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Gm did not outsource most design and r&d to china. Im sure they have joint ventures in China because China forces them to do that, but thats not production and r&d for cars world wide. They have a huge tech center in michigan....
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Your GM story is basicly true for all german manufacturers as well.
It's just the way it goes.
They traded 10 good years in china, for all their technology for all production learnings from 100 years.
Now Chinese customers quickly and boldly move on to chinese brands.. since in EVs there isn't much of a technology gap, and the prestige of owning a domestic vehicle suddenly outweights the prestige of the german brands.
Market Access to China was always tied to Joint-Ventures that demanded technology sharing.
BMW announced to have an all chinese developed, styled and produced "Neue Klasse" EV.
All ADASystems will be also developed domesticly in PRC - to appeal to the chinese market more.
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For the last ten years I have worked for a major supplier to automotive industry. In 2016 I have been sent to China for some QA stuff as part of contract with a premium german brand. So I have witneesed this knowledge handover with my own eyes. It was obvious, already then, that some automakers are providing China with a rope and recipe for a noose on which they will be hunged. I (and most people in my company) couldnt belive it... And yet it happened...
Now, some years later we are gathering the fruits of the genius thought to sell generations of manufacturing knowledge for a decade of higher sales.
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Funny enough when you reward CEO's for short term profit and hand them golden parachutes when they fuck you over that's what happens...
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Big corpos don't really seem to have long term visions for things. At least mine doesn't. I wonder how these geniuses at the top all operate honestly, or if it's also just a crab in the bucket mentality but with the one trick that this particular crab can blow smoke up all the others' asses.
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Haven‘t we reached saturation in innovation yet ? At some point earth is stuffed and all we do is chase some new gadget which works as long fossils are available. Eventually those will run out and we return to medieval tier economics.
China has a ton of cheap labour and every politician in the west is only interested in raising or keeping the current standard of living while they are in charge.
When do we move from capitalism to an economy that rewards its participants for shrinking their consumption ?
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On August 01 2025 21:21 Uldridge wrote:
Big corpos don't really seem to have long term visions for things. At least mine doesn't. I wonder how these geniuses at the top all operate honestly, or if it's also just a crab in the bucket mentality but with the one trick that this particular crab can blow smoke up all the others' asses. They have short term incentives for bonuses and apparently the average CEO tenure is only about 7 years.
Why would they have long term vision?
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That's literally been my hypothesis for a while now. Don't grow, but entrench and become a stable force for your market. Export your knowledge and extend soft power just like a country/continent does. For instance, my facility is like a smaller village working inside of a multinational city.
Why do we need to go even harder at this point in time, in the West at least? Just chill and steady state bro.
On August 01 2025 21:29 Gorsameth wrote:They have short term incentives for bonuses and apparently the average CEO tenure is only about 7 years.
Why would they have long term vision?
Because they care for the company and their employees? + Show Spoiler +
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On August 01 2025 21:26 Vivax wrote:
Haven‘t we reached saturation in innovation yet ? At some point earth is stuffed and all we do is chase some new gadget which works as long fossils are available. Eventually those will run out and we return to medieval tier economics.
China has a ton of cheap labour and every politician in the west is only interested in raising or keeping the current standard of living while they are in charge.
When do we move from capitalism to an economy that rewards its participants for shrinking their consumption ?
When/if global economy collapses. It should be ovious to most people that there is no new technology coming that just creates utopia and allows for limitless consumption. Every thing points to a future that cannot see worldwide consumption and consumerism on the scale of Europe/USA. Yet if you talk to any one about what they would scale back to help solve the issue, the only thing people are willing to do is tell other people to comsume less. Vegans will call for the rest of the world to not kill animals, europeans will loathe china for trying to have the same qol as europe, and hate on foreigners to try what they are having.
Without public support no politician will do changes because of course they wont. And then corporate greed isn't even included yet.
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On August 01 2025 22:07 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 21:26 Vivax wrote:
Haven‘t we reached saturation in innovation yet ? At some point earth is stuffed and all we do is chase some new gadget which works as long fossils are available. Eventually those will run out and we return to medieval tier economics.
