'GTFO', New Documentary about Female Gamers - Page 2

On March 09 2015 03:44 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Because insulting the fact that you're a man gets no reaction from you.

Online trolling and raging has very little to do with who you are, and everything to do with what will get a response from you.

On March 09 2015 04:04 Paljas wrote:

That doesnt change that I can feel safe as a male, but that (some) woman cant. How can you not see that this is problematic?


How do you know?

On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:

I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Like I said, dravernor has probably a better perspective on this issue, so I would appreciate if she could share and explain her thoughts.

In general, threads like this one leave a bad taste in my mouth: a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems.

On March 09 2015 04:19 zeo wrote:

"feel safe"

I've had a guy give me his home address, told me to come there and fight him in real life. We and one more guy flamed each other the whole early and middle game, by the time we got to late game all that voice chat actually made us coordinate really well and we won the game. Spoke really normal post game.

Just get over it. I've seen a lot of women in my games and I'm sure there are plenty more who like me have just kept their mouth shut about anything unrelated to the actual game they are playing and not once has a woman been harassed for being a woman. I've been asked if I was a chick a couple of times because I usually have a Lana Del Rey pic as my avatar, and every time some guy thought I was a girl they were really nice.

I have 1,800 hours in DOTA and have really never seen women be abused. Did this girl from the documentary go around being as obnoxious as possible and bait retards into flaming her? I don't get it.

On March 09 2015 04:26 Cyro wrote:
Some online games, call of duty right near the top of the list are infamous for huge amounts of abuse no matter who you are. You often can't play 5 games of league these days without being told to kill yourself, guy or girl.

Meanwhile in the games like EVE known for their mature playerbase (average player age close to 30) there are actually quite a lot of girls (by comparison to most other MMO's and multiplayer games) and very little drama about it

there is lots of abuse specifically because you are female (that's one of a huge list of stuff for random online abuse), but also a huge amount of preferential treatment that many people don't really see.

The interviewees in “GTFO” and “GameLoading” offer possible remedies for the industry: more female coders and game creators,

and a wider range of female characters;

more peer pressure on the small minority who ruin things for everybody;

and more women attending gaming events — as horrible as many of these events may be for female attendees now.

How many women decided not to enter because they’ve had bad experiences, or didn’t even know about it, because there wasn’t any marketing of it for them?

On March 09 2015 03:24 RuiBarbO wrote:


I'm pretty sure that sexual harassment is still sexual harassment regardless of whether the person is genuinely a misogynist or just a general asshole.

On March 09 2015 03:39 Paljas wrote:

I have never gotten abused for being male. That someone feels that they have to hide their gender to feel safe makes me believe that there is a problem. Like I said, dravernor has probably a better perspective on this issue, so I would appreciate if she could share and explain her thoughts.

In general, threads like this one leave a bad taste in my mouth: a bunch of men assuring themselves that sexism and sexual harassment are not problems.

On March 09 2015 04:33 oBlade wrote:

That would be great but it's dependent on the choices of individuals about what they do with their lives. Also if I remember correctly transgender people are disproportionately represented in game development.

This is a total non-issue and I feel crazy when other people don't react the same way. The characters in a work of fiction should be the farthest worry from anybody's mind. Games are fiction and they're fictional characters. It's like complaining that Quake negatively portrays Strogg. Besides which it has nothing to do with the actual interesting subject of online harassment. It's just grasping at straws to find things that resemble problems to get people talking and get pageviews as travis figured out.


This sounds great, let social forces figure things out organically.

This sounds like it's overstated, I don't go to any events but I doubt it's the same atmosphere as playing Call of Duty online or something. Besides which it's again down to individual choices and interests. They didn't really get this point as you can see with this line:



It seems disingenuous to frame this so simply as sexual harassment, sexual harassment is kind of broad and has degrees of gravity, from verbal harassment, to say like sexual coercion or getting fired from your job. If online name-calling isn't fundamentally motivated by what sex anybody is, but it's just caused by someone being an asshole and latching onto whatever traits they can target...? This includes racial and homophobic slurs and anything else youthey can think of. Is "sexual harassment" really the best framework to understand what's going on here?


