EPTSupply and demand- we simply need to incentivize more vertical housing, but that's mostly city-level decision-making.
Canadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 69
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Falling
Canada11561 Posts
Supply and demand- we simply need to incentivize more vertical housing, but that's mostly city-level decision-making. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
I make enough/have enough saved up to outright buy a home in cash in most parts of the country. Here I don't have a down payment for anything more than a reasonably sized apartment. Disincentives for foreign homeowners across the country is something we sorely needed 10 years ago in BC, along with serious investigations into the rampant money laundering that happened. Sucks that housing is such a low priority on the party platforms. If you take the 5.3 billion that was laundered in over 2018 in BC (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/laundered-money-bc-real-estate-1.5128769), divided by the ~110k households, that's an easy 50k on top for each home on average - off since it's not greater vancouver, just vancouver but still, over the last 20 years it's not hard to imagine the average value going up 500k from money laundering alone. Vancouver's already the 5th densest city in North America. Sure tossing up more housing helps, but look at this: https://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/ca/the-smithe This is a new building going up near work for me, in the downtown core. It's nowhere near affordable on any skilled trade income level, forget an average family. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
The policies put forward by both the Liberals and Conservatives on the issue were quite poor. The Liberals basically were offering to help with payments, which isn't useful and doesn't solve the problem of housing prices being out of reach. The Conservative solution I view as being actively damaging to the issue in that they want to extend mortgage timelines even longer than they already are. I think this could potentially have an impact of not only not reducing housing pricing, but possibly causing it to continue to rise because people can just take out even longer mortgages. This in turn might cause people to go for more expensive housing since they're gonna be paying for it for decades anyway. People are already taking out 30 year mortgages. What's next? 40 or 50 year? Will we have people spending most of their adult life paying off a single loan? This would just compound the issue of Canadians having way too much debt. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17642 Posts
https://uwaterloo.ca/canadian-index-wellbeing/reports/2016-canadian-index-wellbeing-national-report/living-standards I think the PMs and Premiers of that era deserve a good deal of the credit for the economic improvements of that 14 year span. Specifically, I think Mike Harris and Jean Chretien did a great job. In 1988 the Liberals officially opposed the Free Trade agreement with the USA. When Chretien got in power in 1993 he made a smart move in not scraping the FTA deal the Liberals so vigorously opposed just 5 years earlier. In fact, Chretien even expanded upon the Canada/USA Free Trade Agreement. These Free Trade Deals expanded the reach of Canada's private sector giving them a foundation upon which they could grow and then create more high paying jobs. I think the best way to make home ownership a realistic goal for every Canadian is by creating a bedrock//foundation upon which the private sector can expand and grow and create many more high paying jobs. In short, its not a matter of finagling with home loan regulations to squeeze people into houses they can barely afford. Rather, it is a matter of "Creating Opportunity", economic opportunity for all Canadians. If everyone is making a lot more money then we don't need to do all kinds of financial gymnastics to make a mortgage on a home work. The brutal reality is... if Canada is not home to great economic and great career development opportunity then the country's best, brightest and most ambitious will head south. There is great opportunity in the USA. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 18 2019 13:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Canada's standard of living increased quite a bit from 1994 to 2008. Specifically, 22.4% in 14 years. https://uwaterloo.ca/canadian-index-wellbeing/reports/2016-canadian-index-wellbeing-national-report/living-standards I think the PMs and Premiers of that era deserve a good deal of the credit for the economic improvements of that 14 year span. Specifically, I think Mike Harris and Jean Chretien did a great job. In 1988 the Liberals officially opposed the Free Trade agreement with the USA. When Chretien got in power in 1993 he made a smart move in not scraping the FTA deal the Liberals so vigorously opposed just 5 years earlier. In fact, Chretien even expanded upon the Canada/USA Free Trade Agreement. These Free Trade Deals expanded the reach of Canada's private sector giving them a foundation upon which they could grow and then create more high paying jobs. I think the best way to make home ownership a realistic goal for every Canadian is by creating a bedrock//foundation upon which the private sector can expand and grow and create many more high paying jobs. In short, its not a matter of finagling with home loan regulations to squeeze people into houses they can barely afford. Rather, it is a matter of "Creating Opportunity", economic opportunity for all Canadians. If everyone is making a lot more money then we don't need to do all kinds of financial gymnastics