China has a ton of cheap labour and every politician in the west is only interested in raising or keeping the current standard of living while they are in charge.
When do we move from capitalism to an economy that rewards its participants for shrinking their consumption ? When/if global economy collapses. It should be ovious to most people that there is no new technology coming that just creates utopia and allows for limitless consumption. Every thing points to a future that cannot see worldwide consumption and consumerism on the scale of Europe/USA. Yet if you talk to any one about what they would scale back to help solve the issue, the only thing people are willing to do is tell other people to comsume less. Vegans will call for the rest of the world to not kill animals, europeans will loathe china for trying to have the same qol as europe, and hate on foreigners to try what they are having. Without public support no politician will do changes because of course they wont. And then corporate greed isn't even included yet.
If the economy collapses a bunch of people who have more than others buy up the things that people who have less dump on the market. You get a bunch of monopolies that governments attempt to dismantle to maintain an artificial model of competition that keeps people employed and busy while others who own it all waste money on gigantic wasteful nonsense the busy ones work for.
Managing your possessions is a funny way of saying it‘s supposed to be a job when you‘re filthy rich. And you can still delegate that assignment. Most wealth comes from someone in your family who put in the effort before you did, yet it is often flaunted as a personal achievement and gives undeserved status.
We are living in a model of parallel societies that already resembles the medieval societal structure.
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On August 01 2025 09:55 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 00:50 Jankisa wrote:I specified the cold turkey scenario being in a very specific case where EU and US are basically in a severing ties situation, this, obviously, is neither likely or going to happen. I also noted that this is something to be used as leverage, and in order for that leverage to be realistic EU should have already taken steps to move in to this direction, so far, we mostly have citizen incentives, again, mostly because our politicians are cowards who are afraid to anger daddy Trump. As others said, putting a real, enforced tax on these services would increase revenue, make things actually equitable and more fair and allow EU companies to start filling the gaps and provide real competition to AWS, Azure etc. where they are now at severe disadvantage not only because of the economies of scale those companies enjoy but also the way that these companies skirt taxes. I'm pretty sure that if Meta had to pay a tax on selling our data from WhatsApp or using it for AI training and reacted by putting adds or requiring a subscription services like Viber, Telegram and Signal would explode in popularity, new ones would also appear, it's a net positive and I doubt that people would have a problem with switching. Right now most people use them because it's convenient and everyone is on them. One of the reasons I re-activated my account here was the Reddit boycott over the api changes, I went back but I'm posting and using it way less, I'm sure many would say goodbye to services like that if they tried to strongarm users or make them pay very quickly, especially if there are viable alternatives. And there are, yes, AWS, Google cloud and Azure are, in most use cases simply cheaper, more efficient and developed then anything you can do with European cloud companies, but it's not a huge leap, and if they were actually taxed properly that competitive advantage would go away and we'd get both more sovereignty over our data and infrastructure and a boost to our economies. There are alternatives to everything, there are cities and municipalities in Europe that moved away from the Microsoft stack and started using Open Source alternatives, it is possible, the other way of doing things is just more convenient, until it isn't. On July 31 2025 23:42 Razyda wrote:On July 31 2025 21:33 Jankisa wrote:
The point of taxing digital services that come from the EU is that it's not hindering EU digital transformation, it's enabling us to do it in a healthy way where we aren't dependant on US companies and the whims of the US politics.
Microsoft just recently admitted that the data they keep in EU is subject to US laws, and not really private. Let's say that the next thing Trump wants form EU is for Denmark to cede Greenland to them, EU says no, Denmark says no and Trump says to Microsoft, Google and Amazon cut them off.
Huge swaths (92 %) of digital infrastructure in Europe is fucked. There are no backups, because they are in S3 on Amazon. Toll roads stop working because they are running through Azure kubernetes services. Spotify is instantly out of business. Millions of people have to move from WhatsApp to Viber, Signal and Telegram. All of these companies have to invest in European infrastructure in order to regain our digital sovereignty. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are created, huge investments need to happen. There is a period of suffering, but Europe comes out stronger on the other side.
