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As reported in the NYTimes, GTFO is a documentary about what it's like to be a female gamer, and the abuse one often faces as a woman playing hardcore online games (example cited in the article is Call of Duty).
The article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/08/movies/in-the-documentary-gtfo-female-video-gamers-fight-back.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=mini-moth
Some quotes:
Ms. Sun-Higginson first started work on “GTFO” in early 2012, after she had seen a clip from Cross Assault, a live-streaming competition series in which a player, Aris Bakhtanians, sexually harassed his teammate Miranda Pakozdi for several minutes during the show, commenting repeatedly about her thighs and bra size, telling her to take off her shirt, and pretending to smell her. Ms. Sun-Higginson initially planned to focus on this sort of harassment, but her approach broadened as she spoke with more women. “I decided to take a step back and explore what it means to be a woman in gaming in general, both the positive and the negative,” she said.
Over the years, Ms. Haniver has endured all sorts of abuse as a female gamer. You must be fat, male players tell her, or ugly, or a slut, or own a lot of cats. Several have threatened to rape and kill her. “One guy said he was going to impregnate me with triplets and then force me to have a late-term abortion,” she said in a phone interview. “Then he giggled.”
“My biggest fear for this movie is that it scares young women away from this industry, which is really growing and thriving right now,” Ms. Sun-Higginson said. “Obviously the more women and the more diverse people in general who join the industry, the better.”
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I really don't think the immature kids that talk to girl gamers like this are going after girl gamers. I think they are being dicks to everyone. Most guys, especially ones over 12, LOVE to have girls that play their games too.
In general this "defend girl gamers!" thing is ridiculous. Everyone has to deal with the shitty little immature trolls, not just girls.
The majority of this journalism on girl gamer equality is only a way for the producers of this content to make money. Which is why I didn't click the link.
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It sounds like the average thing an average gamer(both female and male) goes through online.
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On March 09 2015 01:05 travis wrote:
I really don't think the immature kids that talk to girl gamers like this are going after girl gamers. I think they are being dicks to everyone. Most guys, especially ones over 12, LOVE to have girls that play their games too.
In general this "defend girl gamers!" thing is ridiculous. Everyone has to deal with the shitty little immature trolls, not just girls.
The "defend girl gamers" thing is mostly because girls are just starting to play games. Trolling is not a new thing in videogames. So the social justice crowd, who's only experience with videogames is angry birds or candy crush, assume the trolling is about girl gamers, when really its nothing new.
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On March 09 2015 01:05 travis wrote:
I really don't think the immature kids that talk to girl gamers like this are going after girl gamers. I think they are being dicks to everyone. Most guys, especially ones over 12, LOVE to have girls that play their games too.
In general this "defend girl gamers!" thing is ridiculous. Everyone has to deal with the shitty little immature trolls, not just girls.
My impression from reading the article is that the documentary is, first and foremost, a presentation of what female gamers experience when they play online games. Part of this highlights the extent to which the vocal minority---which includes adults as well as children---has the microphone with pretty much no consequences, and the amount of vitriol that is, in fact, directed specifically at women. But women are certainly not the only ones who suffer from this kind of thing, nor does the documentary seem to make that claim.
Being ourselves not women, I think it's safe to say we don't have as good a sense of what women experience when they play games, don't you think?
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business.
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“One guy said he was going to impregnate me with triplets and then force me to have a late-term abortion,” she said in a phone interview. “Then he giggled.”
hahahahahaha who says that?
Well we could make a documentary about being abused as male gamers too, and talk about how we have been abused.
People are bound to talk shit due to the stress when it comes to anything competitive, be it games or sports or cooking. What we have learnt to do is to learn to adapt instead of complain and whine, girls can do the same.
Just look at ninazerg.
On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
But women are certainly not the only ones who suffer from this kind of thing, nor does the documentary seem to make that claim.
Since you agree that it happens to everyone, a proper documentary would be about abuse to everyone.
Moreover, the title is GTFO. Don't be daft about their intentions. Guys talk shit to each other all the time and nobody ever felt the need to make a documentary about guys being abused.
And let's not forget sometimes girls get a lot of extra attention and gifts from guys, which wouldn't have been given to them were they not a girl.