to make a mortgage on a home work. The brutal reality is... if Canada is not home to great economic and great career development opportunity then the country's best, brightest and most ambitious will head south. There is great opportunity in the USA. Im not going to disagree that the US doesnt have more opportunity, it does and it has to its just a much larger market, nothing Canada can do will change that, But the evidence you posted doesnt really support. That, the US has record low unemployment, is a fact. But its pretty clear that the job qualiy has now lowered to a wage level of third world countries with first world cost. The PPP that you gain from that sort of employment borders on slavery. And even that fact aside. Did you even read what you linked? None of that paints a picture of a burgeoning environment for the best and the brightest to be attacted to. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17642 Posts
On October 20 2019 00:25 Rebs wrote: Im not going to disagree that the US doesnt have more opportunity, it does and it has to its just a much larger market, nothing Canada can do will change that, But the evidence you posted doesnt really support. That, the US has record low unemployment, is a fact. But its pretty clear that the job qualiy has now lowered to a wage level of third world countries with first world cost. The PPP that you gain from that sort of employment borders on slavery. And even that fact aside. Did you even read what you linked? None of that paints a picture of a burgeoning environment for the best and the brightest to be attacted to. Yes I'm aware of the links I attached. Seeing as you doubt that though let's examine 1 of my links in great detail. Let's examine the opening paragraph of one of my links. Canada’s best and brightest computer engineering graduates are leaving for jobs in Silicon Valley at alarmingly high rates, fuelling a worse “brain drain” than the mass exodus by Canadian doctors two decades ago, according to a new study. I contend the US economy is creating some good jobs that pay good money and offer interesting work. Let's contrast this with your rebuttal. On October 20 2019 00:25 Rebs wrote: But its pretty clear that the job qualiy has now lowered to a wage level of third world countries with first world cost. The PPP that you gain from that sort of employment borders on slavery. Are University of Waterloo graduates getting hired into minimum wage jobs? I highly suspect that is not the case. The average University of Waterloo software engineer makes ~ $30/hour during their final two 4 month work terms. The over all average for Waterloo's entire Co-op program is $25/hour. Electrical Engineers and Software Engineers are at the top of the pay scale.. these are toughest programs and they get paid the most. The average to get into Software Engineering so far above 90% that Waterloo also relies on a student's results in the Euclid Math Contest. Its tough to get into Waterloo's software engineering program and it pays very well. Therefore, I highly suspect the Waterloo grads leaving for Silicon Valley are making far more than slave level wages. Most of the guys I know that immediately jumped to the USA were happy with their jobs. Now, as far as "the USA is bigger" being what you're leaning on here. The software engineering and electrical engineering jobs not only pay better,.. they also offer more interesting work. Cutting edge new stuff. In Canada I get highly paid to maintain ancient 20+ year old transaction based medical and insurance systems. I'm highly paid not because I'm taking their technology to untold heights of efficiency and sophistication .. rather I'm getting paid to barely hold their ancient systems together. In the USA the work I get involves cutting edge auditing methods for evaluating the quality of their analytics systems. The pattern in work quality I'm experiencing is a common experience in my profession. The author attempt to touch upon this issue in the article I linked. Because the audience for the article is not a bunch of software engineers and because the guy writing it is not in the industry he has have trouble getting his point across. Here is how they try to make their point in the article i linked. But the survey also found students sought out global giants with solid reputations in order to enhance their career options, receive better mentoring and work on a wider scope of projects than was available at home. “Many respondents remarked that there was pressure from their peers to seek work with large American technology firms, buoyed by a ‘Cali[fornia] or bust’ maxim,” the study said. So it isn't just the higher pay that motivates a move the USA. It is ALSO the quality of the work. Find someone who is currently enrolled an elite level software engineering OR electrical engineering program at a good canadian school. ( HINT not Ryerson ). There is a quiet non-advertised attitude amongst the students and its expressed by this quote from a friend of mine "i am outta here". Based on the article I linked i guess the new catch phrase is "Cali Or Bust". Generally overall, American companies have better R&D than Canadian companies. I always thought this was an undisputed common knowledge fact. However, if you want we can explore this theme in greater detail. On October 20 2019 00:25 Rebs wrote: That, the US has record low unemployment, is a fact. But its pretty clear that the job qualiy has now lowered to a wage level of third world countries with first world cost. The PPP that you gain from that sort of employment borders on slavery. The 3.5% record low employment is a general indicator of good times in the USA from a very macroscopic perspective. Plenty of states have a $15/hour minimum wage. http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx A lousy job is better than no job. I do not think these minimum wage levels "border on slavery". Plenty of new jobs in the USA are above minimum wage. The USA is in a better place than it was 5 years ago and the stronger US economy has dragged Canada's economy with it. In a rising tide all boats float higher. It is incumbent upon Canada's leadership to create more opportunity for its best , brightest and most ambitious or they will leave. Jean Chretien understood this in 1993 with his Red Book entitled "Creating Opportunity". This ambitious message of hope and positivity resonated with conservative, hard working, ambitious Ontarians and Chretien's Liberals took 99 of Ontario's 100 seats. I'm just about ready to sing the National Anthem now. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Even in more conservative provinces here in Canada we have minimum wages higher when than the US national minimum wage and many state minimum wages in the US (in the South, many states either have no minimum wage or use the national one, which is $7.25, which amounts to about $15k a year). The source you provided says as much. More than half of US states still have minimum wages well under $10, and many of those who have moved forward with $15 minimum wage legislation won't have it fully enacted for at least 3-5 years. That's very much different than "plenty of states have $15 minimum wage". | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17642 Posts
On October 20 2019 02:25 Ben... wrote: But that doesn't address Rebs' point at all. Looking at one profession, and one that happens to pay way better than most at first and is very much a special case not applicable to the majority of fields people seek further education to get into, Check out the entire article that I posted. There are several programs at Waterloo experiencing an exodus to the USA. Software Engineering, Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Systems Design Engineering , and Computer Science. Engineering Science at U of T is also experiencing a large exodus to the USA. So we're talking about a pool of 500 to 600 graduating students per year, every year from the University of Waterloo alone where a big percentage leaves right away. Waterloo is the biggest engineering school in Canada so it makes for an easy example that provides lots of stats to back my point. The same thing is going on in other smaller schools. Here is a more broad based look at Canada's Tech Sector/ https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-s-tech-sector-is-in-race-to-the-bottom-jim-balsillie-1.1042621 Ballsillie wrote an article for the G&M regarding Canada's Tech Sector and its "race to the bottom" that is behind a paywall. However, one of its most important points is here. https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/88baf0/canadas_tech_sector_is_in_race_to_the_bottom_jim/dwjr81c?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x Elmer Kim was on CBC today with Jennifer Bartman stating his disappointment that no PM candidates are offering an ambitious vision for Canada in the fastest growing areas of the world's economy that also offer the best paying jobs. I echo his concerns. On October 20 2019 02:25 Ben... wrote: a large fraction of people in the US, especially young folks, don't make enough money even working full-time to comfortably make ends meet. People working 2-3 jobs now because pay isn't high enough to cover the increasing cost of living isn't some incredibly rare situation, it's quite common now. even if this is happening it doesn't impact Canada's hardest working and most talented university grads. They are getting high paying jobs when they go to the USA. Otherwise, they would not leave. They would stay in Canada. Here is what all Waterloo Co-op students are making in the USA. It looks like they are doing well when it comes to money. https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-op/co-op-earnings/earnings-united-states-work-terms On October 20 2019 02:25 Ben... wrote: Even in more conservative provinces here in Canada we have minimum wages higher when than the US national minimum wage and many state minimum wages in the US (in the South, many states either have no minimum wage or use the national one, which is $7.25, which amounts to about $15k a year). The source you provided says as much. More than half of US states still have minimum wages well under $10, and many of those who have moved forward with $15 minimum wage legislation won't have it fully enacted for at least 3-5 years. That's very much different than "plenty of states have $15 minimum wage". they do when you convert it to Canadian money. Ontario has a $14/hour minimum wage in Canadian money. That said, based on the #s provided I wouldn't call the minimum wage in US states "bordering on slavery". That's an exaggeration. The $14/hour minimum wage in Ontario has resulted in hours being cut back, medical benefits being removed and it has grown the GIG economy and the underground economy. A minimum wage will not create higher paying jobs. A vibrant, growing economy creates higher paying jobs. Tell ya man, there is nothing like going into work every day with your boss having in the back of his or her mind that you might leave for a better job. That beats any union any where. In conclusion, I pretty much echo Elmer Kim's concerns he voiced on the CBC today. If the CBC interview ends up online I'll post it. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Not to mention there's been massive moves in the last year or so to keep tech workers in Canada. Here in the prairies there's been huge investment to keep developers here or attract developers from elsewhere with our lower cost of living and substantially shorter commutes. Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg all have tech communities that are growing year over year at huge rates since people are starting to realize that living in Vancouver, Toronto, San Francisco and other tech "hubs" is now getting so expensive they you don't end up making more money than if you were elsewhere unless you want to sacrifice big chunks of your day commuting. In Saskatoon alone I can think of at least 3 companies planning to hire hundreds of developers over the next couple years as they expand, and they are finding folks to fill these seats from what I've heard. But again, tech is a special case that does not even remotely represent most industries in Canada. When I was talking minimum wage I was factoring in currency conversion. $7.25, the national minimum wage in the US, when converted is around $9 CAD. The average minimum wage here in Canada around $12.50 when averaged over all provinces. The other thing that also has to be factored in though is that in the US you also must pay for health insurance unless your company provides it, and that's much less common with lower paying jobs. There may be reduced benefits at part time or minimum wage work here, but we also don't have to spend hundreds (or much more in the case of families) a month on health insurance or risk being completely bankrupted should we have any health problems, nor do we have to pay a copay just to see a doctor in the first place. The state of the US healthcare system exacerbates basically every issue relating to low wages there. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
I already acknowledged that the US market is bigger and invites the highest skill workers in any field. That has fuck all to do with an improving quality of life for the general popuilace. As for brain drain. Not sure where you live or what part of the tech industry you have experience with but if you are still working with Fox Pro I cant imagine its particularly advanced. My Company Descartes is acquiring tech business within the logistics stream alone left and right. A company you should be familiar with given the waterloo references you keep throwing around. The Tech scene in Toronto is 10x what it was when I moved her. Its nowhere near what it is in the US, it never will be. As the level of skilled workers graduating in Canada increases + Show Spoiler + (especially since the current majority of those high skill grads are bolstered by immigrants - dont even pretend thats not true) And with the massive competition for those high skill jobs in the US particulary Tech not everyone with those skills gets to go, or maybe even wants to go. And thats where the local tech sector benefits. Its going to be slow, its not going to happen overnight. And it will probably never catch up, but as long as it reaches a healthy level. Who cares? + Show Spoiler [offtopic gripe] + and please while Waterloo is an excellent school throwing it around belies some weird insecurity you seem to have. Its good to proud of where you went to school but dragging it into every conversation to make a point is very off putting. You literally wrote there is great opportunity in the USA embedding an article about how the US unemployment is at an all time low that has almost nothing to do with Skilled workers and everything to do with unskilled ones. And what was that about your boss thinking you can leave any day? No you cant leave, not always, in alot of cases your benefits, your healthcare your dependencies are tied to your employer. Again were not talking about high skilled workers. High skill workers will be fine anywhere. But thats not the average populace. As someone who fall in the high skill worker category 10 years in the US and CHOSE to move to Canada through express entry. I can acknowledge that income has gone down by a third, but my overall quality of life has significantly improved. My employer respects my time, my personal life, my productivity is better because I dont feel stressed. I have more times for things I enjoy. Back in the US bought a 2000 dollar machine after my first job and played a grand total 0 games my first 4 years out of college. You deal with it because your young and its exciting and the money is coming in. But its not a healthy lifestyle. Nor a sustainable one. Things arent perfect in Toronto atleast. The Job market is tough, the wages arent amazing relative the cost of living and housing for a family near where I live right now is unaffordable. But its nothing different from the valley in that respect.Just the numbers are lower. That same boss in the US that you are saying is so worried about you walking out tomorrow can pick from a 10102321232 H1-B applicants whichever one of them gets the lottery pick. Hes only worried about some short term blowback. Companies deal with it all the time. I also find it exceptionally amusing that you are presenting the CEO of literally the worst biggest failing in history whose first mover was so far ahead people were still using flips and managed to fuck it up. Jim Balsielie is a poster boy for how to NOT manage a large success tech company. Its people like that, who sit on their laurels thinking they are hot shit that makes people leave too. Ever thought of that ? | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32748 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
