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On October 28 2011 08:03 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. Well the point is to punish based on the reason for the crime. It's not just black and white sentencing but sentience based on the individual. I'm sure most people know of this Show nested quote +A woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: "No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it." So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man's store to steal the drug for his wife.
Should Heinz have broken into the store to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not? Only a child answers stealing is wrong end of story.
But, a kid can be beaten because is not cool enough, a geek starcraft player, a fat kid, etc... there can be multiple reasons. So, because he was gay, he should be more punished than if the victim was a fat young white kid or a kid full of acne ?
The fact that he is gay doesn't change a thing : he beat a kid and will be punished for it. The rest is outside the law.
In the end, what makes the difference is that "gay" refer to a certain preference and also to a certain community, with public figure and a certain power in the media, while there are no "fat kid" community.
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On October 28 2011 08:08 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:54 Whitewing wrote:No, it doesn't work that way at all. If you killed someone who is straight, and I kill someone who is gay, they're both murder. If I killed the gay student BECAUSE he's gay, then it's a hatecrime. It doesn't matter who the crime is committed against, it matters WHY they committed the crime.
Also, if you kill someone straight for being straight, that's also a hatecrime.
It's a question of intent. The problem with this is that it's effectively a thought crime. What hate crime legislation does is basically make certain beliefs illegal. I think it's awful that most conservative Christians hate gays as a part of their religious beliefs, but to give them harsher punishments for attacking a gay than someone else is a violation of due process. I understand that we as a society want to discourage discrimination and hate, but free thought is even more important. It's similar to how I support the free speech of Neonazi groups, however harmful it might be, even if I'd rather they go die in a fire.
Good old religion.
This is what I posted in another thread:
"I don't understand why religion still exists at all. Thousands of years.... so much knowledge gained... and yet we as a race still cling to faith in invisible sky wizards. What kind of all powerful being creates AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE, shows up briefly thousands of years ago to fuck with his creations, and then disappears. Then, to top it all off. This absentee god demands worship and respect.. even though he is all powerful and all knowing. Think about that. ALL POWERFUL. As in, he can literally do anything. Create universes. Turn back time. Give everyone 2 heads. And... ALL KNOWING. He knows what you have done, are doing, and will do. Yet he threatens you with eternal damnation. Why if he already knows what you will do? The logic of religious people just baffles me. It is sad that so many people dedicate their lives to their imaginary gods instead of living their lives and truly thinking for themselves. People wonder why atheists are such dicks. I'll tell you why: It's because we have to watch religious people walk around like braindead zombies. Passing the disease of religion onto their children and communities, while we know the truth. It's frustrating as shit.
Fuck religion. It's a business and it's a dirty one to boot. Enlighten yourselves and grow the fuck up."
And worse than anything stated above, people will do things that are undeniably terrible in his name. It genuinely makes me sad.
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On October 28 2011 08:10 Plexa wrote:
These are kids guys... they will pick on people for being different. Be it because you have a dumb haircut, are asian or in this case your sexual orientation. I don't really think this is a hate crime, rather your standard bullying story - person is different, they get picked on for being different. 3 day suspension sounds inline with your standard bullying offence, so the punishment fits the crime. Obviously if there was any hint of a repeat offender then harsher punishments are called for.
punishment fits the crime my ASS. The kid got a concussion if he was beat any harder he would've had brain damage. The kid needs some counseling.
I got expelled from high school for smoking weed and I had to go to counseling before I got let back in!
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I don't have time to read through the article to see how old the bully was (it matters because he could be quite young), but in general I don't think someone should be thrown in prison for this.. Like "trainRiderJ" said, courts can't deal with every crime like this.
However the school reacted horribly. This is definitely a severe problem in America right now, and schools need to start cracking down hard on bullying, ESPECIALLY when it's over something like this. The kid should be expelled 100% of the time.. a 3 day suspension is a slap on the hand.
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On October 28 2011 08:05 WTFZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. I can kick someone out of my privately owned restaurant for whatever I want, so bad example. Hate crime-laws are stupid. There is no reason to discriminate between sexual orientation or race in criminal law. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and robbery is robbery. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in basically the same way.
Well you example was pretty bad too. I dont know about US but in sweden its definitely a harder punishment for hate crime.
The things is that it goes both way, as the guy the the medicine story said. Its your intend of the crime that decide the punishment. A murder is a really "big" crime(sorry im running out of English words), so its a wierd thing to compare.. how ever... If you steal medicine to save you wife, you should be easier punished than if you steal it to sell to China. And if you kill someone for being gay you should be harder punished than if you killed him b/c he fucked you wife (or something).
We are trying to make a peaceful society and in doing so we have to make sure people dont assault people for being different. (Ofc we want to remove it completely but thats not the point right now).
