On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
It doesn't even matter if it's different. The argument that it's not different as a deflection is just a bullshit way to deflect all discussion on the topic. No one is going to receive all types of abuse so they're only going to be able to speak about the types they do receive.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Then you can make the same argument about whether bad behavior towards men is different from general bad behavior, or bad behavior towards any other subset of gamers. In which case this becomes a pretty boring conversation, because none of us can have any input on anything anyone else says.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
I would like to butt in and say the answer to this question is absolutely no! And the mindset you are proposing is a common defense for a lot of of victim mentality bullshit that causes silly political correctness and irrational sensitivity. "You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be me!". Uh, yes I can. It's not that hard. I know what it feels like to be scared or insulted and I am capable of applying perspective to a situation.
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
I would like to butt in and say the answer to this question is absolutely no! And the mindset you are proposing is a common defense for a lot of of victim mentality bullshit that causes silly political correctness and irrational sensitivity. "You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be me!". Uh, yes I can. It's not that hard. I know what it feels like to be scared or insulted and I am capable of applying perspective to a situation.
I'm not claiming that men have no role to play in this conversatoin. But what many posters here are saying is that men are in a position to say that hey this is not a problem, suck it up. This is just plaining dismissing the concerns of an entire segment of the population, on the basis of your own impression of the situation.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question.
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently.
That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question.
We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal.
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently.
That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue.
I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes. You could imagine how hopeless it feels when I'm against a guy who's the same size as me, but clearly outranks me in skill. It's like slowly drowning, with nowhere to go, until you're force to tap. And guess what the "tap" means? It means BANG, you're dead.
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently.
That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue.
except heres the big thing, it is not in person. How exactly do you expect some angry 14 year old to rape anyone over the internet. It's an empty threat, like me threatening to blow up the Earth.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
I would like to butt in and say the answer to this question is absolutely no! And the mindset you are proposing is a common defense for a lot of of victim mentality bullshit that causes silly political correctness and irrational sensitivity. "You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be me!". Uh, yes I can. It's not that hard. I know what it feels like to be scared or insulted and I am capable of applying perspective to a situation.
I'm not claiming that men have no role to play in this conversatoin. But what many posters here are saying is that men are in a position to say that hey this is not a problem, suck it up. This is just plaining dismissing the concerns of an entire segment of the population, on the basis of your own impression of the situation.
Your logical fallacy is to believe woman are a subset of population that deserves special treatment; because we are not woman whe cannot criticize them. If there was an identical thread made by "latin gamers" (I'm latin) I would also tell them to suck it up. Morever, if a group called "fat gamers" whinned in the same way I can assure you no one would say "you cannot criticize them because you are not fat" simply because it does not make any sense from a logical standpoint.
How many times have you seen peruvian mocking on online gaming or this thread alone?
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently.
That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue.
The new crop of girls are the ones being fed that they can have it all and are demanding preferential treatment (disguised as equality). When girls have an issue, they immediately get instant attention.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
I would like to butt in and say the answer to this question is absolutely no! And the mindset you are proposing is a common defense for a lot of of victim mentality bullshit that causes silly political correctness and irrational sensitivity. "You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be me!". Uh, yes I can. It's not that hard. I know what it feels like to be scared or insulted and I am capable of applying perspective to a situation.
I'm not claiming that men have no role to play in this conversatoin. But what many posters here are saying is that men are in a position to say that hey this is not a problem, suck it up. This is just plaining dismissing the concerns of an entire segment of the population, on the basis of your own impression of the situation.
Well firstly, compared to the people who are putting the claims forward, we are more likely to be impartial(i personally have nothing to gain from this opinion), and we also have more expertise. Also, it's not really the concerns of an entire segment of the population. How many girl gamers are they polling? How many girls that game professionally have they asked opinions from? Not many, because lots of them have the same opinions on this that I do. Finally, I think I am allowed to disagree with any individual or group regardless of how many people it is if I think I am right. Are they allowed to defend their opinions? Sure. I will gladly have discussion with them if I have the time and care.
I like your attitude though. Not sarcastic, I mean that.
I am black, and when someone online tells me that the cops are gonna shoot me for being a + Show Spoiler +
useless darkie
, I could be offended because statistically it can happen. I'd rather not though. Once I realized these people had no psychic powers and could not influence this event, there's not really much point to what they're saying. I guess I am in a position where I can understand what "girl gamers" are feeling, but again, it's just easier to ignore. Even if I do face discrimination in real life every now and then (and this is from Canada ffs) it's important to be able to separate the internet from real life, especially in a society where the internet is becoming more and more integral to our lives.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question.
We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal.
What kind of emotions do women feel that men cannot?
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question.
We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal.
My whole point is that what women are feeling, quite frankly, is irrelevant. The reason many male gamer find this whole topic insulting is because the obvious implication is that male gamers are a bunch of misogynistic pigs who are singling out women for insult and ridicule. This implication is ludicrous for all of the reasons already discussed. Focusing on the issue from the perspective of what women are feeling only fuels this narrative, which is why I am rejecting it outright.
On March 09 2015 10:21 Dark_Chill wrote: And trying to get men out of these conversations seems really counter-intuitive...
I definately agree men have a role to play in the discussion. BUt that role isn't saying "this isn't a problem".
So men only belong in the conversation if they agree with you?
