EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 83
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Anyways, that article is a confused mish mash. It has a lot of words that doesn't say much to a British observer. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On May 28 2016 04:10 Shield wrote: I thought it was fair that I can't vote in EU referendum because I'm not British, but then I've heard about some Australians who live in the UK and are able to vote just because they're from the Commonwealth countries or something like that. How are Australians even remotely European? They shouldn't have a say just like the rest of us who aren't British. Because in British law people from other commonwealth countries technically are not foreigners, but I don't think they are automatically allowed to vote, I think they must have to have been in the UK for quite a while. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On June 01 2016 15:45 Zaros wrote: Because in British law people from other commonwealth countries technically are not foreigners, but I don't think they are automatically allowed to vote, I think they must have to have been in the UK for quite a while. I believe people from the commonwealth, Ireland and Malta can vote if they're resident in the UK, which could technically be the day they arrive. | ||
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DrCooper
Germany261 Posts
I don't see why Britain would want to leave, "take back control" - over what? Immigration? They already have a great deal of control, and if Britain left it's not like there would be no immigrantion to and from Britain. Trade? Britain will still have to comply with EU regulations if they want to sell goods to Europe, which they will. If somebody wants to give me a few points I'd be glad, I genuinely don't know why there are so many advocates for Brexit. | ||
KwarK
United States44195 Posts
On June 04 2016 18:37 DrCooper wrote: As someone from Germany, this strikes me as very odd. People blame the EU for domestic issues instead of the parties in power. This is like a football team who isn't doing so well blaming the premier league instead of the coach and management. I don't see why Britain would want to leave, "take back control" - over what? Immigration? They already have a great deal of control, and if Britain left it's not like there would be no immigrantion to and from Britain. Trade? Britain will still have to comply with EU regulations if they want to sell goods to Europe, which they will. If somebody wants to give me a few points I'd be glad, I genuinely don't know why there are so many advocates for Brexit. Regarding immigration, the common market intrinsically means free movement of EU citizens. A lot of people are upset by a lot of non European immigrants and get confused about the difference between Bangladeshis and Poles and think that leaving the EU will stop the Bangladeshis. There's also a "they're stealing our benefits aspect". Again, not necessarily true but still a factor in the decision for many people. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
The EU experiment has been a monumental failure for all bar Germany (no other EU country can match Germanys manufacturing productivity and Germany keeps the Euro currency too strong for them to compete) and now even Germany is seeing severe strain with the migrant issue. Anti EU parties are rising all over Europe, more countries will have this vote.The debt problems in Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain have not been solved, nor will they ever be under the Euro.We are watching the dying days of the EU experiment. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit | ||
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KwarK
United States44195 Posts
So as outdated as it may seem the true test for "has the EU failed" is really "are the Germans goosestepping across the Rhine?". If they're not, well, that's a good day. Similarly on the economy, "are we devoting most of our economic output to defeating Germany?". If no, well, that's a great day. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
On June 08 2016 23:45 KwarK wrote: The primary and most important role of the EU experiment has always been to entangle the economies of France and Germany so as to make another European war undesirable. That was the stated aim of the foundation of the EU back when it was the European Coal and Steel Community. These days the idea that we'd need an organization to keep Germany and France from each others' throats is laughable, the two countries don't really have any cause for conflict. But 70 years ago they seemed destined to clash over and over again, tearing Europe apart each time. The prevailing thought was that Germany would always seek to dominate Europe militarily and only foreign occupation (which incidentally is still ongoing) and demilitarization would forcibly prevent it. It is within that context that the ECSC was founded and with the aim of ending that cycle, not increasing economic growth or anything else. So as outdated as it may seem the true test for "has the EU failed" is really "are the Germans goosestepping across the Rhine?". If they're not, well, that's a good day. Similarly on the economy, "are we devoting most of our economic output to defeating Germany?". If no, well, that's a great day. NATO does the same thing surely but i would argue NATOs sabre rattling toward Russia is a far more serious threat than any possible internal war between nations in Europe. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On June 04 2016 18:37 DrCooper wrote: As someone from Germany, this strikes me as very odd. People blame the EU for domestic issues instead of the parties in power. This is like a football team who isn't doing so well blaming the premier league instead of the coach and management. I don't see why Britain would want to leave, "take back control" - over what? Immigration? They already have a great deal of control, and if Britain left it's not like there would be no immigrantion to and from Britain. Trade? Britain will still have to comply with EU regulations if they want to sell goods to Europe, which they will. If somebody wants to give me a few points I'd be glad, I genuinely don't know why there are so many advocates for Brexit. I've always had great respect for Germany, and I think Germany should be the example here. Do you really want to tell me EU is bad for the UK? Let me point out that Germany is strong EU supporter, it has higher GDP than the UK and is not having a referendum to leave. Just please don't mention refugees in Germany because they're not even European! Yes, some EU leaders made mistakes last summer but you still have border control over non-EU immigration. I honestly don't trust such polls when they're so close. You saw what happened to the Scottish referendum. I guess we just need to wait until 23rd June. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9950 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
Questions Who has the momentum? Which side appears more enthusiastic? What direction are those 65+ leaning? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4429 Posts
On June 11 2016 02:12 Zaros wrote: now the labour vote is turning to leave as well Hardly surprising.What is sad though is how spineless Corbyn is by now publicly backing remain.Observe this HuffPost article he wrote last year.... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn/greece-economy_b_7688576.html “[If] Greece leaves both the eurozone and the EU its future would be uncertain, but at least it could be its own. … There is no future for a usurious Europe that turns its smaller nations into colonies of debt peonage.” And again, this time from 1993.... http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1993-05-20a.389.4 “I am sure that [Labour MPs] will vote against the Maastricht treaty again tonight, primarily because it takes away from national Parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers” | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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