EPTI don't get it either...
'GTFO', New Documentary about Female Gamers - Page 3
| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
Velr
Switzerland10876 Posts
I don't get it either... | ||
|
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:08 Chewbacca. wrote: But what does that matter? Those men are likely taking more insults of a non-sexist nature than the women are. Trolls want to troll no matter the target, if the target is a woman they are going to receive sexist insults, if the target is a man they are going to receive other insults. Women respond more to the sexist insults so that is what is thrown at them, men don't respond as much to sexist insults so they receive insults of another form. What is wrong with this? Are we to consider sexist based insults worse than non-sexist based? I think the problem your getting into here is a bit of moral absolutism, where you think everyone should have the same beliefs and values as you. so because you don't see something as offensive you don't see why anyone else would. In a vacuum your point is valid but people are not purely rational beings(nor should they be as that would make making decisions impossible). ans some groups may be more offended by something then you are. does that make them inherently wrong? well thats a difficult question especially when dealing with specific groups with histories of udnerrepresentation and abuse. anyway its complicated and getting to the point of more moral theory. | ||
|
Heartland
Sweden24602 Posts
| ||
|
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:10 neptunusfisk wrote: You don't understand? Ok why don't read the post then? It should explain perfectly why your russian "fakin chiter i beat u with stick" comments aren't on the same level as the massive wall of "SHOW TITTIES OR GTFO" that any girl recieves nvm my bad I thought you were arguing the other way.  I did read the original post and it made sense. guess I should have done that first. | ||
|
MadeOfCotton
Germany28 Posts
On March 09 2015 01:07 Nemesis wrote: It sounds like the average thing an average gamer(both female and male) goes through online. I have never been insulted because I am a man though. Being insulted and harrassed because of a certain unchangeable property (sexism, racism and homophobia seem to be the big ones there) is different than just being insulted because you did something stupid. Not that I approve of all the non-genderspecific flaming though... | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
I mean, i even think sometimes its the opposite. I play A LOT of MMOS, and i know im not the only one who has noticed that if someone says shes a woman, people will start giving them things, "proctecting them" agains guys that insult her, and in general treat them extremely well (we know why). A lot of girls take advantage from it. For example, kayceton. That girl sometimes get insulted, but she doesn't care, why? Becuase she uses the fact that shes a woman to become super famous. Most people that whatch her stream don't insult her, but even those who do she doesn't care because she wins thousands of dollars just because shes a woman and a lot of guys tream her well/donate etc, just because of that fact. So this can be seen either way. I think focusing on "girl suffer from toxicity" is a bad focuss, and its too narrow. People should not try to stop toxcicity towards girls, they should try to stop toxcicity towards all. | ||
|
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:17 [Phantom] wrote: I don't really see this as a problem. Yeah, there are guys who insult girls, with.."gril specific insults", instead of when the same boys instult other males with generic insults, but i don't think the toxicity is bigger. I mean, i even think its the countrary. I play A LOT of MMOS, and i know im not the only one who has noticed that if someone says shes a woman, people will start giving them things, "proctecting them" agains guys that insult her, and in general treat them extremely well (we know why). A lot of girls take advantage from it. For example, kayceton. That girl sometimes get insulted, but she doesn't care, why? Becuase she uses the fact that shes a woman to become super famous. Most people that whatch her stream don't insult her, but even those who do she doesn't care because she wins thousands of dollars just because shes a woman and a lot of guys tream her well/donate etc, just because of that fact. So this can be seen either way. I think focusing on "girl suffer from toxicity" is a bad focuss, and its too narrow. People should not try to stop toxcicity towards girls, they should try to stop toxcicity towards all. I think that might be more or a genre thing. for example I would guess that females get less abuse in mmos as compared to shooters and more directly player versus player games but I'm not sure(this is just a sort of gut feeling based on not a lot of data. and yes there's a few who take advantage of it but saying that that offsets the possible abuse is difficult without data. I think we need more large scale studies on relative levels of abuse for female and male gamers especially in similar games .right now I feel we're arguing more about theories and ideas based on our own assumptions than on actual facts which would seem to settle the argument of whether there's a discrepency. | ||
