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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine
So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on.
The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically)
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On November 21 2024 10:33 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 10:23 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! Ah, so that's why they dig up stories about canadian teachers with prosthetic Z-cups, because they don't care and dems made them do it. I'll keep that in consideration. I guess I will reiterate once more. It's not that conservatives don't care. It's that they are the ones responding to the whacky shit on the left. Conservatives wouldn't be talking about men with prosthetic Z-cups teaching their children if it weren't for the fact that people on the left think it's okay for men with prosthetic Z-cups to teach children.
Yup, no incentive whatsoever to dig deep and reinforce a culture war so we've got lovely examples of what the whole country will look like if this totally-not-a-bogeyman-we-invented comes to pass!
Yes 'leftist ideology' or whatever you want to call it has holes. So does conservative ideology. Hopefully you understand MY point that trying to pin 'the culture war' on people exploring what 'progressive' means is worthless and partisan. You want to talk about why someone might change the name of a school or sports team because it was racist? Cool. You want to handwave away the fact that it has been done under some all-encompassing tarp of "wokeness bad"? Get the fuck out of here.
There wouldn't be a culture war (at least, it would be less pronounced) if there weren't conservative morons leveraging the culture war to promote conservative ideology. There also wouldn't be a culture war if progressives were born perfect and with higher intelligence that allowed them to not be fucking boneheads sometimes. You can't pretend one of those groups exists and the other doesn't. It's the same shit with abortion, where the actual measured takes aren't what we talk about, it's "Leftist law makes foetal cannibalism legal after 24 weeks pregnancy" vs "Iowa moves to make condom use illegal"
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On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically)
I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry.
I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you.
You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically)
Is the President of the United States not also mainstream?
Who is ‘you’ here?
I literally said up the page that I don’t think Kamala Harris being non-white was a particular factor
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On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy.
I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense.
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Canada11382 Posts
It being full of loyalists has been the status quo of politics since Herodotus. That's the whole fucking point. "Let me get elected so I can give power to my enemies." What the fuck. Criticism of this plain and manifest fact per se by Democrats who suddenly ululate every time Blumpf does any normal human thing, is an act of severe cognitive impairment.
You run a nice motte and bailey.
Nobody is saying Trump should hire anti-Trump people. Nobody thinks it strange that a Republican is hiring Republicans... well MAGA anyways... that generally agrees with Trump's positions.
He hired pro-Republican, pro-Trump guys last time but that wasn't good enough. Remember in 2015 when Trump said "I know the best managers. I know the best deal makers. I know people that will make us so strong. I know guys that are so good."
Those were his guys in the Cabinet last time. Those were his guys... if we are to believe Trump, if he isn't just a complete muppet.
But when did they become 'not pro-Trump'? ...when he pushed them too far. When he wanted loyalty to him over the constitution. When he wanted Esper and Milley to call down the might of the American military on protesters. Where the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff felt in necessary on Veterans day to say that the military was sitting this one out. "We do not take an oath to a king or queen, tyrant or dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the constitution."
So no, we are not criticizing Trump's picks because we think Trump should hire some anti-Trump cabinet ministers to balance things out. We saw what happened to the last round of Trump's own picks and saw that Trump demands a kind of loyalty that breaks the rule of law that causes his attorney general to resign and that causes half Justice Department to threaten to resign in defence of Trump's own picks because Trump's own picks could not in good conscience break their vows to uphold the constitutional limitations of government. And because of that they go from being "the best managers," "the best deal makers" "people that will make us so strong" "guys that are so good" to bad people, so bad, you wouldn't even believe it.
And those men and women who could not be pushed from a principled stance of a limited constitutional republic who were selected by Trump are all gone. The fear then is the next wave will be sycophants and stooges as the only one back is the war-crime suggesting Miller. Not that Trump should hire Trump haters. Don't give me the motte. Defend the bailey.
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On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy.
Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though.
