represented in the race. Obama proved the racial hurdle could be cleared, but Hillary failed to clear the hurdle of being a woman. It's likely the latter held more sway with people. The thing that boggles my mind is that some 30 million Americans just didn't turn out to vote this time. Neither candidate, including Trump, got nearly as many votes as they did in 2020. So something more could've been done it feels like. But like I said, being the incumbent becomes a pretty serious disadvantage in US politics when things are bad and the average voter can't be arsed to do anything beyond voting against whoever's in power. As more votes are counted Trump is now 2 million votes over 2020 (and gaining). His performance in blue states is really improved. Harris is well below what Biden was at. I think I read that Harris might improve on Biden's margin in zero states. The turnout differential is far, far less than 30 million. So both will end above Trump's 2020 number but below Biden's 2020 number. Just FYI
Ah, okay, I stand corrected, thanks. I guess I was remembering the moment when the race was called, but naturally the final tally only stands to go up. Hadn't checked it in a minute.
|
|
|
On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285
Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao).
|
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285
What smear attempts?
Seems good news across the board. Conservatives can get an AG candidate without all that baggage, and indeed some have reservations about him, non-conservatives can enjoy having someone who’s not Matt Gaetz nominated for the position.
|
On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao).
Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy.
|
On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy.
ROFL, okay buddy
|
On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao).
I'd bet any amount of money that Trump could sex-traffic minors and still at least win the Republican primary.
On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy.
Between your excuses for both Trump and Gaetz, it's... uh... interesting to see your consistent sympathy for rapists.
|
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy.
Matt Gaetz saw 3 buses approaching and leaped onto the road immediately and lay prostrate as they each ran him over in turn.
I’ve certainly seen cases where allegations = ‘they definitely did it’ has occurred, in the absence of any compelling evidence, and perhaps something societally we have to be careful in judging, but man this guy sure as fuck isn’t one of those
|
On November 22 2024 02:16 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves. Why offer such absolutes? It's just Kwark (as far as I remember) offering a similar absolute of it just being race and gender. Everyone else seems to fall in to "It's a factor" which seems like it very well could be considering the country's history with sexism and racism.
Thanks, you’re absolutely right.
|
On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy.
I wasn't planning to sex traffick and/or fuck minors so i'll be good on that 
|
On November 22 2024 02:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). I'd bet any amount of money that Trump could sex-traffic minors and still at least win the Republican primary. Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy. Between your excuses for both Trump and Gaetz, it's... uh... interesting to see your consistent sympathy for rapists.
It must be so convenient to just be able to swap out the letters c and p and be able to describe everyone you oppose, every single time, and be right every single time. Wish I could find such an easymode worldview.
|
On November 22 2024 02:43 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 02:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). I'd bet any amount of money that Trump could sex-traffic minors and still at least win the Republican primary. On November 22 2024 02:33 oBlade wrote:On November 22 2024 02:29 Luolis wrote:On November 22 2024 02:27 oBlade wrote:Gaetz has withdrawn from AG consideration probably due to private news of stonewallers in the senate who couldn't get past the Biden DOJ's extensive smear attempts. https://x.com/mattgaetz/status/1859649045553402285 Dont sex traffick minors and you wont get into trouble (not that Gaetz even got into any trouble lmao). Hope people give you a better shake the day you ever get thrown under the bus buddy. Between your excuses for both Trump and Gaetz, it's... uh... interesting to see your consistent sympathy for rapists. It must be so convenient to just be able to swap out the letters c and p and be able to describe everyone you oppose, every single time, and be right every single time. Wish I could find such an easymode worldview.
Wow, what a garbage take.
I don't understand why you think opposing rapists and racists should be a difficult worldview.
I don't talk about Gaetz much (obviously he's relevant right now), but I've gone into serious depth about all the issues I have with Trump, and they don't just reduce to him being a racist and a rapist. But I guess if you dismiss all the other legitimate issues we have with Trump and Gaetz - and I guess if you also condone rape and racism - then I could totally see why you would like them and simply hand-wave statutory rape as Gaetz "getting thrown under the bus". Poor Gaetz!!! Won't somebody please think of the children rapists?
Do better.
|
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On November 22 2024 01:28 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2024 00:49 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 22 2024 00:46 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:
[quote]
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. You get to choose your battles. Not me. If you can't look at the context surrounding discussions of Harris's race and gender, and can't understand why people are talking about it at all, I honestly can't help you. We've had 1 president in this country's entire history that isn't a white man, and we've had 0 women in the office, period. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't understand why the whole race, including the aftermath, is being discussed in light of the fact that Kamala Harris was the first woman of color to run for President. You insist that none of that matters, well there's plenty to disagree with that. Open your eyes. It's called being "woke" for a reason, despite all the right-wing venom surrounding the term, it has a meaning. Its not that he doesn't understand, its that Trump supporters firmly and forever believe that qualifications are absolutely the most important thing for working in government. As long as their leaders consistently pick the most qualified person for the job, TRUMP supporters are happy. And "qualifications" are always in the eye of the beholder. Now more than ever, "qualified" means they hate the right people and they're fighting for "the team". Not to mention that for many, the core qualification of being a Christian white man is something they avoid giving words to.
In a wider sense, going back to the whole racism still being a factor I remember reading some research folks at a UK university did.
Identical CVs, just swapped names around. Obviously non-white names being attached saw a worse rate of getting invited to an interview. Women slightly worse than men, but not as pronounced. Obviously non-white female names being bottom of the pile.
The UK has a million subtle cultural signifiers, more than any place I’m aware of in the Anglosphere, or Europe too. A lot of very distinctive regional accents that confer stereotypical judgements.
Another study recorded folks from these various social/cultural strata saying identical statements and asked members of the public to assess the intelligence of the folks saying them.
The more posh accents, the kind Americans tend to stereotypically associate with us Brits scored highest. Liverpudlians scored lowest IIRC, Bristolians and Birmingham dwellers did worst alongside folks from Essex. Us Northern Irish did pretty badly too. Oddly enough Southern Irish were simultaneously quite well-received
There is still prejudice in the most innate, stupid shit. If your accent is one, your skin colour is sure as fuck going to be one
I’ve a neutral enough, deadpan twang. One that bleeds through Northern Irish at times, but has elements somewhat unique to me, nobody talks like me that I’ve yet encountered, not even my brother. To the degree people don’t place me here and I’ve been asked probably triple figures at this point if I’m originally American or Canadian. While annoying at times, I also 100% think people think I’m smarter than if I talked with a thick inner city Belfast accent. It’s not a pleasant thing. I can do a pretty bang on impression of it but it’s not my natural cadence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
