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There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace.
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On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
Yep, it really is about as simple as I laid out. What women are feeling is irrelevant. All that matters is the cause of male gamer behavior. Young men are dicks. Welcome to the jungle.
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On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace.
We're not saying just sit there. Go ahead and block them. Go ahead and play on a better server. But if you can't work out how to do either of these things, you'll get no sympathy from me.
This documentary isn't dealing with anything except the creator's desire for easy money. It's clickbait garbage.
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On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
...
People just want to play games in peace.
And it is hard to do so if gaming comes attached with duty, responsibility, and guilt over the actions and feelings of others. Those are precisely the things that it is pleasant to escape from with gaming.
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On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
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I've never understood the abuse quite honestly. My first experience playing with a girl gamer was when I joined my first clan in UT2003. She was co-leader, and she would always beat my ass in 1v1. I had nothing but respect for her (and a little resentment for those beatings  ).
Furthermore, the banter, ribbing and shit talking I've experience online and in games when there aren't any girls around is just as fierce, provocative and (depending on how thick your skin is) offensive in the highest regard - but being abused because of what you have between your legs (or not) is daft as hell.
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On March 09 2015 10:59 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace. We're not saying just sit there. Go ahead and block them. Go ahead and play on a better server. But if you can't work out how to do either of these things, you'll get no sympathy from me. This documentary isn't dealing with anything except the creator's desire for easy money. It's clickbait garbage.
That's so hypocritical though. "Do something about it! -No not that, you did that thing so I'm going to call you out on it."
They wanted to make a documentary so they did. Like if it's shit who cares? Shit movies are made everyday probably in the hundreds. Even if it's not shit who cares? They wanted to do something- they did something. People do that a million times a day. Get over it.
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idk about you guys but i learned to flame in heroes of newerth where it was a friendly greeting at the start of the game to talk shit about your teammates mmr and say "gg we fucking lost because we have this autist over here" after someone picked the wrong hero, and it only got more intense as the game went on.. it got to the point where people would have to rely on their wit to shittalk well, because emulating others simply wouldn't cut it when the norm was balls to the wall flaming regardless of how the game was going. it's the same as dota2.. the shit talking never actually means anything to any sane person, it's just the culture of the game, it's a sort of bonding experience. nothing annoys me more than people in ranked who yell "MUTED" because they can't hang with los cabróns.. it's actually to the point where i'll only play low priority because i can't stand people in ranked matches. It's ironic that the people who "aren't toxic" end up ruining games more than the "toxic" peruvians that NA hates so much.
ANYWAYS, coming from HON, articles like this make me laugh.. making fun of her thigh size hurt her feelings? that's like an amorous comment between a carry and a support on good terms in HON. oh well, some people just can't hang with peruvians.
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On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace.
The moderation on this forum ALREADY EXISTS. Report functions in online games ALREADY EXIST. Mute functions in games with microphone support ALREADY EXIST.
Your attitude facilitates an agenda that has nothing to do with equality and teaches girls/women that they are entitled to special treatment in every area of their lives and that every problem they encounter is the result of their gender (when the reality is that everybody is in the same boat). It's a narrative that is exceptionally unhealthy for both genders.
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On March 09 2015 11:07 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace. The moderation on this forum ALREADY EXISTS. Report functions in online games ALREADY EXIST. Mute functions in games with microphone support ALREADY EXIST. Your attitude facilitates an agenda that has nothing to do with equality and teaches girls/women that they are entitled to special treatment in every area of their lives and that every problem they encounter is the result of their gender (when the reality is that everybody is in the same boat). It's a narrative that is exceptionally unhealthy for both genders.
My attitude is to try and make things better? I didn't say anything more than that. None of those things that exist have always existed. At some point someone made them to make things better.
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On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
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On March 09 2015 11:05 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:59 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace. We're not saying just sit there. Go ahead and block them. Go ahead and play on a better server. But if you can't work out how to do either of these things, you'll get no sympathy from me. This documentary isn't dealing with anything except the creator's desire for easy money. It's clickbait garbage. That's so hypocritical though. "Do something about it! -No not that, you did that thing so I'm going to call you out on it." They wanted to make a documentary so they did. Like if it's shit who cares? Shit movies are made everyday probably in the hundreds. Even if it's not shit who cares? They wanted to do something- they did something. People do that a million times a day. Get over it.