Seems totally fair and rational to me /sarcasm.
If you're coming into a conversation about problems faced by women, just to say that you as a man, magically know how they are feeling and that it isn't a big deal, then yes, please keep quiet.
I don't think anyone here has claimed that. If anything most of the comments have been towards maybe how they should feel less.
Well, if you're going to come into a conversation to tell women how they should feel about receiving rape threats (not a big deal at all!), then yeah I don't think you're helping either and can keep quiet.
lol. i've been playing online video games for a long time, kiddo. I've had people tell me they're gunna get the biggest blackest dildo and shove it up my pooper, all while spitroasting my mother as she rotates on their ginormous dong. I've heard it all. (fyi, i'm not a gurl gamerz)
Okay - but as a man, have you ever been in a situation where someone who is physically larger and stronger than you could have forced himself on you? And where you probably could not physically fight back? Probably not. I've gotten rape/cancer/mom/murder insults online too, but the difference between me and a girl is that I know that this is highly unlikely to happen in real life since I could probably fight back against the assualter. Were I a girl, who in real life would have experienced the real fear of being raped, then obviously I would receive the same virtual insults very differently.
That's one reason why I don't really see how men can dismiss this as "not a big deal", and think that the newer crop of girl gamers discussing this issue should be given the benefit of the doubt and their space to discuss this issue.
I do bjj 5 times a week. There are girls who weigh 80lbs less than me that choke me out, and armbar me regularly. Lol so yes.
I am sure that these girls are reflective of the general female population as generally being able to choke out guys. Okay.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
I would like to butt in and say the answer to this question is absolutely no! And the mindset you are proposing is a common defense for a lot of of victim mentality bullshit that causes silly political correctness and irrational sensitivity. "You can't possibly imagine what it's like to be me!". Uh, yes I can. It's not that hard. I know what it feels like to be scared or insulted and I am capable of applying perspective to a situation.
I'm not claiming that men have no role to play in this conversatoin. But what many posters here are saying is that men are in a position to say that hey this is not a problem, suck it up. This is just plaining dismissing the concerns of an entire segment of the population, on the basis of your own impression of the situation.
Your logical fallacy is to believe woman are a subset of population that deserves special treatment; because we are not woman whe cannot criticize them. If there was an identical thread made by "latin gamers" (I'm latin) I would also tell them to suck it up. Morever, if a group called "fat gamers" whinned in the same way I can assure you no one would say "you cannot criticize them because you are not fat" simply because it does not make any sense from a logical standpoint.
How many times have you seen peruvian mocking on online gaming or this thread alone?
I don't see how being respected online is special treatment. If there are other groups being bullied, then sure they are more than welcomed to start their own discussions on how homophobia, racism etc are unhealthy elements on gaming culture. Also fatness and being a woman are conceptually different things, and I am sure we can all get behind that.
On March 09 2015 10:06 xDaunt wrote: Christ, the heroes in this thread....
I have been an online gamer for about as long as online gaming has been a thing (I know what a MUD is). There is absolutely nothing special or noteworthy about the harassment that women receive online. The simple truth is that hormone-ridden young males are dicks and are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to being dicks to other people. This fact isn't even limited to online interactions. It just happens to be worse online due to the nature of the forum. If anything, singling out the harassment that women receive is demeaning to women in that it implies that they are lesser than men in being incapable of handling it.
So you have kept track of harassment of male vs. female gamers and have found that they receive an equal proportion of hate across all games? I think it's absurd to think that you know what the simple truth is for female gamers without being one, or without seeing into every online interaction female gamers go through.
His argument is that little kids being offensive over the internet is a non-issue regardless of the recipient gender.
It's like feeling offended because home dogs bark at you while you walk in the street. No, it's like demanding the government does something about it cause you don't like barking, it's just too much, we live in a free society.
I am not saying that gamers being dicks is a non-issue. All that I am saying is that it is a mistake to interpret bad male gamer towards women as being any different than the bad behavior directed towards anyone else.
Don't you think that the question of whether bad behaviour towards women is different from general bad behaviour, is something that women are best placed to answer? They would know the "women-speicfic" insults, in addition to the general rudeness.
Absolutely not. Men understand men far better than women do.
But this isn't a problem about male bad behvariou in isolation - if that were the case then sure, men are probably the experts. It is how male bad behaviour is received by women, and so what matters much more (imo) is the women's perspective since they are the ones that would be the subject of harassment (on top of general internet rudeness).
Correct me if I am wrong, but no male is disputing what women purportedly are feeling. We are only explaining that the behavior that is causing said ill feelings is unrelated to the fact that the objects of the behavior are women. We are best equipped to answer that question.
We don't know/understand how women are feeling. That's why it is very presumptious for us to say that this isn't a big deal.
My whole point is that what women are feeling, quite frankly, is irrelevant. The reason many male gamer find this whole topic insulting is because the obvious implication is that male gamers are a bunch of misogynistic pigs who are singling out women for insult and ridicule. This implication is ludicrous for all of the reasons already discussed. Focusing on the issue from the perspective of what women are feeling only fuels this narrative, which is why I am rejecting it outright.
But don't you see how presumptious it is for a man to say how women feel about rape threats is irrelevant? A rape threat to a man and a rape threat to a woman obviously has to be understood in difference contexts, even if it is an online one.
EPT
