EPTit's pretty clear that there are good reasons to believe that the NSA was involved in the latter on the matter of eurocopters and eads
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 114
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
it's pretty clear that there are good reasons to believe that the NSA was involved in the latter on the matter of eurocopters and eads | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/6/6662/1.html | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
in contrast, airbus has actually been trained by the french government to spy on the content of trade negotiations and product technology. | ||
|
RvB
Netherlands6263 Posts
| ||
|
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
so sentences like "it was justified in that incident (EADS)" implys that that was the whole thing the NSA spied on. i think you cant make that statement. as of now we know one thing, about 40.000 "selectors" were send by NSA, these selectors were against german and european interest. thats official. what these selectors did include we do not know, you always talk like you know what the NSA does. Accept that not even your own fucking politicians do know what the NSA does. the head of NSA lied repeatedly when the congress asked him about what the NSA does with american data. so just think for a minute, if the NSA lied what they did to their own people, do you really think ANYONE knows what they do to their foreign "friends" and "enemys"? im sure that this is not even a concern to the US government. intelligence agencys like they exist today are undermining every democracy. there are only two options 1. your politicians know and controll every move the NSA does -> then you are the evil empire 2. your politicians only know the surface of what NSA does -> then they operating outside the law and undermining democracy this btw does not only apply to the NSA, right now this applys to as good as all intelligence agencys in europe and america. both options are not good. | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
as for dsge spying plenty of public sources on it. as far as 'pretending to know everything' about this incident, i did not. only pointing out that from what the media has reported, it seems like a narrow activity concerning EADS and eurocopter, and this is likely a security related move. | ||
|
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
you found an incident where spying was, in your opinion, justified, and now the topic is over for you?! i dont think you really get what was happening, and whats the problem | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
as far as privacy and surveillance goes, it is my position that any reasonable position must acknowledge legitimate law enforcement and security interests | ||
|
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the NSA having the capacity for espionage was never in dispute, so revelation that the NSA could have spied on european govt and corporate activity is not an actual piece of news. the specific incident cited for EADS subsidiary eurocopter is very likely a counter-espionage effort with legiitmate security justification in military technology proliferation. i'm not seeing much ground for outrage here. | ||
|
Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
| ||
|
phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
the problem here is that the NSA did not do the spying, the BND did it for the NSA, and believe it or not, i want that the BND operates inside the german law, which obviously didnt happen here. the same as i want that the NSA operates inside the american law, which it also not did in the past, and probably not doing still. this should concern you. agencys which are not properly controlled by your elected officials. | ||
|
Makro
France16890 Posts
having to work against your own interest, damn | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:30 phil.ipp wrote: from your position, as an american, you are right this is not something that should cause more outrage than what NSA normally does - which seems ok for you. the problem here is that the NSA did not do the spying, the BND did it for the NSA, and believe it or not, i want that the BND operates inside the german law, which obviously didnt happen here. the same as i want that the NSA operates inside the american law, which it also not did in the past, and probably not doing still. this should concern you. agencys which are not properly controlled by your elected officials. uh where has the nsa violated american law in this particular case? On April 29 2015 02:20 Nyxisto wrote: the nsa is literally 100 times bigger than the bnd, that seems a little large for counter measures yes but the likely situation here is that the NSA is concerned with proliferation of technology from the french company towards potentially hostile entities. | ||
|
Noizhende
Austria328 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:52 oneofthem wrote: uh where has the nsa violated american law in this particular case? yes but the likely situation here is that the NSA is concerned with proliferation of technology from the french company towards potentially hostile entities. hostile to whom? | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
| ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:58 WhiteDog wrote: This bullshit lol. The US is concerned about making money, and acquiring technology, whatever the meaning - like any other country in the world. It's not antiamericanism, it's just realism. but it is also true that american corporations are generally technology leaders and the u.s. is mainly concerned about fair dealing in international trade deals. hostile to whom? iran is an example of directly hostile regime with which EADS has had dealings in military technology. china is a potential adversary involved in the same. | ||
|
WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:00 oneofthem wrote: but it is also true that american corporations are generally technology leaders and the u.s. is mainly concerned about fair dealing in international trade deals. iran is an example of directly hostile regime with which EADS has had dealings in military technology. china is a potential adversary involved in the same. And you think you stay first by respecting rules and staying classy ? Come on, this is economic war. China is stealing the shit out of everyone they can, europe might do the same, and the US too. That's it. The US just got busted. | ||
|
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
| ||
| ||