And that is what some democrats in this thread claims.
Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt.
Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump.
It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves.
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On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves.
Some Democrats would rather fantasize about operating in a country that agrees with all their policies than change their policies to adapt to the society they live in.
Race and gender were both definitely factors, but the Democrats could have won, even with Harris, by doing better and being better.
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On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves.
Just a reminder that race and gender are still relevant factors for some people, even if they're not the most important factors for most people. Many voters are influenced by more than one thing, from political agenda to personal identity. Furthermore, "But Obama" and "But Hillary" are never going to be reasonable responses to the fact that racism and sexism still permeate society as a whole, as those two individuals are exceptions, not the norm.
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On November 21 2024 19:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves. Just a reminder that race and gender are still relevant factors for some people, even if they're not the most important factors for most people. Many voters are influenced by more than one thing, from political agenda to personal identity. Furthermore, "But Obama" and "But Hillary" are never going to be reasonable responses to the fact that racism and sexism still permeate society as a whole, as those two individuals are exceptions, not the norm.
I am always seriously shocked when I have conversations with black colleagues from prominent American institutions. The barriers they face are very real and very unjust -- this goes equally for female colleagues, some of the stories are pretty heart-breaking. Trying to level out the playing field so everyone has the same access to opportunities shouldn't really be this contentious.
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On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense.
In a society that has a fairly large amount of racism against black people but very little against white people, do you call it "constantly invoking race" to talk about the racism problem?
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On November 21 2024 19:49 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 19:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Quite generous by your standards.
The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it.
This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either.
People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves. Just a reminder that race and gender are still relevant factors for some people, even if they're not the most important factors for most people. Many voters are influenced by more than one thing, from political agenda to personal identity. Furthermore, "But Obama" and "But Hillary" are never going to be reasonable responses to the fact that racism and sexism still permeate society as a whole, as those two individuals are exceptions, not the norm. I am always seriously shocked when I have conversations with black colleagues from prominent American institutions. The barriers they face are very real and very unjust -- this goes equally for female colleagues, some of the stories are pretty heart-breaking. Trying to level out the playing field so everyone has the same access to opportunities shouldn't really be this contentious.
Nah, I think they are whining. Non-white people and women from Canada's best universities graduate then move to the USA and do just fine. Canadian Nurses are moving to the USA in droves. The working conditions for female nurses in the USA are better than the working conditions for nurses in Canada.
The general level of opportunity for all young people is a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. As bad as it is in the USA.. it is worse in Canada.
I was lucky enough to grow up in the economic epicentre of a 1st world country at the apex of its power. The opportunities I had are not available to all young people, including white people, in the USA and Canada today. Young people lacking life experience and in a naive way often confuse their personal lack of opportunity with racism. Opportunities are down across the board. Its pretty sad to see.
For my part, I try to help the teenagers in my life develop and grow into productive adults that can take advantage of what little opportunities still exist.
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On November 21 2024 22:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 19:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On November 21 2024 19:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:
[quote]
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves. Just a reminder that race and gender are still relevant factors for some people, even if they're not the most important factors for most people. Many voters are influenced by more than one thing, from political agenda to personal identity. Furthermore, "But Obama" and "But Hillary" are never going to be reasonable responses to the fact that racism and sexism still permeate society as a whole, as those two individuals are exceptions, not the norm. I am always seriously shocked when I have conversations with black colleagues from prominent American institutions. The barriers they face are very real and very unjust -- this goes equally for female colleagues, some of the stories are pretty heart-breaking. Trying to level out the playing field so everyone has the same access to opportunities shouldn't really be this contentious. Nah, I think they are whining. Non-white people and women from Canada's best universities graduate then move to the USA and do just fine. Canadian Nurses are moving to the USA in droves. The working conditions for female nurses in the USA are better than the working conditions for nurses in Canada. The general level of opportunity for all young people is a fraction of what it was 15 years ago. As bad as it is in the USA.. it is worse in Canada. I was lucky enough to grow up in the economic epicentre of a 1st world country at the apex of its power. The opportunities I had are not available to all people, including white people, in the USA and Canada today. Young people lacking life experience and in a naive way often confuse their personal lack of opportunity with racism.
