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On April 27 2017 02:58 bardtown wrote:
It's not only bad for 'money', as I explained. But also, it must be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where money and trade are in no way related to people's livelihoods. Then to suggest that we are being obnoxious by fielding dozens of ships to pick up those migrants, with the Italians now claiming that charities are colluding with people smugglers to pick up even more...
Must also be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where you vote for governments which maintain unequal North-South relationships, bomb foreign countries, let conflicts rot because they don't want to upset doubtful allies, support tyrants or close their eyes as long as big business gets its part, sign free trade deals to flood Southern economies with subsidized products which kill their agriculture/industry, enslave them with obnoxious debt, do nothing about global warming, and then snivel when some people who can no longer live in their own countries take the roads. Maybe there would be less immigration if there was less imperialism and neocolonialism. History laughs at those who deplore the effects whose cause they cherish
On April 27 2017 03:10 Shield wrote:
Why do you want even more muslim refugees? Do you think they would have treated you decently if you were a refugee in the Middle East? Or, are you going to respond with "we're better than that!"? Yeah, at the expense of a nation.
1) I want nothing, people are here, so one has to act
2) Stop reducing human beings to their religion or skin color
3) Odds are you wouldn't even want Christian refugees either, so stop being hypocritical. Just say you want none of them
4) Yeah, you have to treat others the way you'd like to be treated in a similar situation, that's basic human reciprocity
5) Greedy, idiotic ruling classes do far more harm to nations than a few people of color
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On April 27 2017 03:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 02:58 bardtown wrote:
It's not only bad for 'money', as I explained. But also, it must be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where money and trade are in no way related to people's livelihoods. Then to suggest that we are being obnoxious by fielding dozens of ships to pick up those migrants, with the Italians now claiming that charities are colluding with people smugglers to pick up even more... Must also be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where you vote for governments which maintain unequal North-South relationships, bomb foreign countries, let conflicts rot because they don't want to upset doubtful allies, support tyrants or close their eyes as long as big business gets its part, sign free trade deals to flood Southern economies with subsidized products which kill their agriculture/industry, enslave them with obnoxious debt, do nothing about global warming, and then snivel when some people who can no longer live in their own countries take the roads. Maybe there would be less immigration if there was less imperialism and neocolonialism. History laughs at those who deplore the effects whose cause they cherish Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 03:10 Shield wrote:
Why do you want even more muslim refugees? Do you think they would have treated you decently if you were a refugee in the Middle East? Or, are you going to respond with "we're better than that!"? Yeah, at the expense of a nation. 1) I want nothing, people are here, so one has to act 2) Stop reducing human beings to their religion or skin color 3) Odds are you wouldn't even want Christian refugees either, so stop being hypocritical. Just say you want none of them 4) Yeah, you have to treat others the way you'd like to be treated in a similar situation, that's basic human reciprocity 5) Greedy, idiotic ruling classes do far more harm to nations than a few people of color
I'm actually happy with Christian refugees. You don't know me, so don't speak on my behalf.  I've not employed you to be my assistant.
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On April 27 2017 03:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 02:58 bardtown wrote:
It's not only bad for 'money', as I explained. But also, it must be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where money and trade are in no way related to people's livelihoods. Then to suggest that we are being obnoxious by fielding dozens of ships to pick up those migrants, with the Italians now claiming that charities are colluding with people smugglers to pick up even more... Must also be wonderful to live in your fantasy world where you vote for governments which maintain unequal North-South relationships, bomb foreign countries, let conflicts rot because they don't want to upset doubtful allies, support tyrants or close their eyes as long as big business gets its part, sign free trade deals to flood Southern economies with subsidized products which kill their agriculture/industry, enslave them with obnoxious debt, do nothing about global warming, and then snivel when some people who can no longer live in their own countries take the roads. Maybe there would be less immigration if there was less imperialism and neocolonialism. History laughs at those who deplore the effects whose cause they cherish Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 03:10 Shield wrote:
Why do you want even more muslim refugees? Do you think they would have treated you decently if you were a refugee in the Middle East? Or, are you going to respond with "we're better than that!"? Yeah, at the expense of a nation. 1) I want nothing, people are here, so one has to act 2) Stop reducing human beings to their religion or skin color 3) Odds are you wouldn't even want Christian refugees either, so stop being hypocritical. Just say you want none of them 4) Yeah, you have to treat others the way you'd like to be treated in a similar situation, that's basic human reciprocity 5) Greedy, idiotic ruling classes do far more harm to nations than a few people of color
You don't know who I vote/d for. You don't know me, so don't speak on my behalf. I've not employed you to be my assistant.
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What's wrong with opening a kebab shop? If only British people were as entrepreneurial.
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Discussing refugee crisis would be easier without people who claim that muslims come to Europe to "wear burqa, refuse to integrate and open kebab shops" and people who say right wingers don't want to help actual war refugees living in camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.
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Shield, you live in the UK, do you not? How many muslims there have you met that wears a burqa and refuse to integrate?
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You tend not to 'meet' them as such, because they're not allowed to interact with you. But I see them fairly regularly.
