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From what I can gather, China forced MS to give them their own custom version of windows that basically doesn't phone home at all, plus, they have their own cloud services, which is what I'm talking about when I mention Amazon, not the e-commerce platform but AWS.
Cloud services are the big one, the US companies are making a killing hosting, selling and using all of the data they are charging us to host, reducing this reliance can only be a good thing and I don't really see an argument against that.
Jailbroken Apple devices have been a thing since iPhones were a thing and China has a very healthy smartphone ecosystem, I don't think that Apple has anywhere as close as a firm grip on them technologically as you are trying to imply.
In any case, compared to EU, China is very much ready and able to stop using all of this if need be.
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If Amazon stopped aws today and all the American competitors withdrew also, my company would not notice. Cloud services are the buzzword for more then s decade but as long as you don't have a startup or an extremely generic need, most managers come into the company, waste a ton of money for the process to get all services into the cloud and along the way realize that it's neither easy nor cheap. Docker! Agile! Devops! Am I already getting a million as bonus?
Important software was run by companies before cloud was a thing and they have legacy data centers that cannot simply be scrapped. Online services, apps and all that end customer stuff might look different but honestly data centers in the EU work and could be extended. The bigger problem would probably getting all the hardware without American companies.
In short, of course suddenly losing all services from the us would be an incredible shock for the European consumer market. But we survived before without cell phones. As long as we had the dedication and no easy way back, we would overcome that. But it certainly would not be pretty.
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It‘s not like US cloud services can‘t be replaced by competitors in for example a bunch of Asian countries I could think of…
At this point the customer can choose which country they’d rather want to steal and use their data for commercial purposes.
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Tbf, if Google, Amazon, MS and even IBM pulled their cloud services from Europe, the datacenters would still be there. The data would still be there. Someone would take them over. All manner of proprietary services would end, obviously. But most are either open source or have open source alternatives, which wouldn't be hard to turn into managed services. It wouldn't be super easy or fast, and a bunch of EU companies would struggle or maybe go bankrupt. But it wouldn't be great for those US companies either: Europe is a huge market.
Unsurprisingly if two of the three largest economic blocks in the world start a trade war with each other, the world economy will go boom, hurting everybody.
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I dont think people understand fallout occurring in this case. Multinational corporations suddenly cant actually communicate, because a lot of those use google or Microsoft, no more chat no more team speak, no more emails because most of them are either gmail or outlook, how do you even communicate new procedures? Add to this people at large, suddenly loosing emails, youtube, app stores, FB, list goes on...
It is easy to someone in IT sector to say "We will switch to Linux" meanwhile call centers are dead, files on gdrive are gone and non IT companies are pretty much done.
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Have you actually worked in IT? There is no month in my company that not someone wants to switch some tool for another. Of course those switches are never super easy and fast but if they have to, suddenly those changes can happen very quickly. Of course the fallout from microsoft somehow disabling all licenses would be enormous. Linux exists but the rollout to get Linux on each laptop without being allowed to start the OS on those laptops would be enormous because offline support has been dialed down, and then you have a user base that has to look at tutorials for every step. But basically every tool has multiple somewhat equivalent open source alternatives and as long as they can be distributed within several weeks work will continue. It's really like you are forgetting that just 25 years ago, the internet was something entirely different and people used land lines.
And let's talk for a second about the sceanrio here.
1) The EU announces it will tax internet services that have so far never been taxed in the EU before. Microsoft and google, to use as examples, stand to lose let's say 15% of their profits.
2) Google and Microsoft announce that they will leave the EU if that happens.
3) The EU does it anyway.
4) Google and Microsoft completely disable all their internet services for the EU.
5) Chaos.
So now you are saying, that the EU will now come crawling back, bolish the tax and ask Google and Microsoft to come back pretty please.
Fine.
How many people do you think will immediately and forever move to other platforms then those they just lost temporarily in the EU? Like, just out of fucking spite, out of self preservation, out of having found a better tool?
Do you really think a terroristic attack by companies on this scale would not immensely backfire for companies that are entirely driven by greed? That enjoy a near monopoly as long as they just let people live in a world where it is unthinkable that there are actual alternatives, because someone would have to put soooome effort in to switch?
I'd say 5 years after this noone in the EU is using any services by Google and Microsoft anymore.
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On August 02 2025 16:02 Broetchenholer wrote:
Have you actually worked in IT? There is no month in my company that not someone wants to switch some tool for another. Of course those switches are never super easy and fast but if they have to, suddenly those changes can happen very quickly. Of course the fallout from microsoft somehow disabling all licenses would be enormous. Linux exists but the rollout to get Linux on each laptop without being allowed to start the OS on those laptops would be enormous because offline support has been dialed down, and then you have a user base that has to look at tutorials for every step. But basically every tool has multiple somewhat equivalent open source alternatives and as long as they can be distributed within several weeks work will continue. It's really like you are forgetting that just 25 years ago, the internet was something entirely different and people used land lines.
And let's talk for a second about the sceanrio here.
1) The EU announces it will tax internet services that have so far never been taxed in the EU before. Microsoft and google, to use as examples, stand to lose let's say 15% of their profits.