This is why playing hardball with the US makes sense, this, given that US has shown to be an extremely unreliable partner needs to happen anyway, if they used it as a bargaining chip the things that could of happened are either Trump caves, we forget about tariffs and we continue on our merry way, or he says OK, tariffs are now 30 % and shoots himself in the chest as many have noted before.
People are forgetting that Europe is the biggest consumer market in the world, all of these companies are making immense wealth doing business with Europe. Trump is not immune to pressure, but someone needs to be willing to apply it. You literally listed reasons why EU cant play hardball, and then said that playing hardball makes sense. When it comes to digital services EU cant play hardball because, as of now, they dont have the ball, they not even on the field, they are in the viewers seats. What do you think would happen if Meta, Apple, Alphabet, Amazon withdraw from EU? Essentially you would have hordes of addicted zombies tearing apart government buildings in quest for daily dose of screen dopamine. Those companies never even attempted to move away from Russia after the invasion, and there were a lot of very strong incentives to do that, why do you think Trump could make them do that? Making these companies slightly less profitable by taxing them and giving that money to European investments is a net positive, and we aren't even willing to use it as leverage, for what reason, I don't know, I can speculate and say it would likely end up back at "money talks" and politicians are corrupt assholes. What you are missing is that corporations can count, and are rather willing to test/exercise power they have. What you are talking about is situation where EU has viable alternative for those services, which is widely known (because you wont be able to google it anymore). And yes it would be wildly beneficial for those companies to loose market for 2 months ( I am being overgenerous here) than agree for, lets say, 20% tax.
There are no alternatives to google? Really, this is your analysis and reaction to everything I wrote?
I can, without an issue move away from every single one of those companies and never look back, it would be annoying, yes, the quality of navigation both online and in my car, the quality of my phone and the way it integrates with the rest of my technology stack would go down, but I could do all of that and save a lot on licensing and cost them in other ways, such as them not being able to sell my data.
I understand that I am technologically a bit more advanced then an average Joe, but if push comes to shove all of this shit would keep working, there are Linux distributions that for an average user offer basically the same user experience as Windows, most of the web and app infrastructure already runs on Linux, so we are good there, servers are servers and getting a private cloud is expensive but it's very much possible, I worked in few of such datacenters.
Technology is not magic, Europeans are not morons, it would be painful, annoying and slower for a while, but after that it would be cheaper and we'd have the keys to our digital kingdoms, which, in the world of AI where data is king is basically a national security concern. Unfortunately, worms like Ursula don't really give a fuck about that.
Why would they lose the market for 2 months? If the divorce happened, it would be gradual and after 3-4 years they would lose all of their revenue from the whole of the Eurozone, the biggest customer market in the world. The only reason why they can throw their weight around is because they have those politicians in their pockets, one way or another.
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I think 3-4 years is a VERY optimistic estimate for such a gargantuan switch.
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I agree, but, to be honest, let's say Trump completely loses his marbles and decides to attack Mexico, Canada, Panama or Greenland (which wouldn't be insane because he expressed imperialistic intentions towards those) and Europeans HAD to get this done, I think 3-4 years is something that is definitely doable, painful, but doable.