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On October 28 2011 08:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:03 semantics wrote:On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. Well the point is to punish based on the reason for the crime. It's not just black and white sentencing but sentience based on the individual. I'm sure most people know of this A woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: "No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it." So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man's store to steal the drug for his wife.
Should Heinz have broken into the store to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not? Only a child answers stealing is wrong end of story. But, a kid can be beaten because is not cool enough, a geek starcraft player, a fat kid, etc... there can be multiple reasons. So, because he was gay, he should be more punished than if the victim was a fat young white kid or a kid full of acne ? The fact that he is gay doesn't change a thing : he beat a kid and will be punished for it. The rest is outside the law. In the end, what makes the difference is that "gay" refer to a certain preference and also to a certain community, with public figure and a certain power in the media, while there are no "fat kid" community.
That's my take. You don't fix discrimination by enforcing preferential treatment (another form of discrimination) in the other direction. Now we have a culture that readily accepts things like the 'token black guy'. He's not there on his own merit. He's just there because he's a certain ethnicity and a quota has to be met.
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On October 28 2011 08:05 WTFZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. I can kick someone out of my privately owned restaurant for whatever I want, so bad example. Hate crime-laws are stupid. There is no reason to discriminate between sexual orientation or race in criminal law. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and robbery is robbery. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in basically the same way.
I agree with this. It's just the minority being a victim that generates all of the sensationalism.
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Yea this is pretty messed up, but i dont agree with most people saying they would have wanted charges or such pressed. it's a sad fact that people get beat up all the time for stupid reasons. sometimes people get beat up for no reason at all other then the bully not liking how that person looked at him.
I think the reason they school gave only a 3 day suspension was that they wanted to punish the action itself rather then the reasons. makes things easier.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
This thread seems to be full of retributivists. Sad. 
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On October 28 2011 08:10 Plexa wrote:
These are kids guys... they will pick on people for being different. Be it because you have a dumb haircut, are asian or in this case your sexual orientation. I don't really think this is a hate crime, rather your standard bullying story - person is different, they get picked on for being different. 3 day suspension sounds inline with your standard bullying offence, so the punishment fits the crime. Obviously if there was any hint of a repeat offender then harsher punishments are called for.
Did you watch the video? that not picking on someone... that is pretty much trying to kill someone...
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On October 28 2011 08:12 Gorguts wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:10 Plexa wrote:
These are kids guys... they will pick on people for being different. Be it because you have a dumb haircut, are asian or in this case your sexual orientation. I don't really think this is a hate crime, rather your standard bullying story - person is different, they get picked on for being different. 3 day suspension sounds inline with your standard bullying offence, so the punishment fits the crime. Obviously if there was any hint of a repeat offender then harsher punishments are called for. punishment fits the crime my ASS. The kid got a concussion if he was beat any harder he would've had brain damage. The kid needs some counseling. I got expelled from high school for smoking weed and I had to go to counseling before I got let back in! So you went to a fucking batshit school and therefore the rest of the world should follow such procedures? Kids fight, trivially and viciously all the time. I personally have gotten into a fight not dissimilar from that for equally unimportant reasons. Almost everyone I known has...twice over. People are being overly dramatic and screaming and crying in this thread because the kids a fag, not because of what actually happened.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 28 2011 08:15 Pillage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:05 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. I can kick someone out of my privately owned restaurant for whatever I want, so bad example. Hate crime-laws are stupid. There is no reason to discriminate between sexual orientation or race in criminal law. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and robbery is robbery. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in basically the same way. I agree with this. It's just the minority being a victim that generates all of the sensationalism.
No its not that a minority got attacked, its that he got attacked because he was a minority... I cant believe people cant see why we need Hate Crime laws...
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I don't think it should be treated any differently than if the kid had been straight. Police involved and charges brought up.
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@lizzard_warish: Using the phrase "because the kids a fag" in this thread is probably a very, very bad idea bud... Just saying.
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assault, police involvement
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United States5162 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:15 lizzard_warish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:12 Gorguts wrote:On October 28 2011 08:10 Plexa wrote:
These are kids guys... they will pick on people for being different. Be it because you have a dumb haircut, are asian or in this case your sexual orientation. I don't really think this is a hate crime, rather your standard bullying story - person is different, they get picked on for being different. 3 day suspension sounds inline with your standard bullying offence, so the punishment fits the crime. Obviously if there was any hint of a repeat offender then harsher punishments are called for. punishment fits the crime my ASS. The kid got a concussion if he was beat any harder he would've had brain damage. The kid needs some counseling. I got expelled from high school for smoking weed and I had to go to counseling before I got let back in! So you went to a fucking batshit school and therefore the rest of the world should follow such procedures? Kids fight, trivially and viciously all the time. I personally have gotten into a fight not dissimilar from that for equally unimportant reasons. Almost everyone I known has...twice over. People are being overly dramatic and screaming and crying in this thread because the kids a fag, not because of what actually happened.