You have to be a bit more careful with statements like "doing just fine". You can "do just fine" while facing significant barriers in the sense that you made it work anyway. It doesn't mean that there were no barriers that others didn't have to face.
Here's a story told to me by a black female colleague. She's "doing just fine" at a UK institution with a prestigious fellowship. While she was at Berkeley though, she submitted a project proposal to a US funding agency but it had to go through internal approval first, and this was somehow "delayed". She found out later that a senior member of staff just took her project and submitted it with his own name on it. When confronted, the guy literally said "who are they going to believe? It's your word against mine." She decided America wasn't for her and left pretty much immediately after that.
You can claim that that's not racism since that's just a senior faculty member being an absolute dick, a bad apple if you will. But I have never heard a similar story from any of my white male colleagues and I have plenty others, if not quite as egregious, from people in under-represented groups.
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On November 21 2024 19:49 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 19:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 21 2024 18:11 Timebon3s wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Quite generous by your standards.
The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it.
This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either.
People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) I can definitively say: you. You're the one digging around for fringe examples of dumb shit to get yourself riled up, then you come storming into this thread in a huff basically ready to punch anyone who doesn't do enough for your taste to disavow the crazy thing you got worked up over. And when you actually stop for long enough to see what people actually think, people more often than not don't care to defend the thing you're campaigning against? Because you're citing stuff specifically because it makes you angry. I asked you like 4 times to cite your damn source when you were railing against the fake Z cup thing, and someone else still had to dig up the article instead of you. You just wanted to be angry, and you came in guns blazing expecting everyone to already know wtf you're talking about and expecting them to agree with you. You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. Losing the election because of race isn't a "little thing" though. And that is what some democrats in this thread claims. Despite the fact that Obama won twice. " Oh but that is different!". No it isnt. Obama won and got reelected. Hillary actually got more votes than Trump. It isn't about race or gender, it's about politics. This is what seems so incredibly hard for the left to grasp, because they just can't help themselves. Just a reminder that race and gender are still relevant factors for some people, even if they're not the most important factors for most people. Many voters are influenced by more than one thing, from political agenda to personal identity. Furthermore, "But Obama" and "But Hillary" are never going to be reasonable responses to the fact that racism and sexism still permeate society as a whole, as those two individuals are exceptions, not the norm. I am always seriously shocked when I have conversations with black colleagues from prominent American institutions. The barriers they face are very real and very unjust -- this goes equally for female colleagues, some of the stories are pretty heart-breaking. Trying to level out the playing field so everyone has the same access to opportunities shouldn't really be this contentious.
Unfortunately, I'm no longer shocked. I've seen far too many examples of white people or men denying their systemic privilege even while other races/sexes are being attacked. Or they don't care, because it's not happening to them outside a soda company overcorrecting by saying "stop being so white".
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On November 21 2024 17:05 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +It being full of loyalists has been the status quo of politics since Herodotus. That's the whole fucking point. "Let me get elected so I can give power to my enemies." What the fuck. Criticism of this plain and manifest fact per se by Democrats who suddenly ululate every time Blumpf does any normal human thing, is an act of severe cognitive impairment. You run a nice motte and bailey. Nobody is saying Trump should hire anti-Trump people. Nobody thinks it strange that a Republican is hiring Republicans... well MAGA anyways... that generally agrees with Trump's positions. He hired pro-Republican, pro-Trump guys last time but that wasn't good enough. Remember in 2015 when Trump said "I know the best managers. I know the best deal makers. I know people that will make us so strong. I know guys that are so good." Those were his guys in the Cabinet last time. Those were his guys... if we are to believe Trump, if he isn't just a complete muppet.
