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Dealing with bullying is part of growing up, some take the pain and fall down into a hole, and others fight back and build character.
Are bullies assholes? Yea, but those who have an internal locus of control always seem to find a way out of these "impossible situations". Bullying is no different, there is an infinite amount of ways to make others perceive you as more powerful than you actually are. What happened to that kid is messed up, but I also think that there are people more suseptable to bullying, and without knowing perpetuate the situation by being ashamed and curling up into the ball. The bullies like it when people cower, it's what allows them to keep lowering the standard at which they treat others because they view them as less than standard.
Gay black white christian jewish it doesn't matter, if you are a male on this planet you have the means to stand up for yourself in a verbal manner, and you also have the means to trick people into not making you a target. Be smart, stop treating everything like an us and them, fact of the matter is that most people claim to have been bullied in high school. Was it actually bullying or are you just complaining that others didn't treat you how you wanted to be treated? Social systems are extremely fickle, not everyone is going to accept you at face value initially, you need to establish yourself as someone who is confident and worthy (notice how this parallels with getting women? Confident and intelligent people can work around their shortcomings by being confident in themselves).
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I don't really get why this thread has exploded. Bullying happens. It's never pleasant. Kids can be evil little bastards. The punishments for it are often also much too light; adults can be big blind bastards.
We know schoolyards can be vindictive places, and if the local ringleaders don't like you, life can be hell. The actual name they're calling when they do it is just an arbitrary excuse. Just because, in this case, that excuse was that the kid was gay, it's suddenly a hate crime all-but punishable by death?
Why are we not advocating calling the police in on every schoolyard bullying? Or are we?
Bullying is bad, don't get me wrong. I know firsthand that bullying is bad. In fact, this being TL, surely like half the people reading this know firsthand that bullying is bad. But I'm not sure that "kid gets badly bullied at school, and school doesn't respond harshly enough" is worth 50 pages and counting.
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On October 31 2011 15:21 Belisarius wrote:
I don't really get why this thread has exploded. Bullying happens. It's never pleasant. Kids can be evil little bastards. The punishments for it are often also much too light; adults can be big blind bastards.
We know schoolyards can be vindictive places, and if the local ringleaders don't like you, life can be hell. The actual name they're calling when they do it is just an arbitrary excuse. Just because, in this case, that excuse was that the kid was gay, it's suddenly a hate crime all-but punishable by death?
Why are we not advocating calling the police in on every schoolyard bullying? Or are we?
Bullying is bad, don't get me wrong. I know firsthand that bullying is bad. In fact, this being TL, surely like half the people reading this know firsthand that bullying is bad. But I'm not sure that "kid gets badly bullied at school, and school doesn't respond harshly enough" is worth 50 pages and counting.
Exactly. I think the punishment should be much harsher, but my view of that has absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality.
This thread is sensationalist trash imo. Sorry, but I had to say it. Take away the "gay" part of the title, and you have people all around the world getting beaten up for thousands of reasons, many even worse than this. I'm a huge LGBT supporter and this kind of news tactic is absolutely disgusting to me.
Yes, increase the punishment. Yes, this thread having 52 pages because of the word "gay" is pathetic.
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Whoa, what is up with people saying bullying happens and let it be?
Looking at the video we can see a guy who is pretty big compared to the victim standing around waiting and then beating on the kid. This is assault (for a kid being gay?) not the bullying of threats and intimidation which would need to be handled by the school. As soon as this got punchy with no provocation, yeah the police need to be called in.
I'm not saying all physical things needs police involvement, shirt grabbing and pushing not so much but fist to face and beatings, yeah.
Also I am amazed of the super advice from Surrealz of be smart, trick the bullies and be confident in yourself. Did you learn that advice from afternoon cartoons or something? It doesn't work if you are getting beat on and not every kid is as smart as Hanna Montana or whoever your hero is. People have a right to be able to go through life being gay/black/white/christian/jewish without someone stepping on them purely for that reason. How the hell do you think anything but that?
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On October 28 2011 07:43 Enki wrote:
What a piece of shit, let the kid rot in jail.
I think the other students who just fucking watched it happen should be punished too, expel all of them.
