|
On March 09 2015 06:07 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 01:07 Nemesis wrote:
It sounds like the average thing an average gamer(both female and male) goes through online. You've been called a slut and been threatened with murder-rape, forced impregnation, and forced late-term abortion? Sure you can say everybody gets insults thrown at them, but that's past the point of any meaningful generalization.
As opposed to being called a small dick little bitch, who takes it up the ass from big black men? lol. insults are insults.
mainstream media is too hung up on the "kind" of insults. it's a significant failure of the mainstream media to understand that online flame wars are all about inciting the biggest reaction they can from their online peers. If they know you're a female, guess what they're gunna aim at? the easiest target to incite a response. The fact that girl gamers are responding so harshly in mainstream media is playing right into trolls hand.
|
On March 09 2015 06:14 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 05:11 Velr wrote:
i guess because they are girls and therefore insulting them is somehow worse?
I don't get it either...
When people actually make careers out of perceiving oppression everywhere it should not come as much of a surprise the victim complex is strong among those people. @Karis Vas Ryaa about the generalizations I don't see how its a hasty generalization to say I personally have never seen someone flame a woman for being a woman before. Men get abused way more than women online, if the documentary or whatever was about trying to stamp out abuse against all people there would be no problem here. Do they think all women in the world are sheltered princesses too used to getting what they want and given free passes outside of a videogame that they are incapable of understanding social interactions within an anonymous environment? Women can fend for themselves just as good as men can online at least and turning them into special snowflakes does more harm than good. Actual harassment during psychical interactions (at these conventions) would be a problem and should be dealt with seriously. But we come back to the problem that the people doing the harassing (pre-teen and teen males/females) couldn't give less of a fuck how many documentaries and quasi-science blogs people write they will keep being dicks until they mature enough to stop being assholes. And then they become like us reading about how kids these days act like complete idiots.
while saying it by itself isn't but when you seem to use it as the sole basis for your conclusions it can be. as for men being abused this could be a sort of desinsitivity acquired over time. saying that because some people are okay with levels of abuse doesn't automatically mean said level of abuse should be acceptable.
It really comes down to why you believe that it's not a problem. if you believe that women don't get harrassed online solely based on your personal experiences with a single game than it is infact a hasty generalization
( unless you can prove that you both represent the entire spectrum of online games acccurately and that your hours played is sufficient enough lower the margin of erorr.)
but yeah I agree that the documentaries aren't likely to solve the problem but possibly they could get someone interested in learning more about it and seeing if there's a way to actually deal with the problem.
anyway I'm probably done in this thread since I have a lot of work to do. hope you at least understand where I'm coming from even if you don't necessarily agree.
|
On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +
Sexism and sexual harassment are not unilaterally perpetrated by men against women.
orly? Seriously, stop strawmanning. I never claimed the contrary.
That's not a strawman. My saying something does not automatically mean I am representing that you claimed the opposite. I am not putting words in your mouth. Now this is a strawman because it seems to misrepresent what's going on here:
On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:
a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems.
On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +Would your mouth taste better if women said similar things as in this thread? Yes.
If you study a TL census it shouldn't surprise you that most of the people posting here are men. It's really no great insight to point that out unless, for example, you thought sex was a credential in this discussion.
On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 04:33 oBlade wrote:
The sex of a person is not logically connected to the truth value of what they say. Congratioulation that you have figured this out, I guess. Despite? I never claimed they dont.
On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:
I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem.
On March 09 2015 04:04 Paljas wrote:
That doesnt change that I can feel safe as a male, but that (some) woman cant. How can you not see that this is problematic?
What exactly are you trying to say here?
|
On March 09 2015 06:23 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:14 zeo wrote:On March 09 2015 05:11 Velr wrote:
i guess because they are girls and therefore insulting them is somehow worse?
I don't get it either...