Which you would never believe if it weren't useful to attempt this rhetorical zinger.
On November 21 2024 17:05 Falling wrote:
But when did they become 'not pro-Trump'? ...when he pushed them too far. When he wanted loyalty to him over the constitution. When he wanted Esper and Milley to call down the might of the American military on protesters. Where the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff felt in necessary on Veterans day to say that the military was sitting this one out. "We do not take an oath to a king or queen, tyrant or dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the constitution."
Milley was never a Blumpf supporter, he joined the Joint Chiefs under Obama from below. Neither was Tillerson. They're just guys. Looking forward to Milley's courts-martial though.
On November 21 2024 17:05 Falling wrote:
So no, we are not criticizing Trump's picks because we think Trump should hire some anti-Trump cabinet ministers to balance things out. We saw what happened to the last round of Trump's own picks and saw that Trump demands a kind of loyalty that breaks the rule of law that causes his attorney general to resign and that causes half Justice Department to threaten to resign in defence of Trump's own picks because Trump's own picks could not in good conscience break their vows to uphold the constitutional limitations of government. And because of that they go from being "the best managers," "the best deal makers" "people that will make us so strong" "guys that are so good" to bad people, so bad, you wouldn't even believe it.
In the US they're secretaries, not ministers. Hopefully there won't be a need for resignations this time.
On November 21 2024 17:05 Falling wrote:
And those men and women who could not be pushed from a principled stance of a limited constitutional republic who were selected by Trump are all gone. The fear then is the next wave will be sycophants and stooges as the only one back is the war-crime suggesting Miller. Not that Trump should hire Trump haters. Don't give me the motte. Defend the bailey.
Homan and Ratcliffe and McMahon are returnees. Others like Musk and Huckabee and Rubio and Wiles have always been in his orbit at some level or other.
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United States43403 Posts
It amuses me that Blackjack's most outrageous and unjust story, one that he's told many times before as an example of just how fucked up SF is, is literally just a man applying for a job and not being properly considered due to his race. Something that is literally the default for a sizable chunk of the country.
He shares it as if it's some uniquely awful occurrence when in reality it's just normal. The only abnormal thing is that it happened to someone who looks the way that he does.
It's fucked up, but it's not unusual. That's why race is still an issue.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 21 2024 20:22 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. In a society that has a fairly large amount of racism against black people but very little against white people, do you call it "constantly invoking race" to talk about the racism problem?
One can still talk about race, badly, and that does get people’s backs up for sure. I can have some sympathy there, but it’s still inarguably a factor. However that can elicit a reaction in the complete opposite direction intended.
By want of an analogy, some SC2 balance whiners are incredibly annoying, often outright wrong, and often very loud and prominent.
It’s reasonable to conclude that some folks are obsessed with balance, and perhaps don’t know what they’re talking about, and find it irritating. Hell, I find that myself.
One has to be careful not to go full reaction on it and conclude that these people are annoying lunatics, balance is perfect, why do people keep talking about balance?
Or alternatively going, ‘balance isn’t perfect but it’ll get there, stop talking about it.’
The irritation and disagreement, perfectly reasonable, but it the behaviour of an extreme shouldn’t dictate one’s feelings on the actual issue(s) itself, and I think for many it does.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 21 2024 23:25 KwarK wrote:
It amuses me that Blackjack's most outrageous and unjust story, one that he's told many times before as an example of just how fucked up SF is, is literally just a man applying for a job and not being properly considered due to his race. Something that is literally the default for a sizable chunk of the country.
He shares it as if it's some uniquely awful occurrence when in reality it's just normal. The only abnormal thing is that it happened to someone who looks the way that he does.
It's fucked up, but it's not unusual. That's why race is still an issue.
Something we’re quite familiar with over here, is that old adage ‘when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.’
In the Northern Irish context it’s that the overwhelmingly white Protestant/Unionist community no longer has structural advantages over the overwhelmingly white Catholic/Nationalist community, and really doesn’t like that. Well, a decent chunk.