![[image loading]](https://assets.nationalnewswatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/20070032/nanos-last.jpg) vs 2015 ![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Opinion_Polling_during_the_2015_Canadian_Federal_Election.svg/1000px-Opinion_Polling_during_the_2015_Canadian_Federal_Election.svg.png) | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Edit: also, what Rebs and Ben said is true. The tech industry in Canada might not get as big as say Silicon Valley, but they are pushing it in the big cities. In Ottawa, there's a tech area in the western part of the city which has a lot of different companies too. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Results will stream in here: https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/results/ I'm glad that I have a toss-up riding. I can be reasonably sure that my vote matters. Popcorn starts at 7pm EST, 4pm PST We'll see how much change comes in over the next few years. As far as the tech topic, it's definitely growing, but wages aren't really going up at a significant rate. It's nowhere close to being able to catch up to the living expenses in the big cities in a reasonable timeframe. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Just as a tip, when looking at polling data, in this election specifically what you want to look at isn't voter intention (i.e. what's posted above) but instead seat projections (which take into account regional polling). Voter intention is skewed heavily in this election by the fact that the Conservatives have 50%+ support in areas where they are unlikely to actually pick up many seats. Saskatchewan and Alberta heavily skew the Conservatives' voter intention numbers up but they only stand to gain maybe 10 seats in these provinces, despite picking up possibly tens of thousands of more votes in these provinces than last election. This is why, despite the Liberals and Conservatives at a statistical tie in voter intention, both 338Canada and CBC's PollTracker give the Liberals around a 60% chance of winning. But yes, it's basically impossible to predict what will happen. The polls the last 3-4 days have started to tend toward the Liberals again, with the NDP losing a couple points of support, which is why CBC now gives the Liberals a 50% chance of a minority, but there's still a good chunk of undecided voters, and a lot of voters, especially NDP supporters, have indicated in polls they are open to vote for a different party to keep another party out of power (so essentially strategic voting). It's all going to come down to how things go in BC, Ontario, and Quebec. Just like every election. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 22 2019 03:08 Ben... wrote: It's all going to come down to how things go in BC, Ontario, and Quebec. Just like every election. Yep.. in some ways its kind of sad that this is the case. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On October 22 2019 03:10 Rebs wrote: Yep.. in some ways its kind of sad that this is the case. I mean it's also where over 2/3 of the voters are. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On October 22 2019 05:17 Nakajin wrote: I mean it's also where over 2/3 of the voters are. Yes, that is definitely true. One thing that always annoys me about people here in the prairies is the people who complain about how we "have no say in federal government". We do have a say, but it just happens to be proportional to the number of people. Combined, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta have half the population of Ontario alone. I think it's more that because of our electoral system, most provinces other than the big 3 essentially have no impact on the election. In Saskatchewan, half or more of voters typically don't vote Conservative, but because of FPTP, only 2-3 seats typically go to non-Conservative parties, which makes the province a non-factor. Same with Manitoba, and to a lesser extent, Alberta. It's the same with several maritime provinces and the Liberal party. Under a proportional system, things would look quite different and each province would be able to meaningfully contribute to the election. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On October 22 2019 05:17 Nakajin wrote: I mean it's also where over 2/3 of the voters are. Yeah, and thats one of the ways. Additionally its only going to get worse. I think some degree of proportional representation could be good. And thats why i suggested it was somewhat sad because I personally wouldnt be able to offer a good suggestion on how to implement it. The real thing challenge is making those places attractive. So people "want" to live there. And thats really really difficult for a variety of reasons. That bit is also sad, because those places "can" have alot of to offer, but dont offer things people with mobility these days really want. I was offered a project that involved me relocating to Medicine Hat for a year and it was literally double pay with a gazillion perks and I didnt even consider it because there is just no way I am going to leave City life. This is obviously an extreme example. But my drift should be obvious. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On October 22 2019 06:48 Rebs wrote: Yeah, and thats one of the ways. Additionally its only going to get worse. I think some degree of proportional representation could be good. And thats why i suggested it was somewhat sad because I personally wouldnt be able to offer a good suggestion on how to implement it. Yes, that's the tricky part about proportional representation. You'd essentially have to give up voting for a local representative and instead each party would put forth a pool of representatives or something along those lines. There'd be a lot of edge cases that would need to be handled also. | ||
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