When people actually make careers out of perceiving oppression everywhere it should not come as much of a surprise the victim complex is strong among those people. @Karis Vas Ryaa about the generalizations I don't see how its a hasty generalization to say I personally have never seen someone flame a woman for being a woman before. Men get abused way more than women online, if the documentary or whatever was about trying to stamp out abuse against all people there would be no problem here. Do they think all women in the world are sheltered princesses too used to getting what they want and given free passes outside of a videogame that they are incapable of understanding social interactions within an anonymous environment? Women can fend for themselves just as good as men can online at least and turning them into special snowflakes does more harm than good. Actual harassment during psychical interactions (at these conventions) would be a problem and should be dealt with seriously. But we come back to the problem that the people doing the harassing (pre-teen and teen males/females) couldn't give less of a fuck how many documentaries and quasi-science blogs people write they will keep being dicks until they mature enough to stop being assholes. And then they become like us reading about how kids these days act like complete idiots. while saying it by itself isn't but when you seem to use it as the sole basis for your conclusions it can be. as for men being abused this could be a sort of desinsitivity acquired over time. saying that because some people are okay with levels of abuse doesn't automatically mean said level of abuse should be acceptable. but yeah I agree that the documentaries aren't likely to solve the problem but possibly they could get someone interested in learning more about it and seeing if there's a way to actually deal with the problem.
The one thing I can think of you can do is to stop making games that pander to the dumbest demographics. Who plays Call of Duty? Stupid, loud-mouthed highschoolers. Who flings insults, both sexist and otherwise, online? Stupid, loud-mouthed highschoolers.
Compare the amount of flaming you get in serious games, like for instance IL2: Battle of Stalingrad with the amount you get in garbage like Call of Duty. You get so little in IL2 because it's a more serious game that is not appealing to the loud-mouthed morons who throw insults.
tl;dr Want kinder players? Stop playing games stupid people play.
|
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way.
|
Why do they get to hog my gaems!?!
I do agree that with the people in this thread saying that "girl gamers" are overreacting. What I mean is that they're a lot newer to this stuff, so they're not desensitized to things yet. Most guys who play games with chat functions or mic already know what to expect and are used to this stuff, but women aren't really.
|
Well its not really the sole basis, I wasn't trying to convey that it never happened, just much less than these documentaries and articles would lead you to believe. Its like all women are always being abused and its just not correct in my experience.
I mean, what do you do to a 14 year old saying 'come here bitch, lemme put some baby juice in you'?
- send them a link to an article explaining how that kind of language in unacceptable
- politely tell them they are being insensitive and to check their privilege
- you are 14, you don't have any baby juice
- mute, report and get on with your life
Does anyone here think that a 14 year old that would actually say something like that would in any way change their behavior in the slightest after that match? Even if they get muted/banned?
edit: grammer
|
On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way.
you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it.
It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning.
If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm.
|
On March 09 2015 06:38 zeo wrote:
Well its not really the sole basis, I wasn't trying to convey that it never happened, just much less than these documentaries and articles would lead you to believe. Its like all women are always being abused and its just not correct in my experience.
I mean, what do you do to a 14 year old saying 'come here bitch, lemme put some baby juice in you'?
- send them a link to an article explaining how that kind of language in unacceptable
- politely tell them they are being insensitive and to check their privilege
- you are 14, you don't have any baby juice
- mute, report and get on with your life
Does anyone here think that a 14 year old that would actually say something like that would in any way change their behavior in the slightest after that match? Even if they get muted/banned?
edit: grammer
okay that makes sense. and yeah there's not a whole lot you can do. except maybe try to get better report system(although that can be difficult). as I said before I really have no idea how prevalent it actually is. anyway now I'm really leaving to get stuff done.
|
On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm.
No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks.
Edit: My second point goes the opposite way, when players try to be overly "nice" and that makes for uncomfortable situations.
|
On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks.
I'd wager that men would also report fewer insults than they actually receive. Mostly because the whole "sticks and stones" idea is really strongly ingrained in men.
|
On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks.
Wanna know how to deal with it? Get thicker skin. lol.
Everyone just wants to be fucking cuddled so hard now a days. Dunno why people take random voices online and act as if the world is crumbling down because some random neckbeard called you a cumguzzling slut.
guess what? EVERYONE is called a cumguzzling slut online, regardless of being female or male. lol.
If people think CoD community is "bad", they should have played on CS servers back in the day, at least back then their insults were more intelligent.
|
People who think girls don't get it worse than guys in the overall gaming culture have their head in the sand. It only gets furthered by the [non-gaming related] concept that girls are somehow more sensitive than guys. "You need to get used to it." or "You're not desensitized yet." ...that argument sounds a lot like the 14 year old everyone else is supposed to ignore. Somehow people have confused "not a big deal" or "I don't actually care about that" with "that isn't true."
