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On September 02 2012 23:16 Testuser wrote:
No, I don't think so. It can easily ruin someones life, and those benefiting of it could be helped in other ways.
It's difficult for it to ruin someones life because of it's lack of addictive properties and the negative effects on your health, even when binged on, are negligent. People who use it to cope with things and use it constantly as a result would in far worse condition if they drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes, or over ate instead (these are common coping mechanisms). The rule you have to take to heart here is, any substance is bad for you in large amounts. In moderation they can be highly beneficial.
Those benefiting from it have tried many other things and they've failed. We're talking chemotherapy patients here, and people with crohns disease, and people with violently ill stomachs. They have no other options.
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On September 02 2012 23:09 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 22:34 Th1rdEye wrote:On September 02 2012 22:31 Equity213 wrote:On September 02 2012 22:26 leveller wrote:On September 02 2012 22:24 J_Slim wrote:
Another situation where people think it's fine for the government to limit someone else's personal freedom.
"Keep government out of my business! But make sure gays can't marry, weed is illegal, and the uterus is public property!"  There you go, freedom in a nutshell (or is that bombshell) Agreed. Its ironic. I really only see two consistent positions here: all drugs should be legalized, or all drugs should be illegal (including alcohol/tobbacco). How are you gunna allow someone to smoke a joint, but then throw them in a rape cage for mushrooms. Once you start down that slope you see that stopping at marijuanna is arbitrary. No one wants to do mushrooms consistently and it's literally poisoning your body. Also, its not even in the same class of drugs. Ive taken mushrooms many times and it's been quite awhile since i've done them. Mushrooms are an example of one drug that possibly could be legalized as well.. but all drugs? Your logic is flawed... you could say the same about crack cocaine and heroin. The fact of the matter is marijuana is shown to benefit us in more ways than one... This is so wrong, most INDEPENDENT studies show that the bad sides of marijuana severely outweigh the good ones if a any. The last one done in the UK on regular teen smokers show an irreversible loss of IQ. Memory loss and attention problems are also verified side effects. I'm for legalization, you should have the right to smoke weed if you want to. But don't spread misinformation.
Which is why no one is advocating for selling weed to minors.It's actually laughable that they waste money on these types of study's in the first place.You give ANY kind of substance in excess to a still developing adolescent it will cause permanent damage.If that's not obvious to people than I don't know what to say.
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On September 02 2012 23:09 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 22:34 Th1rdEye wrote:On September 02 2012 22:31 Equity213 wrote:On September 02 2012 22:26 leveller wrote:On September 02 2012 22:24 J_Slim wrote:
Another situation where people think it's fine for the government to limit someone else's personal freedom.
"Keep government out of my business! But make sure gays can't marry, weed is illegal, and the uterus is public property!" There you go, freedom in a nutshell (or is that bombshell) Agreed. Its ironic. I really only see two consistent positions here: all drugs should be legalized, or all drugs should be illegal (including alcohol/tobbacco). How are you gunna allow someone to smoke a joint, but then throw them in a rape cage for mushrooms. Once you start down that slope you see that stopping at marijuanna is arbitrary. No one wants to do mushrooms consistently and it's literally poisoning your body. Also, its not even in the same class of drugs. Ive taken mushrooms many times and it's been quite awhile since i've done them. Mushrooms are an example of one drug that possibly could be legalized as well.. but all drugs? Your logic is flawed... you could say the same about crack cocaine and heroin. The fact of the matter is marijuana is shown to benefit us in more ways than one... This is so wrong, most INDEPENDENT studies show that the bad sides of marijuana severely outweigh the good ones if a any. The last one done in the UK on regular teen smokers show an irreversible loss of IQ. Memory loss and attention problems are also verified side effects. I'm for legalization, you should have the right to smoke weed if you want to. But don't spread misinformation.
The problem here actually not being weed or it being legal or not, or harmful or not. It's about FREE market policies. People seem to have forgotten what the free market as an ideal was originally about, the possibility to supply public demand of anything there could be demanded, even if it is a minority and even if it is unwanted by large parts of society. Nowadays free market means, you can do whatever the fuck you want, as long as you got money. But let's keep this out of here, no need for Keynesians and their friends to show up, to destroy what has been a beautiful discussion for many pages now, with their nonsense about things nobody is even able to get a little grasp of understanding of.
If we restrict market policies to what is publicly accepted and what is not, why are we still having a big time market for weapons, which don't just provide you with the means to kill yourself in a matter of milliseconds, but other people as well and just as quickly. Tell me about a recreational drug which is able to do that. Even if I'd forcibly inject you an overdose of heroine, you wouldn't die as quickly as when I'd point a gun to your head and pull a trigger, even little girls are able to use.