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On August 01 2025 22:43 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 09:55 Razyda wrote:On August 01 2025 00:50 Jankisa wrote:I specified the cold turkey scenario being in a very specific case where EU and US are basically in a severing ties situation, this, obviously, is neither likely or going to happen. I also noted that this is something to be used as leverage, and in order for that leverage to be realistic EU should have already taken steps to move in to this direction, so far, we mostly have citizen incentives, again, mostly because our politicians are cowards who are afraid to anger daddy Trump. As others said, putting a real, enforced tax on these services would increase revenue, make things actually equitable and more fair and allow EU companies to start filling the gaps and provide real competition to AWS, Azure etc. where they are now at severe disadvantage not only because of the economies of scale those companies enjoy but also the way that these companies skirt taxes. I'm pretty sure that if Meta had to pay a tax on selling our data from WhatsApp or using it for AI training and reacted by putting adds or requiring a subscription services like Viber, Telegram and Signal would explode in popularity, new ones would also appear, it's a net positive and I doubt that people would have a problem with switching. Right now most people use them because it's convenient and everyone is on them. One of the reasons I re-activated my account here was the Reddit boycott over the api changes, I went back but I'm posting and using it way less, I'm sure many would say goodbye to services like that if they tried to strongarm users or make them pay very quickly, especially if there are viable alternatives. And there are, yes, AWS, Google cloud and Azure are, in most use cases simply cheaper, more efficient and developed then anything you can do with European cloud companies, but it's not a huge leap, and if they were actually taxed properly that competitive advantage would go away and we'd get both more sovereignty over our data and infrastructure and a boost to our economies. There are alternatives to everything, there are cities and municipalities in Europe that moved away from the Microsoft stack and started using Open Source alternatives, it is possible, the other way of doing things is just more convenient, until it isn't. On July 31 2025 23:42 Razyda wrote:On July 31 2025 21:33 Jankisa wrote:
The point of taxing digital services that come from the EU is that it's not hindering EU digital transformation, it's enabling us to do it in a healthy way where we aren't dependant on US companies and the whims of the US politics.
Microsoft just recently admitted that the data they keep in EU is subject to US laws, and not really private. Let's say that the next thing Trump wants form EU is for Denmark to cede Greenland to them, EU says no, Denmark says no and Trump says to Microsoft, Google and Amazon cut them off.
Huge swaths (92 %) of digital infrastructure in Europe is fucked. There are no backups, because they are in S3 on Amazon. Toll roads stop working because they are running through Azure kubernetes services. Spotify is instantly out of business. Millions of people have to move from WhatsApp to Viber, Signal and Telegram. All of these companies have to invest in European infrastructure in order to regain our digital sovereignty. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are created, huge investments need to happen. There is a period of suffering, but Europe comes out stronger on the other side.
This is why playing hardball with the US makes sense, this, given that US has shown to be an extremely unreliable partner needs to happen anyway, if they used it as a bargaining chip the things that could of happened are either Trump caves, we forget about tariffs and we continue on our merry way, or he says OK, tariffs are now 30 % and shoots himself in the chest as many have noted before.
People are forgetting that Europe is the biggest consumer market in the world, all of these companies are making immense wealth doing business with Europe. Trump is not immune to pressure, but someone needs to be willing to apply it. You literally listed reasons why EU cant play hardball, and then said that playing hardball makes sense. When it comes to digital services EU cant play hardball because, as of now, they dont have the ball, they not even on the field, they are in the viewers seats. What do you think would happen if Meta, Apple, Alphabet, Amazon withdraw from EU? Essentially you would have hordes of addicted zombies tearing apart government buildings in quest for daily dose of screen dopamine. Those companies never even attempted to move away from Russia after the invasion, and there were a lot of very strong incentives to do that, why do you think Trump could make them do that? Making these companies slightly less profitable by taxing them and giving that money to European investments is a net positive, and we aren't even willing to use it as leverage, for what reason, I don't know, I can speculate and say it would likely end up back at "money talks" and politicians are corrupt assholes. What you are missing is that corporations can count, and are rather willing to test/exercise power they have. What you are talking about is situation where EU has viable alternative for those services, which is widely known (because you wont be able to google it anymore). And yes it would be wildly beneficial for those companies to loose market for 2 months ( I am being overgenerous here) than agree for, lets say, 20% tax. There are no alternatives to google? Really, this is your analysis and reaction to everything I wrote? I can, without an issue move away from every single one of those companies and never look back, it would be annoying, yes, the quality of navigation both online and in my car, the quality of my phone and the way it integrates with the rest of my technology stack would go down, but I could do all of that and save a lot on licensing and cost them in other ways, such as them not being able to sell my data. I understand that I am technologically a bit more advanced then an average Joe, but if push comes to shove all of this shit would keep working, there are Linux distributions that for an average user offer basically the same user experience as Windows, most of the web and app infrastructure already runs on Linux, so we are good there, servers are servers and getting a private cloud is expensive but it's very much possible, I worked in few of such datacenters. Technology is not magic, Europeans are not morons, it would be painful, annoying and slower for a while, but after that it would be cheaper and we'd have the keys to our digital kingdoms, which, in the world of AI where data is king is basically a national security concern. Unfortunately, worms like Ursula don't really give a fuck about that. Why would they lose the market for 2 months? If the divorce happened, it would be gradual and after 3-4 years they would lose all of their revenue from the whole of the Eurozone, the biggest customer market in the world. The only reason why they can throw their weight around is because they have those politicians in their pockets, one way or another.