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On November 21 2024 23:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 20:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Quite generous by your standards.
The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it.
This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either.
People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack?
I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense. In a society that has a fairly large amount of racism against black people but very little against white people, do you call it "constantly invoking race" to talk about the racism problem? One can still talk about race, badly, and that does get people’s backs up for sure. I can have some sympathy there, but it’s still inarguably a factor. However that can elicit a reaction in the complete opposite direction intended. By want of an analogy, some SC2 balance whiners are incredibly annoying, often outright wrong, and often very loud and prominent. It’s reasonable to conclude that some folks are obsessed with balance, and perhaps don’t know what they’re talking about, and find it irritating. Hell, I find that myself. One has to be careful not to go full reaction on it and conclude that these people are annoying lunatics, balance is perfect, why do people keep talking about balance? Or alternatively going, ‘balance isn’t perfect but it’ll get there, stop talking about it.’ The irritation and disagreement, perfectly reasonable, but it the behaviour of an extreme shouldn’t dictate one’s feelings on the actual issue(s) itself, and I think for many it does.
I think the conservative backlash should motivate us to talk more, not less, about the prevalence and injustice of racism. The more it's being talked about, the more it enters the general consciousness. That's how major societal change is made over time.
I myself used to be on the fence regarding the idea that Western societies such as the US are still very racist against minorities. That changed over time as I saw more and more examples of it, while seeing very few examples of anti-white racism.
Right-wingers want us to shut up. That's why we won't shut up, instead we talk more. And when they cry about us talking more, we talk even more. We just keep talking, we dominate the discourse more and more over time until society changes.
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On November 21 2024 16:28 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 11:23 NewSunshine wrote:On November 21 2024 10:56 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 10:37 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 09:59 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 09:39 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 21 2024 08:52 BlackJack wrote:On November 21 2024 08:19 WombaT wrote:On November 21 2024 07:46 KwarK wrote:On November 21 2024 07:34 BlackJack wrote:There's only one party obsessed with race and sex. It's the one that makes "white fragility" and "How to be an antiracist baby" into bestsellers. The one that constantly blames the election loss on race and gender even though this is the first time a woman or POC didn't get the most votes while at the top of the ticket. The one's constantly trying to prop up DEI or present discrimination to fix past discrimination. The problem with your listing of Trump's grievances is that a lot of them are baked in truth. The iconic American company Coca-Cola had a training session where they tried to teach their staff to "be less white." Being less white means, according to the training session, to be "less ignorant" and "less oppressive." It's not conservatives pushing this nonsense. But if they complain about it somehow they are the ones identity warrior-ing? Are you sure it's not the other way around? Of course it is. That's the entire point. It's the favorite play in the Dem playbook. Do some crazy shit and then call conservatives whatever -ism if they opposite it. If they even pretend to try to meet you in the middle you just take another giant step to the left so you can keep slinging mud. I agree with literally none of this. Quite generous by your standards. The whole genesis of the ‘Culture WarTM’ is folks looking at things and either concluding that prejudice is largely non-existent, or does but attempting to redress it even through asinine measures is somehow more egregious than courting it. This doesn’t preclude someone like me looking at a story like that and thinking it’s asinine either. People are willing to meet in the middle, or even a moderated version of what they believe but do you even try to do that BlackJack? I already explained why it’s pointless to “meet in the middle.” There’s never going to be agreement. If you’re a progressive that agrees with conservatives then you’re not really a progressive, are you? Wait, so your argument is that progressives will try be progressive, and conservatives will stop that... and from that information it's clearly the progressives that give more fucks about sex and race because of the ideas they push, and conservatives don't care at all? That obviously doesn't hold. It wouldn't be a 'war' if one side didn't give a fuck about the issues presented. It's a war BECAUSE both sides give a fuck about the issues presented. I didn't say conservatives are not participants in the culture war. I said they are mostly responding to the whacky shit from the left. I also said it's people on the left that are more obsessed with race. Here's one of my favorites that happened shortly after I moved to the SF Bay Area A gay dad volunteers for one of eight open slots on a parent committee that advises the school board. All of the 10 current members are straight moms. Three are white. Three are Latina. Two are Black. One is Tongan. They all want the dad to join them.