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On September 02 2012 23:16 Testuser wrote:
No, I don't think so. It can easily ruin someones life, and those benefiting of it could be helped in other ways.
I understand this opinion. I really do. However, can you understand why I think having it illegal is still the worse option? People are still doing it, only now we have massive crime, police resources, lives ruined by the justice system...
Instead of spending money, government could earn money from legalizing it. And at the same time regulating it somewhat.
It could still be discouraged, just like alcohol. Have age limits, etc. Even make i illegal to have large amounts. Only, why should an average person be afraid to light one up when he is hurting noone?
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On September 02 2012 22:58 eu.exodus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 22:55 TheKefka wrote:On September 02 2012 22:50 eu.exodus wrote:On September 02 2012 22:17 leveller wrote:On September 02 2012 22:04 eu.exodus wrote:On September 02 2012 22:00 leveller wrote:Listen, the thing people need to understand is that even though it's bad for you (it is! at some level, debateable vs alcohol, tobacco etc), it is better to have it legal. People will still use it This means organized crime gets the profits instead of government taxing the product like alcohol and tobacco this also means police resources will get spent hunting people who are not hurting anyone This also means lots of young people will have their lives ruined by getting a criminal record for inhaling smoke It also means people who want to smoke weed will get into contact with criminals and other drugs, meaning that being illegal is the only thing that makes cannabis a "gateway drug". Wow!  Sure seems like we could benefit from having it legal right? OMG exactly this. The biggest reason why weed is a "Gateway drug" is because you dealer will peddle other shit when you buy weed from them. If you can only buy weed at a legal shop the chance of you actually moving on to something else are extremly slim Yeah, the only reason it is a gateway drug is cos it's illegal, and the worst consequence of smoking? The justice system, not the drug itself... You should learn to read. This having to explain everything in detail because people cant think for themselves is ridiculous. You smoke a joint with a friend You like it He introduces you to a dealer You buy weed You go home and smoke weed You run out you go and buy more weed from the dealer repeat x10000 dealer says "hey kid Ive got something new, wanna try it?" you say "okay" wow ecstacy is really good dealer says "hey kid Ive got something new, wanna try it?" you say "okay" wow cocaine is really good!!!! Repeat till youre on heroine selling youre asshole to a dealer ORYou smoke a joint with a friend You like it You go to the weed store You buy weed You go home and smoke weed You run out you go and buy more weed from the weed store Repeat x100000000 No opportunity to buy hard drugs. You would have to go looking for it I agree but I think you misquoted someone because they guy above was agreeing with you haha:D lol fuck my bad. Ill fix that ^^, Sorry Leveller!!!
Lol no problem its par for the course in a stoner thread eh? ^^
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On September 02 2012 11:17 Coriolis wrote:
Tbh I think people are too fucking stupid to handle drugs of pretty much any kind. Unfortunately once it becomes legal making something illegal doesn't do any good (ex: prohibition), and sure plenty of people can smoke it illegally but they at least have to go through some effort.
But I'm in the minority and all the arguments favor legal weed (tax money, government shouldn't control what people do, etc) but I still think the majority is too stupid to handle weed. Hell they can't even handle alcohol.
Well, the majority kids are ALREADY smoking weed. Besides, why would alcohol be harder to handle? It's easier to get a dependency on that marijuana and easier to damage your body with.
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Just to be objective, this is the recent study:
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract
Yes, smoking weed over long periods of time will make you a little more stupid.(I think the actual paper says something about 6 IQ points over a decade of daily use lol)
But if tobacco, alcohol, coffeine etc are legally used, why ban the ganja?
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On September 02 2012 23:26 EnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:17 Coriolis wrote:
Tbh I think people are too fucking stupid to handle drugs of pretty much any kind. Unfortunately once it becomes legal making something illegal doesn't do any good (ex: prohibition), and sure plenty of people can smoke it illegally but they at least have to go through some effort.
But I'm in the minority and all the arguments favor legal weed (tax money, government shouldn't control what people do, etc) but I still think the majority is too stupid to handle weed. Hell they can't even handle alcohol. Well, the majority kids are ALREADY smoking weed. Besides, why would alcohol be harder to handle? It's easier to get a dependency on that marijuana and easier to damage your body with.
Also, I like how all the brainwashed people (not calling any of the guys I quoted brainwashed btw) somehow got to the conclusion of weed being a drug like all the artificial ones created by man and how it somehow magically appeared just this and the last century. As if people before never had smoked weed lol. Oh wait, these people got decimated to 4 digit numbers by the great white man.