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hmm sorry but i dont understand.. first off 99% of the time there is an ignore/mute feature for toxic players and also there will always be dicks in every online game, what can be said in online games is pretty much uncontrolled and rarely punishable, most negative things said online are completely harmless to you in your real life unless you really let it get to your head.. chances are if a guy is harrassing a girl online, hes probably just a dick to the majority of people he meets online and has harrassed an opponent or teammate who was male another time. once these guys know they are communicating with a girl, they are going to pullout their sexist jokes, on the other hand if it was a male gamer they're mad at, i bet they'd call him a faggot or a virgin or something along those lines... its just the nature of online games, either deal with it and dont take it to heart or dont play it at all. thats just my 2 cents :p
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On March 09 2015 01:17 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
But women are certainly not the only ones who suffer from this kind of thing, nor does the documentary seem to make that claim. Since you agree that it happens to everyone, a proper documentary would be about abuse to everyone. Moreover, the title is GTFO. Don't be daft about their intentions. Guys talk shit to each other all the time and nobody ever felt the need to make a documentary about guys being abused.
I mean as far as I'm concerned, there's plenty of abuse that happens to guys that people don't talk about enough. But that doesn't necessarily mean that, as informed citizens of democratic society, we should assume abuse is uniform in how it appears. I admit the way I phrased that sentence didn't do a very good job of highlighting that, though. I just think this documentary might make some relevant observations, and who knows, maybe it will even turn out that the abuse women face is actually different in a meaningful way from non-women. Or maybe it won't do anything useful at all. I don't know because I haven't seen it. But dismissing it based on the assumption that its findings are overstated or untrue is backwards; you watch the thing and then decide whether what you saw is significant.
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Netherlands6192 Posts
Don't reveal you're a girl, simple!
I agree with travis though, everyone has to put up with rude tonsils on the internet, and you can't let the dumb shit they say get to you. You're there to have fun anyway.
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On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business.
You aren't following it down enough. If he clicks the link, then it gets another view. Another view = another ad, another ad = revenue. Another view = more hype, more hype = more buying of the documentary. More buying of the documentary = more "fame." I think you know where I'm going with this now.
Girls honestly do face a harder image in the gaming industry, but not for the reasons we're talking about. Trolling isn't it, it's sexual harrassment that can sometimes be really awful - like the example cited above. That is extremely rare on the big stage though, especially compared to other "big stages."
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On March 09 2015 02:52 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business. You aren't following it down enough. If he clicks the link, then it gets another view. Another view = another ad, another ad = revenue. Another view = more hype, more hype = more buying of the documentary. More buying of the documentary = more "fame." I think you know where I'm going with this now. Girls honestly do face a harder image in the gaming industry, but not for the reasons we're talking about. Trolling isn't it, it's sexual harrassment that can sometimes be really awful - like the example cited above. That is extremely rare on the big stage though, especially compared to other "big stages."
It's hardly real sexual harassment though. Trolls try to find the things that bother their targets the most. Once they realize their target is a woman, sex-based insults are both obvious and effective. Remember, these are the same trolls who throw around the N word if their target is black. If you're on voice chat and have a higher voice, they'll call you a virgin 12 year-old.
The trolls aren't throwing around sex-based insults because they're misogynist bigots, they're doing it because they're assholes in general.
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On March 09 2015 03:13 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 02:52 docvoc wrote:On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business. You aren't following it down enough. If he clicks the link, then it gets another view. Another view = another ad, another ad = revenue. Another view = more hype, more hype = more buying of the documentary. More buying of the documentary = more "fame." I think you know where I'm going with this now. Girls honestly do face a harder image in the gaming industry, but not for the reasons we're talking about. Trolling isn't it, it's sexual harrassment that can sometimes be really awful - like the example cited above. That is extremely rare on the big stage though, especially compared to other "big stages." It's hardly real sexual harassment though. Trolls try to find the things that bother their targets the most. Once they realize their target is a woman, sex-based insults are both obvious and effective. Remember, these are the same trolls who throw around the N word if their target is black. If you're on voice chat and have a higher voice, they'll call you a virgin 12 year-old. The trolls aren't throwing around sex-based insults because they're misogynist bigots, they're doing it because they're assholes in general.
I'm not talking about trolls. I said "trolling isn't it." I'm talking about if people were to tell Sjokz to take off her top, like some of the CoD people and Halo people used to do on the big stage, in a somewhat formal environment. This isn't as common now as it was back in the day, but it's still somewhat of a reality. I do think this documentary overblows it, but if she hadn't taken it more broadly and kept to her original path it would have been better.
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On March 09 2015 02:37 dravernor wrote:
Don't reveal you're a girl, simple!
I am a bit suprised that you dont think that this is problematic.