The sex of a person is not logically connected to the truth value of what they say. And despite your anecdotal evidence, men also experience sexual harassment. Sexism and sexual harassment are not unilaterally perpetrated by men against women. Would your mouth taste better if women said similar things as in this thread?

in regards to EVE its probably because the game is so confusing and requires so much patience. I'm a 21 year old college student with an upwards of 3.5 gpa and I played for like 2 weeks and quit because I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. so people who tend to flame would probabyl just quit. (not sure what this has to do with anything actually and I have no idea why I brought it up)

On March 09 2015 04:39 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:


Just want to say that there's a lot of research as to why their isn't more female representation in math, science and coding etc. and (among other things) a lot of it has to do with teachers subconsciously favoring boys instead of girls in those subjects. so it's not like everything is even. and a lot of even in the way it's tought has to do with it. here's an article if anyone's interested https://web.stanford.edu/dept/psychology/cgi-bin/drupalm/system/files/cdweckmathgift.pdf

there's also this and a bunch of others. http://energy.gov/diversity/downloads/reports-and-publications-women-and-girls-stem

also i think we can all agree that making vieo game players less toxic in general would be a good idea regardless of who its aimed at.

On March 09 2015 04:55 Millitron wrote:

I think any effort spent worrying about how mean CoD players are is wasted effort that could've been better spent fighting the sleazy business techniques modern companies use. Day-1 DLC, forever-beta, buggy messes being released for $60, sequels that are little more than expansion packs being sold for $60, and rampant casualization are all way bigger issues to me than what insults some 14 year old flings on xbox live.

On March 09 2015 04:57 castleeMg wrote:
either way if you play online games you're gonna get told "fuck you" or something else abusive more than once no matter what gender you are.. it makes me sort of angry that someone wrote up a report like its an exclusive female problem... its just the nature of the online gaming community no matter which game you want to play.. am i so wrong for actually getting mad that this person thinks its an exclusively female problem? its a universal problem but there's no way to effectively control it so deal with it and enjoy your time.

On March 09 2015 01:05 travis wrote:
I really don't think the immature kids that talk to girl gamers like this are going after girl gamers. I think they are being dicks to everyone. Most guys, especially ones over 12, LOVE to have girls that play their games too.

In general this "defend girl gamers!" thing is ridiculous. Everyone has to deal with the shitty little immature trolls, not just girls.

The majority of this journalism on girl gamer equality is only a way for the producers of this content to make money. Which is why I didn't click the link.

On March 09 2015 05:03 neptunusfisk wrote:
Ok so let's quote this brilliant blog post http://iangent.blogspot.se/2013/10/the-petrie-multiplier-why-attack-on.html

"Let's say that we have 20% women and 80% men in Tech. And that 20% of people make inappropriate remarks or other sexist moves towards people of the opposite gender. So 20% of men make sexist remarks to women, and 20% of women make sexist remarks to men.

Let's start with 50 people. Here's a picture, where the darker squares are people who make sexist remarks and the lighter circles are people who don't. Pink is for men, and blue for women. Given the 20% ratios, we have 40 men and 10 women, and 8 of the 40 men sometimes make sexist remarks towards women, while 2 of the 10 women make sexist remarks to men. I can't emphasise enough that there is no difference in sexism between the genders.

Now we'll let some sexist remarks start flowing. I'll indicate this by an arrow from one of the dark square boxes to one of the people of the opposite gender.

The first one is a man (near the bottom), being sexist towards a woman (near the top). The second is a woman on the right being sexist to a man. The lengths of arrows have no significance, but are just chosen by the graph layout program.

Let's see what happens when we have had 70 sexist remarks made.



The luckiest man receives zero sexist remarks. But in fact he doesn't need to be very lucky, because most men receive no remarks. There is an unlucky guy (bottom right) who receives three sexist remarks, as it happens from the same woman. That is not acceptable, and she should stop. But that's the unluckiest guy out of 40.

The luckiest woman receives four sexist remarks. So let's get this straight: the luckiest woman out of 10 experiences worse sexism than the unluckiest man out of 40.

Of course it gets worse. The unluckiest woman experiences nine incidents. On average? The mean number of sexist remarks per man is 0.35, while for women it is 5.6. There's a gender disparity of 4:1 but the disparity in experience is 16:1.

Men are no more sexist than women in this thought experiment, but women's experience is sixteen times worse than the men's."

On March 09 2015 05:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:


I don't understand why you're showing this. I mean I agree with the conclusions it draws but I don't really see what your trying to show? obviously we have a 2 fold problem with this situation, the misrepresentation of percentages and the fact that everyone's racist. I think both should be dealt with