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On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay.
Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females?
On March 09 2015 11:56 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:29 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:23 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:19 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:18 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:15 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:02 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:
[quote]
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through. His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender. It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society. I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else. Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness. Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do. But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness). Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question. We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal. My whole point is that what women are feeling, quite frankly, is irrelevant. The reason many male gamer find this whole topic insulting is because the obvious implication is that male gamers are a bunch of misogynistic pigs who are singling out women for insult and ridicule. This implication is ludicrous for all of the reasons already discussed. Focusing on the issue from the perspective of what women are feeling only fuels this narrative, which is why I am rejecting it outright. But don't you see how presumptious it is for a man to say how women feel about rape threats is irrelevant? A rape threat to a man and a rape threat to a woman obviously has to be understood in difference contexts, even if it is an online one.
Online, a rape threat is just as credible against a 210lb MMA fighter or a 110lb 17 year old girl, i.e. its not credible at all. Women online are no more likely to be raped by online trolls than men.
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On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay.
TIL Girls who do BJJ can't feel the same things "the general female population" can.
Plus, that wasn't even my point, my point was. Yes, I understand what it means to be subjected to someone who's physically stronger than me, and could force their will on me. IT HAPPENS REGULARLY. I consider it a fucking success if I can go to a 1.5 hour open mat, and tap less than 10 times that night. Guess what each tap means? It means I'm fucking dead, I got checkmated. So, to answer your question. Yes, I know exactly what it means to be in a situation where I can't physically fight back, no matter what I do. It's happened hundreds of times, and it's going to continue happening.
On March 09 2015 11:56 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:49 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:29 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:23 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:19 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:18 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:15 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:02 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:
[quote]
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through. His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender. It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society. I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else. Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness. Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do. But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness). Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question. We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal. My whole point is that what women are feeling, quite frankly, is irrelevant. The reason many male gamer find this whole topic insulting is because the obvious implication is that male gamers are a bunch of misogynistic pigs who are singling out women for insult and ridicule. This implication is ludicrous for all of the reasons already discussed. Focusing on the issue from the perspective of what women are feeling only fuels this narrative, which is why I am rejecting it outright. But don't you see how presumptious it is for a man to say how women feel about rape threats is irrelevant? A rape threat to a man and a rape threat to a woman obviously has to be understood in difference contexts, even if it is an online one.
TIL a dick in man's pooper, has a different rape context than a dick in the goo.
Seriously, rape threats are rape threats. Who are you contextualize what guys who get rape threats feels?
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On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:
[quote]
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females?
Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete.
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levelping, the kind of discussion you're looking for should be directed towards reddit where you can get the kind of feedback and knowledge about female feelings you're looking for.
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On March 09 2015 11:58 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:
[quote]
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. TIL Girls who do BJJ can't feel the same things "the general female population" can. Plus, that wasn't even my point, my point was. Yes, I understand what it means to be subjected to someone who's physically stronger than me, and could force their will on me. IT HAPPENS REGULARLY. I consider it a fucking success if I can go to a 1.5 hour open mat, and tap less than 10 times that night. Guess what each tap means? It means I'm fucking dead, I got checkmated. So, to answer your question. Yes, I know exactly what it means to be in a situation where I can't physically fight back, no matter what I do. It's happened hundreds of times, and it's going to continue happening.
Please, before getting defensive, consider that a physical exchange in the controlled context of a martial art is obviously very different from the presence of a physically stronger gender who could force himself on you if he wanted to. I did not make any point as to what Girls who do BJJ can or cannot feel, so I am not sure where you are going with that inference.
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On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:
[quote]
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete.
No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion.
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I think there is a point to the fact that there are probably plenty of misogynists (specifically targeting women) that use digital platforms like gaming to reach targets they otherwise wouldn't in a way that just doesn't happen to men. And there is support to the idea that women get more rape threats/sexual harassment/stalking (because they are women).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.png)
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On March 09 2015 12:01 CorsairHero wrote:
levelping, the kind of discussion you're looking for should be directed towards reddit where you can get the kind of feedback and knowledge about female feelings you're looking for.
From the way this thread is going, it appears fairly necessary here. Or would you rather a string of posts agreeing with you about how maglined male games are - missing the point entirely?
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On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:
[quote]
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion.
I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary?
