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Norway28667 Posts
Personally I think her sex was a much bigger factor. I do think a lot of americans have a 'women aren't fit to be president' attitude - also women - but I think Obama largely ended that for race. I mean yeah there are still racists but I have a hard time picturing those people voting democrat no matter the candidate they run, meanwhile the Obama-Trump voters clearly weren't hindered by Kamala's ethnicity. Trump did better with blacks than any republican for like 20 years? Harris dropped 10 points with black voters - largely male - compared to Biden, hard to picture ethnicity being the deciding factor there.
Anecdotally I see a whole lot more overt sexism than I see overt racism too. Among young men there's a ton of genuine opposition to what they feel is a 'feminization' of society - a development they feel demands them to conform in ways they're not comfortable - and while many of the same people will be like 'immigration is too high and that's problematic', I literally never see 'I don't like that guy cause he's just too african'. Again, this part is more 'Norway', but I feel there's a global trend happening here.
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United States42689 Posts
On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud.
I agree with literally none of this.
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On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination.
Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction.
Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening.
Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good.
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United States10501 Posts
On November 21 2024 07:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Trump did better with blacks than any republican for like 20 years? Harris dropped 10 points with black voters - largely male - compared to Biden, hard to picture ethnicity being the deciding factor there.
Clearly just internalized racism. Black people can be white supremacists too. There just happens to be a lot more black white supremacists than the last election.
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United States10501 Posts
On November 21 2024 07:50 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction. Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good.
Dems: We need biological males in women's sports and women's spaces. We need books depicting blowjobs in school libraries. We need to let children know they can be any gender they want. We need to reduce the number of whites and Asians getting into ivy league schools. We need to ensure black students are being taught by black teachers. We need to reduce the numbers of whites and Asians getting into prestigious schools. We need more discrimination and segregation on the basis of race.
Conservatives: eh.. let's not do that.
Dems: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars!
Do Republicans play up the culture wars for political gain? Of course. If someone lobs you up a softball you'd be a fool to not hit it out of the park. I just happen to place more blame on the Dems for trying to promote stupid policies than on the Republicans for taking advantage to win easy votes.
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this.
Quite generous by your standards.
The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it.
This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either.
People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
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On November 21 2024 08:07 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 07:50 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction. Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good. Dems: We need biological males in women's sports and women's spaces. We need books depicting blowjobs in school libraries. We need to let children know they can be any gender they want. We need to reduce the number of whites and Asians getting into ivy league schools. We need to ensure black students are being taught by black teachers. We need to reduce the numbers of whites and Asians getting into prestigious schools. We need more discrimination and segregation on the basis of race.
Conservatives: eh.. let's not do that.
Dems: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars!Do Republicans play up the culture wars for political gain? Of course. If someone lobs you up a softball you'd be a fool to not hit it out of the park. I just happen to place more blame on the Dems for trying to promote stupid policies than on the Republicans for taking advantage to win easy votes.
Really? Let me try to do the reverse:
Conservatives: We need to tell everyone that if you're gay, you're a piece of shit. If you're trans, you're a child molester. Black people should either be banned from running for president (Obama) or banned from being black (Harris). If you're Hispanic, you're either a murderer or a drug dealer or you steal and eat people's pets. If you're a woman, you have too many rights and we need to dial them back.
Dems: eh.. let's not do that.
Conservatives: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars!
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On November 21 2024 08:07 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 07:50 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction. Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good. Dems: We need biological males in women's sports and women's spaces. We need books depicting blowjobs in school libraries. We need to let children know they can be any gender they want. We need to reduce the number of whites and Asians getting into ivy league schools. We need to ensure black students are being taught by black teachers. We need to reduce the numbers of whites and Asians getting into prestigious schools. We need more discrimination and segregation on the basis of race. Conservatives: eh.. let's not do that. Dems: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars! Do Republicans play up the culture wars for political gain? Of course. If someone lobs you up a softball you'd be a fool to not hit it out of the park. I just happen to place more blame on the Dems for trying to promote stupid policies than on the Republicans for taking advantage to win easy votes.
I've been saying for years that dems are obviously the culture warriors, they just know the label is toxic so they try to frame any opposition to their enlightened social policies as culture wars. Meanwhile they call their opponents reactionary. I dont know how you can be both the agressor and the reactionary, but there you go. They should instead embrace it, after all they are the ones trying to make "progress." If America has all the prohlems they say it does then "culture warrior" should have a positive connotation. The word games are either a result of being extremely silo'd in their own world and believing they are *obviously* right or it's just dishonesty. But it appears fewer and fewer people are falling for it.