Disclaimer: I'm considerably older than the average user on this (or any other gaming) forum. I'm also married with a daughter, so I will tend toward the defensive position of topics like this much more so than other guys. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but I do think it is a perspective that is largely lacking in places like this.
|
On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks. Edit: My second point goes the opposite way, when players try to be overly "nice" and that makes for uncomfortable situations.
There was some study about online harassment a bit ago. Can't remember exactly what it covered, I think it was mostly social networks and media or whatever.
Results were that everyone gets harassed fairly equally. Females tend to get more female targeted insults than men get male specific insults. The (slight) majority of insults females receive are from other females, and the same for men insulting men.
|
On March 09 2015 06:52 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks. Wanna know how to deal with it? Get thicker skin. lol. Everyone just wants to be fucking cuddled so hard now a days. Dunno why people take random voices online and act as if the world is crumbling down because some random neckbeard called you a cumguzzling slut. guess what? EVERYONE is called a cumguzzling slut online, regardless of being female or male. lol. If people think CoD community is "bad", they should have played on CS servers back in the day, at least back then their insults were more intelligent.
Maybe there's a consensus that the world will be a better place if people stop treating each other like shit all the time.
I guess stopping people from being shitty to women is a start, that's half the problem solved right there. Encouraging people to just put up with it is just encouraging the behaviour, I don't see the logic in that.
|
On March 09 2015 06:56 asymptotech wrote:
People who think girls don't get it worse than guys in the overall gaming culture have their head in the sand. It only gets furthered by the [non-gaming related] concept that girls are somehow more sensitive than guys. "You need to get used to it." or "You're not desensitized yet." ...that argument sounds a lot like the 14 year old everyone else is supposed to ignore. Somehow people have confused "not a big deal" or "I don't actually care about that" with "that isn't true."
Disclaimer: I'm considerably older than the average user on this (or any other gaming) forum. I'm also married with a daughter, so I will tend toward the defensive position of topics like this much more so than other guys. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but I do think it is a perspective that is largely lacking in places like this.
Online culture in general is toxic as fuck, nothing is going to change that. Have you seen the pervasive racism online? God forbid you're any race. Even if you're white, you get made fun of due to it. The only reason sexism is even more prevalent online, is because people RESPOND to it. The more defensive you get, the more derisive it gets.
On March 09 2015 07:00 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:52 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks. Wanna know how to deal with it? Get thicker skin. lol. Everyone just wants to be fucking cuddled so hard now a days. Dunno why people take random voices online and act as if the world is crumbling down because some random neckbeard called you a cumguzzling slut. guess what? EVERYONE is called a cumguzzling slut online, regardless of being female or male. lol. If people think CoD community is "bad", they should have played on CS servers back in the day, at least back then their insults were more intelligent. Maybe there's a consensus that the world will be a better place if people stop treating each other like shit all the time. I guess stopping people from being shitty to women is a start, that's half the problem solved right there. Encouraging people to just put up with it is just encouraging the behaviour, I don't see the logic in that.
maybe it's just a cultural thing from being chinese, but it's far easier to deal with your own behavior than it is to deal with others.
|
i think a lot of it has to do with the different ways males talk when in all male or mixed groups. i think most here will agree that whenever they are in a stressfull situation they tend to do a lot more yelling, swearing and insulting when no women are around. the same goes for direct criticism, it will probably tend to be a lot more direct and personal when its targeted towards a man. with online gaming being male dominated women are exposed to the kind of talks males do among themselves and that is not generally considered as very nice. put the anonymity on top of that and you have a very hostile environment in which males have no troubles moveing around because its what they know and what they expect, but for females its very strange and unknown.
i think most heavily male dominated fields have a general tone that makes women feel extremly uncomfortable. doesnt matter if its gaming or cooking.
|
On March 09 2015 07:00 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:52 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:48 Slaughter wrote:On March 09 2015 06:43 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 06:35 Slaughter wrote:
I think something to consider and to look into is if females get more crap thrown at them then males. My personal experience of gaming across multiple platforms has been tame as fuck compared to a fair amount of my female peers. It just always seemed to be that they got more harassment then males but it would be interesting to a study on how much either gender gets.