Furthemore, how is it only prohibition if it has been legal before? We have a prohibition of weed right now.
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On September 02 2012 23:26 EnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:17 Coriolis wrote:
Tbh I think people are too fucking stupid to handle drugs of pretty much any kind. Unfortunately once it becomes legal making something illegal doesn't do any good (ex: prohibition), and sure plenty of people can smoke it illegally but they at least have to go through some effort.
But I'm in the minority and all the arguments favor legal weed (tax money, government shouldn't control what people do, etc) but I still think the majority is too stupid to handle weed. Hell they can't even handle alcohol. Well, the majority kids are ALREADY smoking weed. Besides, why would alcohol be harder to handle? It's easier to get a dependency on that marijuana and easier to damage your body with.
Actually no, while I don't like people presenting weed as a miracle medecine with only benefits, an excess of alcohol is far more damaging than marijuana.
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Yes, it should be legal for medical reasons, legal and restricted for personal use.
Although it was used in the past, the fact is that being under the influence of weed will impair the ability of the user to carry out basic tasks cannot be ignored.
If there are regulations so that weed can only be distributed to non-minors in a reasonable amount, then that would be the ideal solution, but there would have to be a very strict system of ID checking to prevent children from abusing the system.
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On September 02 2012 23:40 Praetorial wrote:
Yes, it should be legal for medical reasons, legal and restricted for personal use.
Although it was used in the past, the fact is that being under the influence of weed will impair the ability of the user to carry out basic tasks cannot be ignored.
If there are regulations so that weed can only be distributed to non-minors in a reasonable amount, then that would be the ideal solution, but there would have to be a very strict system of ID checking to prevent children from abusing the system.
So if we should make weed hard to acquire on the basis that being under its influence will impair to carry out basic tasks, should it be harder to acquire alcohol, which also impairs the user? If so, how do you deal with the illegal trade of weed/alcohol that surges because of the prohibition?
What about smoking cigarettes? It impairs the user from carrying out basic tasks, especially for the ones who die because of it because after dying, it's very hard to accomplish basic tasks.
I mean if I eat a fat hamburger for lunch I'll have trouble with basic tasks for 2-3 hours in the afternoon...
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On September 02 2012 23:36 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 23:26 EnE wrote:On September 02 2012 11:17 Coriolis wrote:
Tbh I think people are too fucking stupid to handle drugs of pretty much any kind. Unfortunately once it becomes legal making something illegal doesn't do any good (ex: prohibition), and sure plenty of people can smoke it illegally but they at least have to go through some effort.
But I'm in the minority and all the arguments favor legal weed (tax money, government shouldn't control what people do, etc) but I still think the majority is too stupid to handle weed. Hell they can't even handle alcohol. Well, the majority kids are ALREADY smoking weed. Besides, why would alcohol be harder to handle? It's easier to get a dependency on that marijuana and easier to damage your body with. Actually no, while I don't like people presenting weed as a miracle medecine with only benefits, an excess of alcohol is far more damaging than marijuana.
Pretty much,you can't actually die from a cannabis OD,when you smoke too much eventually you just fall asleep.
The most dangerous thing that can happen do you is dehydration.
That said some people can have a allergic reaction to weed which may cause a anaphylactic shock.The other way to actually die,is one of the stupidest ways to die anyway and practically never happens.Some people may get nausea when they smoke weed for the first times,if you smoke too much and suddenly fall asleep you could choke on your own vomit.As I said this practically never happens and if you die like that from weed than I don't know what to say lol.The nausea kicks in way before you smoke enough weed to actually pass out and if you don't stop because your body is telling you its not handling it well than you pretty much deserved it lol.
Keep in mind these cases are all pretty far out and never happen really.
I don't even want to comment on cases where people get high and than crash their car or pass out with a lit blunt and torch their couch.That's you being a fucking retard not weed killing you.
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On September 02 2012 23:40 Praetorial wrote:
Yes, it should be legal for medical reasons, legal and restricted for personal use.
Although it was used in the past, the fact is that being under the influence of weed will impair the ability of the user to carry out basic tasks cannot be ignored.
If there are regulations so that weed can only be distributed to non-minors in a reasonable amount, then that would be the ideal solution, but there would have to be a very strict system of ID checking to prevent children from abusing the system.
I think this is the closest thing I can get behind... The adults aren't exactly the problem with this, but the minors are. I have no experience how bad could be mixing marijuana, alcohol and cigarettes together in big quantities, but it doesn't sound good to me.
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after reading the last pages in this thread I want to point out that prohibition has no influence on the consume habits of the people.
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On September 02 2012 23:16 Testuser wrote:
No, I don't think so. It can easily ruin someones life, and those benefiting of it could be helped in other ways.