The problem isn't that the documentary is bad, it is that it's exploitation. They are making money on the victim complex progressives have instilled lately about girl gamers.
If it was hosted for free on a site with no ads, I'd be A-OK with it.
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On March 09 2015 11:11 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:05 Logo wrote:On March 09 2015 10:59 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace. We're not saying just sit there. Go ahead and block them. Go ahead and play on a better server. But if you can't work out how to do either of these things, you'll get no sympathy from me. This documentary isn't dealing with anything except the creator's desire for easy money. It's clickbait garbage. That's so hypocritical though. "Do something about it! -No not that, you did that thing so I'm going to call you out on it." They wanted to make a documentary so they did. Like if it's shit who cares? Shit movies are made everyday probably in the hundreds. Even if it's not shit who cares? They wanted to do something- they did something. People do that a million times a day. Get over it. The problem isn't that the documentary is bad, it is that it's exploitation. They are making money on the victim complex progressives have instilled lately about girl gamers. If it was hosted for free on a site with no ads, I'd be A-OK with it.
How is it more exploitation than any contemporary film, show, or documentary that conveniently comes out when an issue is a hot topic or in the forefront of culture?
Plus who are "The Progressives"? You make it sound like some sort of organized group of some sort rather than a label of people's beliefs which is pretty disingenuous.
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On March 09 2015 11:05 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:59 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:54 Logo wrote:
There's a pretty shitty attidue in this thread regardless of the topic. "There are going to be assholes so forget doing anything to diminish their presence and attitude" sounds terrible. Why have leaver penalties in DotA2 or try to prevent hacking in Starcraft? We dealt with that stuff back in BW and DotA1. Why moderate this form? We're all used to sites like 4chan with no moderation. None of this line of reasoning makes any sense. You can draw whatever lines in the sand you want I really don't care, but it sounds idiotic to tell people to just sit there, shut up, and take it; And that's what people are saying, it's not even saying "deal with it" because what you see here [with this documentary] are people dealing with it how they choose to.
You may not be an asshole yourself, but if you're going to just try and act like everyone should have to put up with abuse instead of doing something about it you at least sound like one. People just want to play games in peace. We're not saying just sit there. Go ahead and block them. Go ahead and play on a better server. But if you can't work out how to do either of these things, you'll get no sympathy from me. This documentary isn't dealing with anything except the creator's desire for easy money. It's clickbait garbage. That's so hypocritical though. "Do something about it! -No not that, you did that thing so I'm going to call you out on it." They wanted to make a documentary so they did. Like if it's shit who cares? Shit movies are made everyday probably in the hundreds. Even if it's not shit who cares? They wanted to do something- they did something. People do that a million times a day. Get over it.
My problem is that these documentaries and editorials are sensationalist and perpetrate negative stereotypes based on falsehoods. So yeah, I call them out on the bullshit because what I think they are doing is a negative thing for the world, and I don't want them to get money for it.
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On March 09 2015 11:02 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through. His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender. It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer behavior towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
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On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
Someone in an online game who you will never see or hear from again in 20 minutes saying they'll rape you is not a big deal. It's not like they said it in person, to your face.
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On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
you're the one coming into the conversation telling how men should talk? see how this conversation is going?
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On March 09 2015 11:15 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:02 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through. His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender. It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society. I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
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On March 09 2015 11:18 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:15 xDaunt wrote:On March 09 2015 11:02 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 Sandvich wrote:On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it. So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through. His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender. It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society. I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else. Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
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On March 09 2015 11:16 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2015 11:09 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:51 wei2coolman wrote:On March 09 2015 10:48 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:38 Millitron wrote:On March 09 2015 10:34 levelping wrote:On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive... I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem". So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you? Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm. If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet. I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less. Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet. you're the one coming into the conversation telling how men should talk? see how this conversation is going?
Yes it is going in a facetious circle because I presume you don't really have anything substantial to say on the main point - that women are best placed to discussed issues facing women, and not us men who lack the same perspective.
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EPT