I dont think you understand scale of digitalization today. Most companies now run windows (some mac), what, you think they would replace it overnight? Transitioning in 3-4 years may happen if they focus on it in current environment, not if it has to be done basically from scratch. I mean average person wouldn't even have email anymore. I said 2 months because that what it would took EU to crawl at their feet begging to come back, and again 2 months is very generous estimate. Am I happy that few companies have a power to bring down EU on a whim? No, obviously, but EU made its bed, and doesnt seem actively look for remedy on this dependance.
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On August 01 2025 23:53 Jankisa wrote:
I agree, but, to be honest, let's say Trump completely loses his marbles and decides to attack Mexico, Canada, Panama or Greenland (which wouldn't be insane because he expressed imperialistic intentions towards those) and Europeans HAD to get this done, I think 3-4 years is something that is definitely doable, painful, but doable.
I think that‘s very unlikely.
Maybe he was just testing the waters, that would be exceptionally hard to justify and very risky.
And for what, so his billionaire clientele can establish their own city states with their own set of laws ?
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On August 01 2025 20:57 Gorsameth wrote:
Funny enough when you reward CEO's for short term profit and hand them golden parachutes when they fuck you over that's what happens...
God bless the MBA.
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I won't engage in this hypothetical, I just don't have the background to make any type of estimate here.
The entire global protectionist trend that's developing seems so bizarre to me. I understand self sufficiency with the deeper idea of shortening your chain so that it's not as straining for the entire planet, but to weaponize that... I'm so appalled by that. Pearl clutching in a globally entangled economy seems so stupid. The only real hegemons are China and US and what if they trade places. Who fucking cares. Who the fuck is going to bat an eyelash if we go from a petrodollar to a voltyuan. Markets gonna market.
However, protectionism is a huge threat to all that so this just becausr the old man is yelling and making a fuss that it's not the good old times. Guess what, we almost have fusion and weird BMI cyborg shit, get over it. Sorry for my rant.
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On August 02 2025 00:00 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 22:43 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 09:55 Razyda wrote:On August 01 2025 00:50 Jankisa wrote:I specified the cold turkey scenario being in a very specific case where EU and US are basically in a severing ties situation, this, obviously, is neither likely or going to happen. I also noted that this is something to be used as leverage, and in order for that leverage to be realistic EU should have already taken steps to move in to this direction, so far, we mostly have citizen incentives, again, mostly because our politicians are cowards who are afraid to anger daddy Trump. As others said, putting a real, enforced tax on these services would increase revenue, make things actually equitable and more fair and allow EU companies to start filling the gaps and provide real competition to AWS, Azure etc. where they are now at severe disadvantage not only because of the economies of scale those companies enjoy but also the way that these companies skirt taxes. I'm pretty sure that if Meta had to pay a tax on selling our data from WhatsApp or using it for AI training and reacted by putting adds or requiring a subscription services like Viber, Telegram and Signal would explode in popularity, new ones would also appear, it's a net positive and I doubt that people would have a problem with switching. Right now most people use them because it's convenient and everyone is on them. One of the reasons I re-activated my account here was the Reddit boycott over the api changes, I went back but I'm posting and using it way less, I'm sure many would say goodbye to services like that if they tried to strongarm users or make them pay very quickly, especially if there are viable alternatives. And there are, yes, AWS, Google cloud and Azure are, in most use cases simply cheaper, more efficient and developed then anything you can do with European cloud companies, but it's not a huge leap, and if they were actually taxed properly that competitive advantage would go away and we'd get both more sovereignty over our data and infrastructure and a boost to our economies. There are alternatives to everything, there are cities and municipalities in Europe that moved away from the Microsoft stack and started using Open Source alternatives, it is possible, the other way of doing things is just more convenient, until it isn't. On July 31 2025 23:42 Razyda wrote:On July 31 2025 21:33 Jankisa wrote:
The point of taxing digital services that come from the EU is that it's not hindering EU digital transformation, it's enabling us to do it in a healthy way where we aren't dependant on US companies and the whims of the US politics.