So why is alcohol legal? You're entitled to that opinion, but don't use flawed logic. That actually can't be used as a rationale for keeping it illegal.
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On September 02 2012 23:46 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 23:40 Praetorial wrote:
Yes, it should be legal for medical reasons, legal and restricted for personal use.
Although it was used in the past, the fact is that being under the influence of weed will impair the ability of the user to carry out basic tasks cannot be ignored.
If there are regulations so that weed can only be distributed to non-minors in a reasonable amount, then that would be the ideal solution, but there would have to be a very strict system of ID checking to prevent children from abusing the system. So if we should make weed hard to acquire on the basis that being under its influence will impair to carry out basic tasks, should it be harder to acquire alcohol, which also impairs the user? If so, how do you deal with the illegal trade of weed/alcohol that surges because of the prohibition? What about smoking cigarettes? It impairs the user from carrying out basic tasks, especially for the ones who die because of it because after dying, it's very hard to accomplish basic tasks. I mean if I eat a fat hamburger for lunch I'll have trouble with basic tasks for 2-3 hours in the afternoon...
If you read what I said...it should be available to those over 18.
Anything after that is secondary, as weed can and will have a negative effect on minors that use it.
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On September 02 2012 23:56 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 23:40 Praetorial wrote:
Yes, it should be legal for medical reasons, legal and restricted for personal use.
Although it was used in the past, the fact is that being under the influence of weed will impair the ability of the user to carry out basic tasks cannot be ignored.
If there are regulations so that weed can only be distributed to non-minors in a reasonable amount, then that would be the ideal solution, but there would have to be a very strict system of ID checking to prevent children from abusing the system. I think this is the closest thing I can get behind... The adults aren't exactly the problem with this, but the minors are. I have no experience how bad could be mixing marijuana, alcohol and cigarettes together in big quantities, but it doesn't sound good to me.
I do While it´s not a healthy everyday lifestyle, nothing bad has come of it so far haha.
In general, I am of the opinion that most people ITT need to chill and take a deep look at their own lives before judging the decisons of others.
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Just thought I'd pipe in-- the Cannabis/IQ study doesn't actually show causation, just correlation, and the measure of IQ doesn't necessarily actually measure intelligence.
And obviously it will be legalized, within a decade or so-- I hope they take the same approach with most drugs. The war on drugs is probably one of the most barbaric practices of our time. On par with the inquisition or what have you.
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One thing to consider is that it is much harder to regulate the potency/type of high of weed. Some kinds are weaker than a cigarrettes while other kinds will completely incapacitate you after a few puffs.
Combine that with drinking and there is much higher potential for people to become unintentionally intoxicated.. Different weeds can often have differing effects when combined with alchohol.
Alchohol drinks can be strong or weak.. but it is easier for people to recognize this before getting completely shitfaced
It is almost impossible to tell how strong the weed will be until you have tried it.. and by then you may have already taken too much..
It should be legalized but it must be done very carefully.. I don't think anyone has figured out a good way to do it just yet...
It should definiately be used for perscribed medicine, it is so much easier on the body and less addictive than modern day painkillers
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1 - Total deaths from Cannabis overdose: 0
2 - Total deaths caused from alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs: hundreds of thousands per year.
3 - Marijuana's current status as illegal does not prevent anyone from smoking it who cares to. Depending on what poll you look at, 40-60 percent of the US population under the age of 21 has smoked at least once, and about 10-15 percent smoke regularly. We've all heard anecdotal evidence that high school age children often have a harder time acquiring beer than marijuana.
4 - Hundreds of thousands of Americans suffer from disease for which marijuana can provide some relief, but are denied access.
5 - Marijuana laws typically prosecute marijuana users on a similar level to users of cocaine, heroin, and meth.
6 - Many professionals are marijuana users. The stereotype of a lazy fuck-up exists for smokers and non-smokers alike. Some notable smokers include Bill Gates, Rick Steves, Pablo Picasso, Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Francis Crick, Andrew Weil, Kary Mullis, Oliver Sacks, Richard Feynman, and the list goes on and on if you care to look.
7 - If marijuana was legalized, the gateway drug argument would be rendered moot. It would separate its black market dealings from other drugs such as heroin and cocaine. It would be controlled and regulated, and would not lead to harder drugs any more than alcohol or tobacco would.
8 - Studies have shown that marijuana use does not negatively impact your brain, but it is a moot point when discussing legality. Alcohol is 100% proven to damage your brain, liver, and many other systems in your body, and yet it remains legal. Cannabis' negative physical side effects are at the worst controversial, and at best hardly existent. This is not a basis for prohibition.
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EPT