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On March 09 2015 03:13 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 02:52 docvoc wrote:On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business. You aren't following it down enough. If he clicks the link, then it gets another view. Another view = another ad, another ad = revenue. Another view = more hype, more hype = more buying of the documentary. More buying of the documentary = more "fame." I think you know where I'm going with this now. Girls honestly do face a harder image in the gaming industry, but not for the reasons we're talking about. Trolling isn't it, it's sexual harrassment that can sometimes be really awful - like the example cited above. That is extremely rare on the big stage though, especially compared to other "big stages." It's hardly real sexual harassment though. Trolls try to find the things that bother their targets the most. Once they realize their target is a woman, sex-based insults are both obvious and effective. Remember, these are the same trolls who throw around the N word if their target is black. If you're on voice chat and have a higher voice, they'll call you a virgin 12 year-old. The trolls aren't throwing around sex-based insults because they're misogynist bigots, they're doing it because they're assholes in general.
I'm pretty sure that sexual harassment is still sexual harassment regardless of whether the person is genuinely a misogynist or just a general asshole.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On March 09 2015 03:22 Paljas wrote:I am a bit suprised that you dont think that this is problematic.
I mean, let's be honest, the best thing you can do in a decently sized gaming community with wide audience is pretend that you're actually a bot. Because if you're a human being, you will likely be "abused" by some random kid that thinks it makes him cooler.
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Yooooo they mentioned the Aris incident. Lmao!
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On March 09 2015 03:24 RuiBarbO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 03:13 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 02:52 docvoc wrote:On March 09 2015 01:12 RuiBarbO wrote:
Edit: Also travis, it's a link to a NYTimes article. The documentary producers don't make money from that, unless I am seriously misinformed about how the NYTimes does business. You aren't following it down enough. If he clicks the link, then it gets another view. Another view = another ad, another ad = revenue. Another view = more hype, more hype = more buying of the documentary. More buying of the documentary = more "fame." I think you know where I'm going with this now. Girls honestly do face a harder image in the gaming industry, but not for the reasons we're talking about. Trolling isn't it, it's sexual harrassment that can sometimes be really awful - like the example cited above. That is extremely rare on the big stage though, especially compared to other "big stages." It's hardly real sexual harassment though. Trolls try to find the things that bother their targets the most. Once they realize their target is a woman, sex-based insults are both obvious and effective. Remember, these are the same trolls who throw around the N word if their target is black. If you're on voice chat and have a higher voice, they'll call you a virgin 12 year-old. The trolls aren't throwing around sex-based insults because they're misogynist bigots, they're doing it because they're assholes in general. I'm pretty sure that sexual harassment is still sexual harassment regardless of whether the person is genuinely a misogynist or just a general asshole.
People need to stop taking things to heart.
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." - Stephen Fry
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On March 09 2015 03:31 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 03:22 Paljas wrote:On March 09 2015 02:37 dravernor wrote:
Don't reveal you're a girl, simple!
I am a bit suprised that you dont think that this is problematic. I mean, let's be honest, the best thing you can do in a decently sized gaming community with wide audience is pretend that you're actually a bot. Because if you're a human being, you will likely be "abused" by some random kid that thinks it makes him cooler.
I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Like I said, dravernor has probably a better perspective on this issue, so I would appreciate if she could share and explain her thoughts.
In general, threads like this one leave a bad taste in my mouth: a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems.
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On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 03:31 lolfail9001 wrote:On March 09 2015 03:22 Paljas wrote:On March 09 2015 02:37 dravernor wrote:
Don't reveal you're a girl, simple!
I am a bit suprised that you dont think that this is problematic. I mean, let's be honest, the best thing you can do in a decently sized gaming community with wide audience is pretend that you're actually a bot. Because if you're a human being, you will likely be "abused" by some random kid that thinks it makes him cooler. I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Like I said, dravernor has probably a better perspective on this issue, so I would appreciate if she could share and explain her thoughts. In general, threads like this one leave a bad taste in my mouth: a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment arnt problems.
Because insulting the fact that you're a man gets no reaction from you.
Online trolling and raging has very little to do with who you are, and everything to do with what will get a response from you. Revealing personal information about yourself just gives someone more ammo that's targeted directly at you.
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On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 03:31 lolfail9001 wrote:On March 09 2015 03:22 Paljas wrote:On March 09 2015 02:37 dravernor wrote:
Don't reveal you're a girl, simple!
I am a bit suprised that you dont think that this is problematic. I mean, let's be honest, the best thing you can do in a decently sized gaming community with wide audience is pretend that you're actually a bot. Because if you're a human being, you will likely be "abused" by some random kid that thinks it makes him cooler. I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Like I said, dravernor has probably a better perspective on this issue, so I would appreciate if she could share and explain her thoughts. In general, threads like this one leave a bad taste in my mouth: a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems.
You may not have been abused for being male, but surely you've been abused for other, equally trivial things.
What makes sexual harassment any worse than any of the other vile crap that gets said in online games?
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EPT