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United States10501 Posts
On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you?
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On November 21 2024 05:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 05:11 Zambrah wrote:
Dr Oz was, to my knowledge, a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon, however he discovered the truth about capitalism, which is that it wasn't going to reward him for being a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon who saved lives nearly as much as it would reward him for being a nonsense pill peddler on Oprah or whatever day time TV trash, lol. You mean to tell me Judge Judy isn’t the best judge in America?!
Judge Judy is a fuckin' lawyer.
Like I know (well actually wait no I don't... I believe?) you have to be a lawyer to work your way up to judge, but what I mean is, she reads the cases before the show airs, typically has decided by then, and then spends the episode questioning the plaintiff and defendant in such a fashion as to best construct/re-tell the story in a way that matches with how she's decided to rule.
And she's damn good at it. I don't even mean it in a bad way, honestly she seems to have a real good sense of "fair" for the most part. Then again, there's also frequent examples of her money basically insulating her from the realities of the lives of the litigants.
...I have watched a lot of Judge Judy.
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On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you?
Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all?
That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented.
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On November 21 2024 09:38 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 05:32 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 05:11 Zambrah wrote:
Dr Oz was, to my knowledge, a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon, however he discovered the truth about capitalism, which is that it wasn't going to reward him for being a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon who saved lives nearly as much as it would reward him for being a nonsense pill peddler on Oprah or whatever day time TV trash, lol. You mean to tell me Judge Judy isn’t the best judge in America?! Judge Judy is a fuckin' lawyer. Like I know (well actually wait no I don't... I believe?) you have to be a lawyer to work your way up to judge, but what I mean is, she reads the cases before the show airs, typically has decided by then, and then spends the episode questioning the plaintiff and defendant in such a fashion as to best construct/re-tell the story in a way that matches with how she's decided to rule. And she's damn good at it. I don't even mean it in a bad way, honestly she seems to have a real good sense of "fair" for the most part. Then again, there's also frequent examples of her money basically insulating her from the realities of the lives of the litigants. ...I have watched a lot of Judge Judy.
So did I, mostly as a kid. But go look up her net worth, it blew my mind when I first saw it.
This isn’t to diss Judge Judy Dredd, I quite enjoy her shtick, merely following on from Zambrah’s point on Dr Oz
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you?
There’s potential, neither side of the aisle just particularly tries.
Being quite far on one side of a particular aisle, I do personally try, but I’m both neither flawless, and just one bloke.
I do expect ostensible open-minded centrists to occasionally exhibit that, some do, plenty don’t.
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On November 21 2024 09:42 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 09:38 Turbovolver wrote:On November 21 2024 05:32 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 05:11 Zambrah wrote:
Dr Oz was, to my knowledge, a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon, however he discovered the truth about capitalism, which is that it wasn't going to reward him for being a genuinely exceptional heart surgeon who saved lives nearly as much as it would reward him for being a nonsense pill peddler on Oprah or whatever day time TV trash, lol. You mean to tell me Judge Judy isn’t the best judge in America?! Judge Judy is a fuckin' lawyer. Like I know (well actually wait no I don't... I believe?) you have to be a lawyer to work your way up to judge, but what I mean is, she reads the cases before the show airs, typically has decided by then, and then spends the episode questioning the plaintiff and defendant in such a fashion as to best construct/re-tell the story in a way that matches with how she's decided to rule. And she's damn good at it. I don't even mean it in a bad way, honestly she seems to have a real good sense of "fair" for the most part. Then again, there's also frequent examples of her money basically insulating her from the realities of the lives of the litigants. ...I have watched a lot of Judge Judy. So did I, mostly as a kid. But go look up her net worth, it blew my mind when I first saw it. This isn’t to diss Judge Judy Dredd, I quite enjoy her shtick, merely following on from Zambrah’s point on Dr Oz
Yeah I know, I just wanted to give my take on JJ. Also yeah, I knew she was really rich but I would've guessed more like $20-100mil than $500mil, heh.
I kinda respect it. At least she got there by being entertaining, after years of non-televised work in the field, and not in some griftery way. The cases are realer than MrBeast's videos.
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United States10501 Posts
On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented.