Microsoft just recently admitted that the data they keep in EU is subject to US laws, and not really private. Let's say that the next thing Trump wants form EU is for Denmark to cede Greenland to them, EU says no, Denmark says no and Trump says to Microsoft, Google and Amazon cut them off.
Huge swaths (92 %) of digital infrastructure in Europe is fucked. There are no backups, because they are in S3 on Amazon. Toll roads stop working because they are running through Azure kubernetes services. Spotify is instantly out of business. Millions of people have to move from WhatsApp to Viber, Signal and Telegram. All of these companies have to invest in European infrastructure in order to regain our digital sovereignty. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are created, huge investments need to happen. There is a period of suffering, but Europe comes out stronger on the other side.
This is why playing hardball with the US makes sense, this, given that US has shown to be an extremely unreliable partner needs to happen anyway, if they used it as a bargaining chip the things that could of happened are either Trump caves, we forget about tariffs and we continue on our merry way, or he says OK, tariffs are now 30 % and shoots himself in the chest as many have noted before.
People are forgetting that Europe is the biggest consumer market in the world, all of these companies are making immense wealth doing business with Europe. Trump is not immune to pressure, but someone needs to be willing to apply it. You literally listed reasons why EU cant play hardball, and then said that playing hardball makes sense. When it comes to digital services EU cant play hardball because, as of now, they dont have the ball, they not even on the field, they are in the viewers seats. What do you think would happen if Meta, Apple, Alphabet, Amazon withdraw from EU? Essentially you would have hordes of addicted zombies tearing apart government buildings in quest for daily dose of screen dopamine. Those companies never even attempted to move away from Russia after the invasion, and there were a lot of very strong incentives to do that, why do you think Trump could make them do that? Making these companies slightly less profitable by taxing them and giving that money to European investments is a net positive, and we aren't even willing to use it as leverage, for what reason, I don't know, I can speculate and say it would likely end up back at "money talks" and politicians are corrupt assholes. What you are missing is that corporations can count, and are rather willing to test/exercise power they have. What you are talking about is situation where EU has viable alternative for those services, which is widely known (because you wont be able to google it anymore). And yes it would be wildly beneficial for those companies to loose market for 2 months ( I am being overgenerous here) than agree for, lets say, 20% tax. There are no alternatives to google? Really, this is your analysis and reaction to everything I wrote? I can, without an issue move away from every single one of those companies and never look back, it would be annoying, yes, the quality of navigation both online and in my car, the quality of my phone and the way it integrates with the rest of my technology stack would go down, but I could do all of that and save a lot on licensing and cost them in other ways, such as them not being able to sell my data. I understand that I am technologically a bit more advanced then an average Joe, but if push comes to shove all of this shit would keep working, there are Linux distributions that for an average user offer basically the same user experience as Windows, most of the web and app infrastructure already runs on Linux, so we are good there, servers are servers and getting a private cloud is expensive but it's very much possible, I worked in few of such datacenters. Technology is not magic, Europeans are not morons, it would be painful, annoying and slower for a while, but after that it would be cheaper and we'd have the keys to our digital kingdoms, which, in the world of AI where data is king is basically a national security concern. Unfortunately, worms like Ursula don't really give a fuck about that. Why would they lose the market for 2 months? If the divorce happened, it would be gradual and after 3-4 years they would lose all of their revenue from the whole of the Eurozone, the biggest customer market in the world. The only reason why they can throw their weight around is because they have those politicians in their pockets, one way or another. I dont think you understand scale of digitalization today. Most companies now run windows (some mac), what, you think they would replace it overnight? Transitioning in 3-4 years may happen if they focus on it in current environment, not if it has to be done basically from scratch. I mean average person wouldn't even have email anymore. I said 2 months because that what it would took EU to crawl at their feet begging to come back, and again 2 months is very generous estimate. Am I happy that few companies have a power to bring down EU on a whim? No, obviously, but EU made its bed, and doesnt seem actively look for remedy on this dependance.