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Documentaries like this are always just ass-backwards. Nearly every girl who has played video games that I've known gets special treatment and is welcomed with open arms into communities as long as they aren't completely batshit insane or a psycho. Then again, if they have the looks, then being psycho is acceptable. Additionally, girl gamers with very poor skills in their respective games will get way more viewers than men if they have a webcam on.
I see men getting harassed all the time. "You suck", "Faggot", "Get cancer", "Commit suicide", "I hope you die", and so on, are examples of the awful stuff that male gamers will hear on a regular basis if they gravitate toward the wrong communities within gaming. This tells me that there is a bigger issue here, but it always seems like special interests groups want to hijack the conversation and make it about them.
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On March 09 2015 12:04 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion. I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary?
Are you seriously implying that men don't get raped?
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On March 09 2015 12:01 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:58 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:
[quote]
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. TIL Girls who do BJJ can't feel the same things "the general female population" can. Plus, that wasn't even my point, my point was. Yes, I understand what it means to be subjected to someone who's physically stronger than me, and could force their will on me. IT HAPPENS REGULARLY. I consider it a fucking success if I can go to a 1.5 hour open mat, and tap less than 10 times that night. Guess what each tap means? It means I'm fucking dead, I got checkmated. So, to answer your question. Yes, I know exactly what it means to be in a situation where I can't physically fight back, no matter what I do. It's happened hundreds of times, and it's going to continue happening. Please, before getting defensive, consider that a physical exchange in the controlled context of a martial art is obviously very different from the presence of a physically stronger gender who could force himself on you if he wanted to. I did not make any point as to what Girls who do BJJ can or cannot feel, so I am not sure where you are going with that inference.
Every male is so strong that they are impervious to assault? Even strong adult males were once vulnerable children. Ironically it is probably children (or near it) who are most guilty of abusing women online.
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On March 09 2015 12:04 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion. I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary?
I don't need to understand how women feel about rape threats online. If you get freaked out by what some troll in a videogame, who you will quite likely never see again, said he was going to rape you, you will get no sympathy from me. It's such an empty threat it is absolutely a non-issue. It's like me threatening to blow up the Earth.
Rape threats online =/= rape threats in real life.
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On March 09 2015 12:01 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:58 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:
[quote]
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. TIL Girls who do BJJ can't feel the same things "the general female population" can. Plus, that wasn't even my point, my point was. Yes, I understand what it means to be subjected to someone who's physically stronger than me, and could force their will on me. IT HAPPENS REGULARLY. I consider it a fucking success if I can go to a 1.5 hour open mat, and tap less than 10 times that night. Guess what each tap means? It means I'm fucking dead, I got checkmated. So, to answer your question. Yes, I know exactly what it means to be in a situation where I can't physically fight back, no matter what I do. It's happened hundreds of times, and it's going to continue happening. Please, before getting defensive, consider that a physical exchange in the controlled context of a martial art is obviously very different from the presence of a physically stronger gender who could force himself on you if he wanted to. I did not make any point as to what Girls who do BJJ can or cannot feel, so I am not sure where you are going with that inference.
Do you do BJJ, and get regularly choked out by people that are far stronger than you? Where they put you in a compromising position regularly?
How can you commentate on how the feeling is if you haven't done it?
See what I'm doing? See how bullshit your entire argument is now?
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On March 09 2015 12:08 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:01 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:58 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:
[quote]
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. TIL Girls who do BJJ can't feel the same things "the general female population" can. Plus, that wasn't even my point, my point was. Yes, I understand what it means to be subjected to someone who's physically stronger than me, and could force their will on me. IT HAPPENS REGULARLY. I consider it a fucking success if I can go to a 1.5 hour open mat, and tap less than 10 times that night. Guess what each tap means? It means I'm fucking dead, I got checkmated. So, to answer your question. Yes, I know exactly what it means to be in a situation where I can't physically fight back, no matter what I do. It's happened hundreds of times, and it's going to continue happening. Please, before getting defensive, consider that a physical exchange in the controlled context of a martial art is obviously very different from the presence of a physically stronger gender who could force himself on you if he wanted to. I did not make any point as to what Girls who do BJJ can or cannot feel, so I am not sure where you are going with that inference. Do you do BJJ, and get regularly choked out by people that are far stronger than you? Where they put you in a compromising position regularly? How can you commentate on how the feeling is if you haven't done it? See what I'm doing? See how bullshit your entire argument is now?