I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area
A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English.
It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that.
But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school!
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On November 21 2024 08:23 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 08:07 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 07:50 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction. Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good. Dems: We need biological males in women's sports and women's spaces. We need books depicting blowjobs in school libraries. We need to let children know they can be any gender they want. We need to reduce the number of whites and Asians getting into ivy league schools. We need to ensure black students are being taught by black teachers. We need to reduce the numbers of whites and Asians getting into prestigious schools. We need more discrimination and segregation on the basis of race. Conservatives: eh.. let's not do that. Dems: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars! Do Republicans play up the culture wars for political gain? Of course. If someone lobs you up a softball you'd be a fool to not hit it out of the park. I just happen to place more blame on the Dems for trying to promote stupid policies than on the Republicans for taking advantage to win easy votes. I've been saying for years that dems are obviously the culture warriors, they just know the label is toxic so they try to frame any opposition to their enlightened social policies as culture wars. Meanwhile they call their opponents reactionary. I dont know how you can be both the agressor and the reactionary, but there you go. They should instead embrace it, after all they are the ones trying to make "progress." If America has all the prohlems they say it does then "culture warrior" should have a positive connotation. The word games are either a result of being extremely silo'd in their own world and believing they are *obviously* right or it's just dishonesty. But it appears fewer and fewer people are falling for it.
IIRC ‘social justice warrior’ was originally such a term and it’s a pejorative now.
Frankly I think folks are living in crazy town if they’re claiming the ‘culture war’ is one of an obvious Russia/Ukraine obvious aggressor versus defender type.
There’s plenty of fault, and indeed at times praise or at least understanding to go around on both sides of this one.
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On November 21 2024 08:23 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 08:07 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 07:50 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:
There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. Wrong. There's only one party that even tries to identify and resolve disparities due to race and sex. The other party is feverishly resistant to it. Both parties are engaging with the issue in the way they mean to. It's laughably stupid to pretend that Republicans aren't obsessed with race in the opposite direction. Republicans didn't just introduce a bill targeting the use of bathrooms by the newly-elected trans woman representative because of "the left", my dude. They did it because their culture war demands they be obsessed with it. The left tries to identify it and correct it. The fact that you're blind to discrimination happening in the present day doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't be laughably stupid. For your own good. Dems: We need biological males in women's sports and women's spaces. We need books depicting blowjobs in school libraries. We need to let children know they can be any gender they want. We need to reduce the number of whites and Asians getting into ivy league schools. We need to ensure black students are being taught by black teachers. We need to reduce the numbers of whites and Asians getting into prestigious schools. We need more discrimination and segregation on the basis of race. Conservatives: eh.. let's not do that. Dems: OMG stop being obsessed with the culture wars! Do Republicans play up the culture wars for political gain? Of course. If someone lobs you up a softball you'd be a fool to not hit it out of the park. I just happen to place more blame on the Dems for trying to promote stupid policies than on the Republicans for taking advantage to win easy votes. I've been saying for years that dems are obviously the culture warriors, they just know the label is toxic so they try to frame any opposition to their enlightened social policies as culture wars. Meanwhile they call their opponents reactionary. I dont know how you can be both the agressor and the reactionary, but there you go. They should instead embrace it, after all they are the ones trying to make "progress." If America has all the prohlems they say it does then "culture warrior" should have a positive connotation. The word games are either a result of being extremely silo'd in their own world and believing they are *obviously* right or it's just dishonesty. But it appears fewer and fewer people are falling for it.
Mate. Every other video on youtube is about this or that movie or game or book or anything being too “woke”. It’s an absolute obsession.
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On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area Show nested quote +A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school!
Ah, so that's why they dig up stories about canadian teachers with prosthetic Z-cups, because they don't care and dems made them do it.
I'll keep that in consideration.
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United States10501 Posts
On November 21 2024 10:23 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! Ah, so that's why they dig up stories about canadian teachers with prosthetic Z-cups, because they don't care and dems made them do it. I'll keep that in consideration.
I guess I will reiterate once more. It's not that conservatives don't care. It's that they are the ones responding to the whacky shit on the left. Conservatives wouldn't be talking about men with prosthetic Z-cups teaching their children if it weren't for the fact that people on the left think it's okay for men with prosthetic Z-cups to teach children.
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Northern Ireland25334 Posts
On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area Show nested quote +A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school!
This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues.
This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine
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EPT