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On April 27 2017 03:49 Sent. wrote:
Discussing refugee crisis would be easier without people who claim that muslims come to Europe to "wear burqa, refuse to integrate and open kebab shops" and people who say right wingers don't want to help actual war refugees living in camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.
It'd be easier without people who never give one thought about integration and the rights of the native population to determine their own immigration or refugee policy, and also lie about the numbers and racism of people that think differently than them, but we're not in that world either. You'd better get used to dialoguing with people, period, without whining about people included in the discussion.
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LMAO
as if burquas are a problem. we've 30 times more hardcore neo nazi Reichsbürger in this fucking country than women wearing a full veil. With the former integration into society is hardly feasible, they do not acknowledge the state and so on.
And you tell me those women are all oppressed and need to be liberated? Go on dreaming.
99,985% of German muslims (i.e. everyone of muslim faith who lives here) are unveiled.
[capslock] And you want to tell me that the full veil is a problem of muslims in this country.
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Who are you even talking to?
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Artisreal, PM me the next time 'hardcore neo nazis' drive a truck through a Christmas market.
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On April 27 2017 04:12 bardtown wrote:
Who are you even talking to?
shield of course
On April 27 2017 04:15 SoSexy wrote:
Artisreal, PM me the next time 'hardcore neo nazis' drive a truck through a Christmas market.
Whatever this has to do with women's rights and veils. I don't get the connection.
if you want to discuss terrorism in the name of Islam and veiled women, I think you're on pretty thin ice.
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On April 27 2017 04:16 Artisreal wrote:shield of course Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 04:15 SoSexy wrote:
Artisreal, PM me the next time 'hardcore neo nazis' drive a truck through a Christmas market. Whatever this has to do with women's rights and veils. I don't get the connection. if you want to discuss terrorism in the name of Islam and veiled women, I think you're on pretty thin ice.
What you say...
or maybe that terrorism stems from the same mindset of that part of Islam who wants women to go around in burqas. And don't even try to shake the hand of a man you don't know. The contradiction is strong: we allow a dehumanizing garment because people are afraid of appearing as 'dehumanizers' if they discuss the issue.
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It's always terrorism. Twenty minutes ago people were talking about refugees in Jordan but now we're back to the Christmas markets. Although the systemic issues of migration are barely related, at least in the context of how to manage this global situation.
The International Migration Organisation projects that 200 million people will be refugees in 2050, many due to climate issues that are barely preventable. But yes let's talk about 100 people dressed in funny veils, that's what's going to do us in.
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Pretty sure that is a cultural problem based on specific communities. Women get groped on the subway in the US by all races and religious groups. Islam isn’t the defining factor for that issue.
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That's funny bardtown, I hardly ever see a burqa, except those shopping in Oxford Street, or in Luton (a commuter town with an airport) for some reason. On the other hand nearly every muslim woman I have ever met (assuming all Pakistanis and Turkish and Malaysian and Egyptian and Persian and other countries of majority muslim, which is a stretch but you get the idea) are bilingual and can converse intelligently in English. Where the heck do you live that you see the opposite?
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On April 27 2017 04:21 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2017 04:16 Artisreal wrote:On April 27 2017 04:12 bardtown wrote:
Who are you even talking to? shield of course On April 27 2017 04:15 SoSexy wrote:
Artisreal, PM me the next time 'hardcore neo nazis' drive a truck through a Christmas market. Whatever this has to do with women's rights and veils. I don't get the connection. if you want to discuss terrorism in the name of Islam and veiled women, I think you're on pretty thin ice. What you say... or maybe that terrorism stems from the same mindset of that part of Islam who wants women to go around in burqas. And don't even try to shake the hand of a man you don't know. The contradiction is strong: we allow a dehumanizing garment because people are afraid of appearing as 'dehumanizers' if they discuss the issue.
Fundamentalism and fanatism are two different things
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Nyxisto, people are being stoned to death over 'funny veils'. Even the muslim countries that I considerate moderate banned it (such as Morocco, which banned it in January 2017). Why can't we just agree that the burqa is a disgrace to human freedom all over the world?
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On April 27 2017 04:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That's funny bardtown, I hardly ever see a burqa, except those shopping in Oxford Street, or in Luton (a commuter town with an airport) for some reason. On the other hand nearly every muslim woman I have ever met (assuming all Pakistanis and Turkish and Malaysian and Egyptian and Persian and other countries of majority muslim, which is a stretch but you get the idea) are bilingual and can converse intelligently in English. Where the heck do you live that you see the opposite?
I never said I see the opposite. I just said I see women in burqas fairly regularly, which I do. Obviously I see far more hijabis.
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On April 27 2017 04:27 SoSexy wrote:
Nyxisto, people are being stoned to death over 'funny veils'. Even the muslim countries that I considerate moderate banned it (such as Morocco, which banned it in January 2017). Why can't we just agree that the burqa is a disgrace to human freedom all over the world?
We should protect women’s freedom by passing laws on what they can and cannot wear. In the culture you are trying to change, you are passing a law that impacts the least powerful members of that culture and does not empower them in anyway. Good plan.
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EPT