The seven school board members talk for two hours about whether the dad brings enough diversity. Yes, he’d be the only man. And the only LGBTQ representative. But he’d be the fourth white person in a district where 15% of students are white.
The gay dad never utters a single word. The board members do not ask the dad a single question before declining to approve him for the committee. They say they’ll consider allowing him to volunteer if he comes back with a slate of more diverse candidates, ideally including an Arab parent, a Native American parent, a Vietnamese parent and a Chinese parent who doesn’t speak English. It's like a sketch from Portlandia or South Park. The title of this article was "San Francisco’s school board is wasting time on ridiculous debates as students remain home." Because this happened when schools were still locked down from COVID. Apparently getting kids back into school was not high on the priority list. Instead they were too busy blocking white people from serving on parent committee's and trying to rename all of their schools because they were all racist or something like that. But then again everything is racist. Math is racist. Standardized testing is racist. According to the Chicago teacher's union, the push to reopen schools during COVID was rooted in sexism, racism, and misogyny. To which conservatives replied, no it's rooted into wanting to provide children with an education. Damn those culture-warrior conservatives inflicting racism and sexism on people by wanting children to attend school! This is the culture war in a nutshell. Ignore mainstream opinion, and indeed rationales for certain positions, find a few egregious examples of some org somewhere or an individual doing something, then claim that’s it’s representative and thus worth railing against to the detriment of other issues. This doesn’t preclude valid critique of more mainstream, overarching ideas but one has to engage with the actual ideas rather than a caricature of them fed through the outrage machine So the Ivy League schools keeping standardized testing as optional in the wake of the post-George floyd racial justice movements is some fringe thing? These are some of the top universities in the whole world and I'm certain you've heard of them. Coca-Cola training it's staff to "be less white" is also fringe? Is Coca-cola not "mainstream" enough? Because I'm pretty sure I can go into almost any restaurant in the world and order one. Are the school boards of Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Portald etc fringe organizations? Those are some pretty well known cities. Are the Academy Awards setting racial quotas for movies to be considered for an Oscar another fringe example? The Oscars are pretty mainstream as well, no? Is the NCAA another fringe organization when the allowed a biological male to dominate women's swimming races? I'm sure you've heard of the NCAA as well. The list goes on and on... and on. The difference is I can give concrete examples from mainstream organizations endlessly and your gripe is with the unnamed Republicans that won't vote for a black woman. I have the Ivy League, Coca-Cola, the Oscars, the NCAA and you have Nick Fuentes, QAnon and MTG. Tell me who is more obsessed with the fringe. (this is more directed at the thread than you specifically) You're the one getting worked up over every little thing you seem to find. And by the measure of this thread, you're also by far the most obsessed with race. You're always on the ready to jump on anyone for insinuating that any issue under the sun might possibly involve the invocation of race as a factor and, by golly, are you ready to jump down their throats for it. It's you, buddy. I'm obsessed with race because I respond to the people constantly invoking race. Makes sense.
You get to choose your battles. Not me. If you can't look at the context surrounding discussions of Harris's race and gender, and can't understand why people are talking about it at all, I honestly can't help you. We've had 1 president in this country's entire history that isn't a white man, and we've had 0 women in the office, period. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't understand why the whole race, including the aftermath, is being discussed in light of the fact that Kamala Harris was the first woman of color to run for President. You insist that none of that matters, well there's plenty to disagree with that. Open your eyes. It's called being "woke" for a reason, despite all the right-wing venom surrounding the term, it has a meaning.
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