|
I don't think anyone says that being an asshole to people is a nice thing. And in a situation with people where i will spend more than 30 minutes with someone, after which i never see them again, i might even be motivated to mention this if someone is being an asshole.
But i don't see it as my job to teach 14 year old boys how not to be an asshole to random people over the internet (Which is probably impossible for anyone not physically in that guys room anyways). So when i play a game in my free time, and someone is an asshole, i mute them as soon as they start being assholes, and suddenly they are no longer my problem. This is the behaviour i would suggest to everyone. Pretty much every single game has some sort of mute button. The first time someone says something stupid, press it. You are going to spend 30 minutes in a match with that guy, and then never see them again.
Note that my point is NOT that being an asshole is good, or that i wouldn't be happy if people stopped being assholes to other people. I just see no feasible way to change the behaviour of assholes, and my hobby is playing video games, not socially educating teenagers.
I'd highly prefer if people just realized that people are still people on the internet, and treated them accordingly. But it is not in my (or pretty much anyones except that persons parents) power to do anything about it, and thus i choose the next best thing: Not interacting with them at all using the wonderful technology of the mute button. This is something that needs to be taught to more people on the internet. You are not powerless against abuse. You can press the mute button, and never hear a single word that person says again.
Do not interact with assholes. There are a lot of people on the internet, and you can freely choose who has the power to talk to you. Choose to interact with those who are not assholes, leave the assholes to themselves.
|
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
|
or own a lot of cats.
Whoa, since when is bad to have kittens?
|
And here is one more reason why this subject is ridiculous: women are far crueler to each other than men are to them.
|
On March 09 2015 09:43 MadeOfCotton wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 09:29 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 09:23 MadeOfCotton wrote:On March 09 2015 09:00 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 08:33 MadeOfCotton wrote:
can we at least agree that threatening to rape someone is a bad thing?
I agree that of course these threats arent meant seriously in the vast majority of cases (maybe even in all cases), but still. I refuse to accept this behavior as something that should just be tolerated. it's banter, people literally playing games about killing other people, in terrible ways. all of a sudden the "r" word is said, everyone loses their mind now? The point is, while for some it might be just banter, others might be seriously hurt by that, and I think they have good reason. And there certainly is a difference in what happens on the game level and on an interpersonal level, we are pretty good at recognising that killing someone in a game isnt real - but when someone threatens to rape or kill us, while rationally its clear they are not serious, emotionally it might not be as clear. I really don't buy the "its the internet so everyone can say whatever they want no matter what it means to other people" argument, or the "grow a thicker skin" one. Its like telling someone who just got punched that its his fault that it hurts. I am not losing my mind, or want to censor anyone, or say that all gamers are sexist or anything like that. I just think discussions like these might help towards a more civilized and friendly communication in the internet. Admittedly this hope is far fetched, and we are talking really long term (like some decades maybe), but one may dream, right? Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. If you are hurt by harsh language, it is your own fault, especially online where you can just mute or block people you don't like. Thats just not true. This attitude is exactly the problem here. There are some people you can just ignore if they are insulted, but others just get straight up hurt. And the one responsible is definitely not the victim. You might have a point for the usual "idiot" insults, but sexism is on a different level. Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 09:33 travis wrote:
Well, I really don't know what you are talking about. Who is "we" ? I don't think I know anyone other than little kids that think that kind of behavior is acceptable. Maybe there are just a lot more little kids on the internet than i realized. And I probably misinterpreted your original comment, so sorry about that. If we agree that this kind of behavior is unaccaptable then I'm happy 
How is sexism on a different level? Before you jump to conclusions that I'm some unassailable tough-guy, know that I'm physically handicapped, and have heard plenty of vile bullshit in person even, not just online. "Sticks and stones" is absolutely true. I don't let it bother me, so it doesn't.
Sure, it'd be nice if people weren't assholes, but the kind of people who are aren't going to read some study or watch some documentary you link them to. There is nothing you or I can do to stop them save muting them or ignoring them.
|
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
How about we let women have their own conversation about the harassment they face, which as per the documentary, they are.
|
On March 09 2015 10:16 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. How about we let women have their own conversation about the harassment they face, which as per the documentary, they are.
Ok, then I don't know what you want from us. TL has vastly more male users than female users. This thread is pretty pointless if you don't want men participating.
|
On March 09 2015 10:16 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. How about we let women have their own conversation about the harassment they face, which as per the documentary, they are.
By all means. My only concern is that too many people are barking up the wrong tree.
|
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
|
heh, getting so sick of this anita sarkeesian et al sorta crap
insults in online gaming is nothing new, if you don't have thick enough skin for it then go find another hobby
P.S. - the best way to shut down the haters? prove yourself a better gamer.
|
alternately, we could just do something to cut down on incivility online in general.
Though I suspect the profit motive would make it hard to do that, given how many customers it would annoy.
|
On March 09 2015 10:26 zlefin wrote:
alternately, we could just do something to cut down on incivility online in general.
Though I suspect the profit motive would make it hard to do that, given how many customers it would annoy.
One good alternative is to move away from matchmaking and back to dedicated servers. So if someone is being an asshole to you, you can just go to a better-moderated server. The more often people see the same gamertags, generally the less often they will be horrible dicks.
|
Exactly. The problem with this discussion is that there is apparently a lot of people think that i am responsible for the behaviour of a teenage asshole, just because i happen to play the same game as he does.
I try my best not to be an asshole to people. I think that for the most part, i succeed. Just because i enjoy playing video games, and some assholes also enjoy playing video games, does not mean that i am in any way responsible for them being assholes to other people.
Usually this stuff tends to be phrased something like "Gamers are sexist assholes" or "The gaming community is sexist and racist (and probably some more ists)". I find this annoying because i am a gamer, and part of some online gaming communities (like this one for example), and i do not find it fair to be thrown in the same bucket as the teenage asshole who spouts all sorts of sexist, racist, bigoted and whatever else slurs he can come up with. This is the main problem with these issues, especially in the non-gaming community it tends to be discussed in very broad strokes.
I do not like assholes, and i would prefer if they were not assholes. But it is neither my responsibility nor my fault or within my power to stop them from being assholes. Most people in gaming know that there are a lot of assholes, and have found ways of dealing with them. Usually this involves using a mute button or just ignoring what they say. Now people from outside the gaming community come in, have not yet learned these necessary survival strategies, and conclude from the loudmouthed minority upon the silent majority of people who simply don't want to deal with that shit and have learned the necessary strategies to not do so. And then everyone gets thrown in the same bucket and just because i am a gamer i also get viewed as an asshole, just because some gamers are assholes.
This is annoying.
|
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
|
On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
Why not?
|
On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
|
The abuse that women get online may be considered worse because it attacks them for what they positively identify with (femininity), while insults directed at males are usually aimed at denying their masculinity. I'm not sold, but let's say it is worse for women: the same is true for racist and homophobic abuse. And so? They deal with it. I deal with all sorts of shit that I would never tolerate in real life when I am online. Suicidal people get told to kill themselves. These people know they won't be held accountable, so they go for the most high-impact thing they can think of. In a competitive game we deal with these behaviours by reporting and muting people. It is not complicated.
What is a film going to do? It's just a money grab playing on a collective victim complex.
|
On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
|
On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
|
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