Its also is important to point out that "trolls" that people are constantly talking about are only a small part of the problem. Besides the obvious pure vitrol that is encountered by people is the form that a lot of people overlook. A more "milder" kind of attention that a person does not want from the "normal" playerbase. People bring up females who might have used this to gain some kind of advantage or better treatment but lets flip that and think of the people who don't want extra attention. So a person will be like "oh but im being nice!" when your making the other party uncomfortable. Then those people turn around and label them a bitch because they didn't respond to their unwanted and unsolicited "nice guy" praise. You can't deny that a large amount of male gamers will act differently one way or another if they know the other party is female and not in a good way. you're getting to hung up on the "type of shit", that's being flung. online anonymous people fling insults at EVERYONE. If sexist insults gets your panties in a bunch, guess what happens? they're gunna keep using it. It's the same for anyone on the internet, not just females. There's no winning. If you're black, everyone starts making watermelon jokes, and shit. If you're mexican, ton of border jumping jokes. If you're asian, small dick jokes. If you're gay, all the penis in butt jokes. If you're transgender, cross dress jokes. It's the nature of anonymous gaming culture to insult anything they can. If you're a cis white male? guess what? your mom's been fucked by everyone else last night. That's just how online culture is, female based insults is nothing different from the norm. No, notice how I said it would be interesting to see the comparison between the amount of crap said to people between males and females. I bet if such a study were done the latter would have more negative experiences then the former, and that would be the main problem. The topic of toxicity is a big problem overall, but no one seems to know how to effectively deal with it because its hard to stop human nature of being dicks. Wanna know how to deal with it? Get thicker skin. lol. Everyone just wants to be fucking cuddled so hard now a days. Dunno why people take random voices online and act as if the world is crumbling down because some random neckbeard called you a cumguzzling slut. guess what? EVERYONE is called a cumguzzling slut online, regardless of being female or male. lol. If people think CoD community is "bad", they should have played on CS servers back in the day, at least back then their insults were more intelligent. Maybe there's a consensus that the world will be a better place if people stop treating each other like shit all the time. I guess stopping people from being shitty to women is a start, that's half the problem solved right there. Encouraging people to just put up with it is just encouraging the behaviour, I don't see the logic in that.
Most of the time when people don't get a response, they just stop. Because people don't like talking to walls.
|
On March 09 2015 05:23 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:
a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems. Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:Would your mouth taste better if women said similar things as in this thread? Yes. If you study a TL census it shouldn't surprise you that most of the people posting here are men. It's really no great insight to point that out unless, for example, you thought sex was a credential in this discussion.
The point wasnt that the posters were men, but what kind of opinions they hold as men.
But yes, the gender of a person is relevant in this discussion (dunno if i would say "credential). I never claimed that it isnt.
On March 09 2015 06:32 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 05:23 Paljas wrote:On March 09 2015 04:33 oBlade wrote:
The sex of a person is not logically connected to the truth value of what they say. Congratioulation that you have figured this out, I guess.
And despite your anecdotal evidence, men also experience sexual harassment.
Despite? I never claimed they dont. Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:
I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 04:04 Paljas wrote:
That doesnt change that I can feel safe as a male, but that (some) woman cant. How can you not see that this is problematic? What exactly are you trying to say here?
I strictly talked about it from my perspecitve and clearly presented it as nothing but anecdotal
It was merely a point to show my own motivations. I dont think I pretended otherwise.
|
On March 09 2015 06:20 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 06:07 Roe wrote:On March 09 2015 01:07 Nemesis wrote:
It sounds like the average thing an average gamer(both female and male) goes through online. You've been called a slut and been threatened with murder-rape, forced impregnation, and forced late-term abortion? Sure you can say everybody gets insults thrown at them, but that's past the point of any meaningful generalization. As opposed to being called a small dick little bitch, who takes it up the ass from big black men? lol. insults are insults. mainstream media is too hung up on the "kind" of insults. it's a significant failure of the mainstream media to understand that online flame wars are all about inciting the biggest reaction they can from their online peers. If they know you're a female, guess what they're gunna aim at? the easiest target to incite a response. The fact that girl gamers are responding so harshly in mainstream media is playing right into trolls hand.
You're saying things are the same when I think the details of their differences are factually important
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