I still don't understand how someone can call this a fight. A fight is where both kids want to hurt each other. This kid didn't want anything to do with it. He was assaulted, plain and simple.
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On October 28 2011 08:15 lizzard_warish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:12 Gorguts wrote:On October 28 2011 08:10 Plexa wrote:
These are kids guys... they will pick on people for being different. Be it because you have a dumb haircut, are asian or in this case your sexual orientation. I don't really think this is a hate crime, rather your standard bullying story - person is different, they get picked on for being different. 3 day suspension sounds inline with your standard bullying offence, so the punishment fits the crime. Obviously if there was any hint of a repeat offender then harsher punishments are called for. punishment fits the crime my ASS. The kid got a concussion if he was beat any harder he would've had brain damage. The kid needs some counseling. I got expelled from high school for smoking weed and I had to go to counseling before I got let back in! So you went to a fucking batshit school and therefore the rest of the world should follow such procedures? Kids fight, trivially and viciously all the time. I personally have gotten into a fight not dissimilar from that for equally unimportant reasons. Almost everyone I known has...twice over. People are being overly dramatic and screaming and crying in this thread because the kids a fag, not because of what actually happened.
the fact you call this a "fight" is pathetic.
I don't care at all that the kid is gay. I just don't like violence. I think the kid needs counseling because he is clearly way too violent. this is WAY beyond picking on someone. he almost killed the kid.
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On October 28 2011 08:05 WTFZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different. I can kick someone out of my privately owned restaurant for whatever I want, so bad example. Hate crime-laws are stupid. There is no reason to discriminate between sexual orientation or race in criminal law. Murder is murder, assault is assault, and robbery is robbery. And I'm pretty sure the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in basically the same way.
I certainly agree that a crime is a crime, no matter who it is committed against. But I think there are reasons to treat crimes against minorities (and that are committed because the victim is in a minority group) differently, and more seriously, to crimes against the community in general.
First, hate crimes may be reflective of a widely held view that people of a certain race, gender, religion or sexual orientation are somehow inferior or "less of a human being" that other people. The primary mechanism for addressing this should, of course, be education. But the secondary mechanism is to ensure that perpetrators understand that if they commit a crime against a member of a minority group, because they are a member of a minority, the law (as the coercive arm of the people) will judge them doubly culpable, and punish them doubly hard. The ultimate goal of punishing crimes against minorities more seriously is to create attitudinal change amongst potential perpetrators.
Second, as to those who will never change their attitude no matter what education or "punishment signals" they recieve, the extra punishment is simply a Pavlovian method - the state's way of saying - "okay, we recognise we cannot change your mind. However, most people in society believe your conduct is unacceptable, so if you do this, the state (as the collective will of the people) will hit you with a really big stick, and keep hitting you, until you either change your behaviour, or you are incapacitated" (ie in prison or dead).
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On October 28 2011 07:59 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:52 WTFZerg wrote:On October 28 2011 07:49 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:46 WTFZerg wrote:I used to make kids like this (the bully) lives living hell in high school. Be a dick all you want, just don't pick on people smaller than you because you have some kind of massive inferiority complex. Seeing as how we can't just cane the shit out of the kid like they do in Singapore, have him tried as an adult for premeditated aggravated assault. Little bastard. On October 28 2011 07:45 aderum wrote:On October 28 2011 07:42 Millitron wrote:On October 28 2011 07:37 Whitewing wrote:
Hate crime, throw the kid in prison. I don't like the term "Hate crime". Aren't all crimes hate crimes? The term makes it seem like some crimes are worse than others just because the victim belonged to a minority. What difference does it make that the victim was gay, and targeted because of this? If justice actually IS blind, it can't be reasonably taken into account. Hate crime is a legal term (at least in sweden), and its used when someone attacks you for either you sexuality or you ethnicity and maybe someting more(edit, see above post)... It doesnt have to be a minority, if 3 black kids beat up a white kid just because he is white they will be charge with hate crime. I actually think the law makes perfect sense. "Hate crimes" are a stupid concept that only further the ideology that people are different from one another. No its not.. Its there to make sure that we dont see one different better then the other different. We are different, its not a problem, the problem is when people like this(the bully) beats up/murders people for being different. Thats why its good to have a law that makes the crimes worse. So if I kill someone who is straight, and you kill someone who is gay, you've committed a worse crime? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You clearly missed the point about it not automatically being a hate crime if its towards a minority. Its just as discrimination, but on a broader(worse) scale. If you kick someone out of your restaurant just b/c he wheres a t-shirt with a sportteam you dont like, and if you kick someone out of your restaurant b/c he is black... which one is worse? The law is there to make sure that we dont tolerate doing bad things to people just for being different.
Yeah, but kicking out someone for wearing a t-shirt with a sports team that you don't like isn't illegal, where as racial discrimination is.
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EPT