I mean my job requires me to understand this, I work with infrastructure and am certified in AWS, I understand how this shit works.
These machines wouldn't stop working. That's not how any of this works. I worked for a Croatian company offering cloud services, one of our biggest clients was a payment processing company that covers like 60 % of POS software and hardware in Croatia, I know what it relies on and I can tell you that most of their services were ran on hardware in our Croatian data centers. Some of their backups and services were ran through AWS, but if AWS had an outage these POS machines wouldn't stop.
These Windows and Mac laptops are perfectly capable of running a different OS, they are also perfectly capable to run on unsupported OS for a while until an alternative is installed and users migrated.
Email? Email is trivial, I can spin up an email server on my Macbook in 15 minutes and send you an email from it without any American companies being involved. If EU or any of its members gathered 20 of it's top IT people we'd have a national email service with every citizen enrolled in a week.
No one is talking about replacing things overnight, that's not how these things work.
My issue is that everyone is pretending like US holds monopoly on everything digital, China is doing just fine IT wise without relying on Amazon, Microsoft and Google.
We have the know how, we are just allowing Americans to not pay taxes, leverage their economies of scale and buyout the most promising companies we have for decades, this is shortsighted and Trump is showing that, all I want is for the response not to be to roll over and do nothing and hope he goes away but to actually take steps for us to re-gain our digital sovereignty.
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On August 02 2025 00:09 Uldridge wrote:
I won't engage in this hypothetical, I just don't have the background to make any type of estimate here.
The entire global protectionist trend that's developing seems so bizarre to me. I understand self sufficiency with the deeper idea of shortening your chain so that it's not as straining for the entire planet, but to weaponize that... I'm so appalled by that. Pearl clutching in a globally entangled economy seems so stupid. The only real hegemons are China and US and what if they trade places. Who fucking cares. Who the fuck is going to bat an eyelash if we go from a petrodollar to a voltyuan. Markets gonna market.
However, protectionism is a huge threat to all that so this just becausr the old man is yelling and making a fuss that it's not the good old times. Guess what, we almost have fusion and weird BMI cyborg shit, get over it. Sorry for my rant.
This is the world, I didn't want the US to decide that everyone is being unfair to them and elect the worst person ever to be their leader, after seeing him be the worst person ever in his previous term, but that's how the majority in the US sees the world.
He's not just yelling and making a fuss. He's empowering the worst people in the world to fuck it up further. Him and his cronies are explaining to us Europeans how our enemies are migrants and "the woke". They are trying to empower other nationalists all across our continent. They are the ones pushing for this insane shit, and they are not the types that will be satisfied if you give them a finger, they will take the whole hand.
This is not pearl clutching, this is trying to live in the world we are given, and from what I can tell the EU leadership is still in denial.
I would love to be wrong, but I don't see how you put the toothpaste back into the tube, US institutions are being eroded, they layered on a corrupt judiciary and executive branches, the congress and senate are a cult of Trump, do you think that even if the Americans as a whole change their mind on Trump they'll have free and fair elections in 2028?
Unless EU takes this shit seriously we are all fucked. I might be a doomer but I refuse to be a victim who is just waiting for the next blow to land, even if our representatives are.
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China relies heavily on Windows (Microsoft) and Chinese people broadcasting luxury rely on iOS and OSX. They do not rely on Amazon domestically for similar reasons that they don't rely on Walmart - basically reasons that are removed from anything digital - but they certainly dropship and sell a lot on it plus sell under the de minimis limits into the US.
In other cases, China manages not to rely on western intellectual property through the ingenious strategy of just stealing and duplicating it.
Now you can make your computer run basically any OS you want because there are a limited number of chip architectures due to broad standardization of the CPU market. That is not an achievement per se if the OS has no features and no software for it, which is a function of there being no other users of the OS doing the work to develop/port and maintain said software. And this won't apply to mobile which is even worse (basically good luck supplanting iOS on Apple hardware).
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EPT