2) Google and Microsoft announce that they will leave the EU if that happens.
3) The EU does it anyway.
4) Google and Microsoft completely disable all their internet services for the EU.
5) Chaos.
So now you are saying, that the EU will now come crawling back, bolish the tax and ask Google and Microsoft to come back pretty please.
Fine.
How many people do you think will immediately and forever move to other platforms then those they just lost temporarily in the EU? Like, just out of fucking spite, out of self preservation, out of having found a better tool?
Do you really think a terroristic attack by companies on this scale would not immensely backfire for companies that are entirely driven by greed? That enjoy a near monopoly as long as they just let people live in a world where it is unthinkable that there are actual alternatives, because someone would have to put soooome effort in to switch?
I'd say 5 years after this noone in the EU is using any services by Google and Microsoft anymore.
To expand on what you said, the EU wouldn't introduce the tax overnight. There would be a period of weeks/months before the law comes into effect. There are two possible scenarios in that case: (A) the American corporations retaliate immediately after the tax is passed, burning their bridges, or (B) they react only after the tax comes into effect. In the first case, there would be no coming back. In the second case, European companies/governments would have a substantial transition period to prepare for any retaliation.
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So with the head of the bureau of labor statistics being fired for reporting the real job numbers rather then the fake ones previous estimated (May’s estimated 144,000 net gain was revised down by 125,000 to 19,000; and June’s preliminary tally of 147,000 was slashed by 133,000 to 14,000)
How are we feeling about that projected 3% growth being anywhere near accurate?...
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On August 02 2025 18:48 Gorsameth wrote:
So with the head of the bureau of labor statistics being fired for reporting the real job numbers rather then the fake ones previous estimated (May’s estimated 144,000 net gain was revised down by 125,000 to 19,000; and June’s preliminary tally of 147,000 was slashed by 133,000 to 14,000)
How are we feeling about that projected 3% growth being anywhere near accurate?...
funnily enough, it just seems an escalation to what has already been going on.
How reliable is the government's economic data? Under Trump, there are real concerns - NPR in march 2025.
Every month, the federal government serves up a steady diet of economic reports on everything from the price of groceries to the unemployment rate. These reports are closely followed: They can move markets — and the president's approval rating.
Businesses and investors put a lot of stock in the numbers, which are rigorously vetted and free from political spin.
Now the Trump administration is calling that trust into question.
he government recently disbanded two outside advisory committees that used to consult on the numbers, offering suggestions on ways to improve the reliability of the government data.
At the same time, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick has suggested changing the way the broadest measure of the economy — gross domestic product — is calculated.
Those moves are raising concerns about whether economic data could be manipulated for political or other purposes.
Among those raising the alarm is Erica Groshen. She's one of the outside experts who received a terse email last week saying her services were no longer needed, because the committee she'd served on — the Federal Economic Statistics Advisory Committee — had been folded.
Groshen cares deeply about the reliability of government data, having previously overseen the number crunching as commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
"Statistical agencies live and die by trust," she says. "If the numbers aren't trustworthy, people won't use them to make important decisions, and then you might as well not publish them."
I mean they might as well try to control the message - on how or why and especially how much people make with their money and labor...
what's one more for these criminally insane, spoiled sleazebags? only it's about as pointless as pissing against the wind... and the damage will be consequential. just as in all other areas where these children run rampant breaking stuff they will dearly miss once it is gone.
can we now openly say the US has reached the Roman decadence phase of empire?
"We are proud to announce that the construction of the new White House ballroom will begin. For 150 years, presidents, administrations and White House staff have longed for a large event space on the White House complex that can hold substantially more guests than currently allowed," she told reporters.
how have they coped all those years without it? laughing stock of the world!? imagine how easily the US would have won the cold war were that Ball room + Trump a thing in the WH.
just as easily as when Trump did a thing with tariffs - and totally won and others paid for it. and ez peace in Ukraine and with Russia. and released the Epstein files... where he totally is not in them... and if he is it was a plant by Obama. and Hillary. and sleepy Joe.
and The FBI Redacted Trump’s Name in the Epstein Files - a hoax like that whole Epstein hoax, believe me people.
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On August 02 2025 18:48 Gorsameth wrote:
So with the head of the bureau of labor statistics being fired for reporting the real job numbers rather then the fake ones previous estimated (May’s estimated 144,000 net gain was revised down by 125,000 to 19,000; and June’s preliminary tally of 147,000 was slashed by 133,000 to 14,000)
How are we feeling about that projected 3% growth being anywhere near accurate?...
That was a comic book villain tier move from him lol.
It‘s like smashing the monitor because the pc isn‘t working.
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Last I'll say off topic (EU digital infrastructure): if we're smart we've already set up a task force to estimate the timeline and to get a rough architecture of implementations that are needed. Also already make some fundamental stuff.
Software and hardware is not my specialty so I don't know if we'd need an independent os, or if we could all use Linux based stuff, but I guess we have some untangling to do at least. Don't know how difficult that would be honestly. How jaded programmers will be because of this tabula rasa.
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EPT