|
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On March 09 2015 04:33 oBlade wrote: The sex of a person is not logically connected to the truth value of what they say. Congratioulation that you have figured this out, I guess. And despite your anecdotal evidence, men also experience sexual harassment. Despite? I never claimed they dont. Sexism and sexual harassment are not unilaterally perpetrated by men against women. orly? Seriously, stop strawmanning. I never claimed the contrary. Would your mouth taste better if women said similar things as in this thread? Yes. I also would feel better if your post had an actual point | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:11 Velr wrote: i guess because they are girls and therefore insulting them is somehow worse? I don't get it either... Straw man argument. No one is saying that insulting girls is worse. The claim that the documentary seems to make (or at least, the claim the NYTimes is associating with the documentary) is that girls are targeted for being girls, and that this is bad. It seems like what the documentary seeks to offer is a glimpse of the experiences people have being both female and gamers. It is not clear why anyone who is not a woman should feel like they know exactly what women experience, assuming we accept that the experience of being a woman (in society) is different from the experience of being a man (in society). | ||
|
Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:41 RuiBarbO wrote: Straw man argument. No one is saying that insulting girls is worse. The claim that the documentary seems to make (or at least, the claim the NYTimes is associating with the documentary) is that girls are targeted for being girls, and that this is bad. And until they interview the trolls and determine their motives, they have failed at showing this is true. All they've shown is that trolls have learned sexist insults get reactions. | ||
|
Godwrath
Spain10141 Posts
This happens in real life too, i had received and insulted others while playing football (and sometimes the flame sparks and you end up punching each other), it's on the nature of competition, but internet communication allows for dick behaviours more easilly. And including more female game developers, gamers,coders, or whatever won't change the human behaviour on a competitive setting. I am really tired of this bullshit to be honest. It all sounds as propaganda to me this days. It's clearly so stupid, so out of touch and so unrelated to real issues (ie difference on salaries for women compared to men), that it actually accomplish the oppossite they want to. It just alienates people who already agree with equality. | ||
|
RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:44 Millitron wrote: And until they interview the trolls and determine their motives, they have failed at showing this is true. All they've shown is that trolls have learned sexist insults get reactions. I'm not sure you're stating the terms very accurately. First, until "they interview the trolls and determine their motives," they also have not shown that trolls only learned sexist insults to get reactions. According to your implication---that interviewing trolls is the only way to get meaningful data---we can't say anything about why trolls do what they do, and therefore neither interpretation---sexist motivation or general antisocial behavior---can be said to be true or false. Nor is it immediately clear why other forms of evidence are not valid unless you start begging the question (you assume your conclusion is true at the outset). Also the phenomenon of sexism does not only manifest by intention---often people reaffirm it without realizing it. Without watching the documentary, it's hard to say whether the evidence they have gathered reflects this kind of process or not. | ||
|
Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On March 09 2015 01:07 Nemesis wrote: It sounds like the average thing an average gamer(both female and male) goes through online. You've been called a slut and been threatened with murder-rape, forced impregnation, and forced late-term abortion? Sure you can say everybody gets insults thrown at them, but that's past the point of any meaningful generalization. | ||
|
Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On March 09 2015 06:07 Roe wrote: You've been called a slut and been threatened with murder-rape, forced impregnation, and forced late-term abortion? Sure you can say everybody gets insults thrown at them, but that's past the point of any meaningful generalization. Haven't been threatened forced with impregnation, but I'd wager 75%+ of people have been threatened with rape/murder in online games. | ||
|
Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
#womenaredead | ||
|
SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On March 09 2015 02:37 dravernor wrote: Don't reveal you're a girl, simple! . That's awful... I've been wary of these feministic clickbait articles since these dishonest gamer-gate crap. Most boys during their puberty are little shits. Deal with it. Competitive games bring out the worst in people. Deal with it. It's just so weird to me to come into a house, demand that people accomodate you and change so you feel welcome and if things don't go way, yell 'sexism'. I tried LoL. People were rude to be because I sucked. So I left. Why waste my time with toxic people if I can just go my merry way and let them have their little club? On March 09 2015 06:07 Roe wrote: You've been called a slut and been threatened with murder-rape, forced impregnation, and forced late-term abortion? Sure you can say everybody gets insults thrown at them, but that's past the point of any meaningful generalization. Just because I don't have a uterus, doesn't mean it's more or less acceptable to threaten to rape and murder me. I'm not being called a slut, but people call me faggot every time I play Protoss (not entirely unjustly). How is that different? | ||
|
oHInsane
France727 Posts
I don't mind if this documentary is focused on the woman harrasment and I think it's perfectly fine since it's a reality. Because some men experience it as well, we shouldn't be talking about that? I don't think so. When I look back in time, when I started playing online on sc1 (was like in 1999 I think), if you happened to not say gg at the end of a game, you were looked down as bad manner guy. And trust me,almost everyone was either silent and/or manner during a game. Nowadays, I often mute everyone, be it in League of Legends, CS:GO and even WoW cause it's getting to a point where it'sunbearable for me and I don' t think it's right. PLaying online means I should be able to interact with other players without the pressure of being harrassed every minute during a game. At some point, online community and developpers will have to set up some efficient measures concerning the behaviour of the players. I honnestly think it's too easy to harass with little to no consequences. Hope those kinds of documentaries will raise the awareness on that topic, be it for female, or male gamers. This documentary is focused on some women perspective and it's fine and i hope there will also testimonies for male or better, both male/female without distinctions. | ||
|
zeo
Serbia6342 Posts
On March 09 2015 05:11 Velr wrote: i guess because they are girls and therefore insulting them is somehow worse? I don't get it either... When people actually make careers out of perceiving oppression everywhere it should not come as much of a surprise the victim complex is strong among those people. @Karis Vas Ryaa about the generalizations I don't see how its a hasty generalization to say I personally have never seen someone flame a woman for being a woman before. Men get abused way more than women online, if the documentary or whatever was about trying to stamp out abuse against all people there would be no problem here. Do they think all women in the world are sheltered princesses too used to getting what they want and given free passes outside of a videogame that they are incapable of understanding social interactions within an anonymous environment? Women can fend for themselves just as good as men can online at least and turning them into special snowflakes does more harm than good. Actual harassment during psychical interactions (at these conventions) would be a problem and should be dealt with seriously. But we come back to the problem that the people doing the harassing (pre-teen and teen males/females) couldn't give less of a fuck how many documentaries and quasi-science blogs people write they will keep being dicks until they mature enough to stop being assholes. And then they become like us reading about how kids these days act like complete idiots. | ||
|
Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On March 09 2015 06:11 oHInsane wrote: Pretty interesting topic, since it comes up more and more often via various recent "incidents" in e-sport. Honnestly, I think the online environment have changed a lot through the years and it's getting so tough sometimes to play online and bear with all the trolls/ragers whatever you want to call them. I don't mind if this documentary is focused on the woman harrasment and I think it's perfectly fine since it's a reality. Because some men experience it as well, we shouldn't be talking about that? I don't think so. When I look back in time, when I started playing online on sc1 (was like in 1999 I think), if you happened to not say gg at the end of a game, you were looked down as bad manner guy. And trust me,almost everyone was either silent and/or manner during a game. Nowadays, I often mute everyone, be it in League of Legends, CS:GO and even WoW cause it's getting to a point where it'sunbearable for me and I don' t think it's right. PLaying online means I should be able to interact with other players without the pressure of being harrassed every minute during a game. At some point, online community and developpers will have to set up some efficient measures concerning the behaviour of the players. I honnestly think it's too easy to harass with little to no consequences. Hope those kinds of documentaries will raise the awareness on that topic, be it for female, or male gamers. This documentary is focused on some women perspective and it's fine and i hope there will also testimonies for male or better, both male/female without distinctions. You know you can mute the people you don't like, right? | ||
|
OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
| ||
| ||
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dqkZRFipZgg/UlpmV4DwFCI/AAAAAAAAAUI/JIWZhRo0Jds/s1600/petrie80.svg.png)