I don't know, but if you would like to explain how this is the same as the fear of being raped that would be far more useful than empty rhetoric.
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On March 09 2015 12:08 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:04 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:
[quote]
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion. I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary? Are you seriously implying that men don't get raped?
I am obviously not. I am making what I think would be a fairly uncontroversial point that women have to worry much more about getting raped than men. Which is why while we can obviously shrug off virtual insults, this is different for a women who, in her real life may be worrying about actually getting raped (whereas this is less of an issue for men).
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On March 09 2015 12:33 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:08 CorsairHero wrote:On March 09 2015 12:04 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion. I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary? Are you seriously implying that men don't get raped? I am obviously not. I am making what I think would be a fairly uncontroversial point that women have to worry much more about getting raped than men. Which is why while we can obviously shrug off virtual insults, this is different for a women who, in her real life may be worrying about actually getting raped (whereas this is less of an issue for men).
Sure, she can worry about real life threats. But virtual ones? She has no more cause for alarm than any man.
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On March 09 2015 12:33 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:08 CorsairHero wrote:On March 09 2015 12:04 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 12:02 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:59 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:56 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 11:52 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:39 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 11:31 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 11:21 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz) Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently. That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue. I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay. Well, you seem to like making generalizations about male gamers, so why can't he generalize about females? Please tell me where I am generalising male gamers. My reference point has been the posts in this thread only, who are dismissing the problem as not being a big deal. I don't think I've ever asserted that all male gamers are rapists, rude, or teeanger dolts. If you can point to that part, I'd happily delete. No, you've asserted that male gamers can't relate to female gamers, cuz they can't feel the same things. Which is more asinine than the actual discussion. I'm saying that we don't know or understand how women feel with regard to rape threats. And so we should start by acknowledging that we are in a position of some amount of ignorance, as oppose to dimissing the problem entirely. Are you saying you underdstand how women feel about rape threats, better than the women who are making this documentary? Are you seriously implying that men don't get raped? I am obviously not. I am making what I think would be a fairly uncontroversial point that women have to worry much more about getting raped than men. Which is why while we can obviously shrug off virtual insults, this is different for a women who, in her real life may be worrying about actually getting raped (whereas this is less of an issue for men).
Meanwhile, "gay" and "faggot" can only be insults to men, both straight and gay (the latter because it's intended as an insult). I'm willing to bet they are used just as much or more than rape threats. So are we, as men, unable to shrug off virtual insults to our sexuality? You are doing more than making the point that women have to worry more about getting raped. You are claiming that women are not only physically weak and vulnerable, but emotionally so as well.
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On March 09 2015 12:05 ninazerg wrote:
I see men getting harassed all the time. "You suck", "Faggot", "Get cancer", "Commit suicide", "I hope you die", and so on, are examples of the awful stuff that male gamers will hear on a regular basis if they gravitate toward the wrong communities within gaming. This tells me that there is a bigger issue here, but it always seems like special interests groups want to hijack the conversation and make it about them.
Are women really trying to "hijack the conversation"? Just because a social trend is applicable to more than one group doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand how that trends impacts one specific group. You could think of it as "studying the impact of x on y population." You might as well say, "I wish these Third World Countries would stop trying to hijack the conversation about globalization. It's a much broader issue." That's not an analytically helpful stance. Globalization is complicated, harassment is complicated, and sometimes you need to limit the scope of your research to get meaningful results. And it seems like we have some pretty good reasons for suspecting that gender is a relevant category where harassment is concerned, so why not look at how harassment presents when directed toward women, a gendered group? That seems like a reasonable question to ask---and certainly not deserving of all the vitriol.
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On March 09 2015 12:47 RuiBarbO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 12:05 ninazerg wrote:
I see men getting harassed all the time. "You suck", "Faggot", "Get cancer", "Commit suicide", "I hope you die", and so on, are examples of the awful stuff that male gamers will hear on a regular basis if they gravitate toward the wrong communities within gaming. This tells me that there is a bigger issue here, but it always seems like special interests groups want to hijack the conversation and make it about them. Are women really trying to "hijack the conversation"?
are you not aware of how much attention women issues are getting? Like gender pay gap which isn't even an issue if you sift through the raw data.
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EPT