Seems legit. (possibly a bit over the top)
Obviously the kid deserves more punishment, regardless of the reasoning behind the bullying
I think the solution to all of this is an IQ requirement to have kids, because we end up having to deal with morons like this.
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On October 31 2011 15:21 Belisarius wrote:
We know schoolyards can be vindictive places, and if the local ringleaders don't like you, life can be hell. The actual name they're calling when they do it is just an arbitrary excuse. Just because, in this case, that excuse was that the kid was gay, it's suddenly a hate crime all-but punishable by death?
Punishable by death is another matter, but if the kid was beaten because he was gay, then it's pretty clearly definable as a hate crime.
From wikipedia: In crime and law, hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation.
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I mistakenly clicked no punishment :/. Police should be involved because it's a violent crime not because the guy's gay.
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On October 31 2011 15:58 DeadEyE X wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:43 Enki wrote:
What a piece of shit, let the kid rot in jail.
I think the other students who just fucking watched it happen should be punished too, expel all of them. Seems legit. (possibly a bit over the top) Obviously the kid deserves more punishment, regardless of the reasoning behind the bullying I think the solution to all of this is an IQ requirement to have kids, because we end up having to deal with morons like this.
people change as they grow up. They grow more mature as they collect experiences along the road hence they don't have as harsh punishment for under 18. There's a possibility that this kid, 10 years later, look back and can't understand why he was so stupid back then. The law are not there to punish those people that get lost along the way, it's more like to pull them back to the right road, at least that's why they're trying to do. They're giving him a chance. However, i do think a little bit harsher punishment should be given but not as harsh as you mention (rot in jail? lol)
EDIT: responding to Enki
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That bully needs to be put away. Expelling him won't eliminate the problem that he still has influence outside of the school.
If I'm the parent, hell even if I'm not, you go to the full extent of the law. There is no way the kid getting beaten up is walking away without emotional trauma (more) and a pretty heafty facial scaring. The ultimate question is, where was the teacher in all this? No one to say, "Hey cut that shit out." Yea people can't be in 20 places at once, but there needs to be a level of safety for these kids. Especially if there is already evidence of him being bullied.
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On October 31 2011 15:37 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 15:21 Belisarius wrote:
I don't really get why this thread has exploded. Bullying happens. It's never pleasant. Kids can be evil little bastards. The punishments for it are often also much too light; adults can be big blind bastards.
We know schoolyards can be vindictive places, and if the local ringleaders don't like you, life can be hell. The actual name they're calling when they do it is just an arbitrary excuse. Just because, in this case, that excuse was that the kid was gay, it's suddenly a hate crime all-but punishable by death?
Why are we not advocating calling the police in on every schoolyard bullying? Or are we?
Bullying is bad, don't get me wrong. I know firsthand that bullying is bad. In fact, this being TL, surely like half the people reading this know firsthand that bullying is bad. But I'm not sure that "kid gets badly bullied at school, and school doesn't respond harshly enough" is worth 50 pages and counting. Exactly. I think the punishment should be much harsher, but my view of that has absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality. This thread is sensationalist trash imo. Sorry, but I had to say it. Take away the "gay" part of the title, and you have people all around the world getting beaten up for thousands of reasons, many even worse than this. I'm a huge LGBT supporter and this kind of news tactic is absolutely disgusting to me. Yes, increase the punishment. Yes, this thread having 52 pages because of the word "gay" is pathetic.
Well to be honest. If you have seen the beating that was caught on tape. I think it would have made headlines regardless of the victim.
I think many people put more effort into bringing bullying of minorities in schoold to the forefront. Reason being is that they are a minority. And each time something like this happens. It allows teachers, parents, students to see this event and to reflect on their own position on this and allow them to make bullying less often.
If 2 equally sized white kids go at it. Likely its a mutual fight and there is no auctual bullying involved. When it comes to a minority that has a high suicide rate and a extremely high rate of being bullied. News like this get published because we want to see the bullying stop and like I said. This gives the chance for teachers to tell students its not okay to bully others.
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Fits pretty much to hate crime section, which would probably give jail time, which would be the best option in here. These kind of things makes me sick: (
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The almost exact same thing happend in my school, where a guy jumped on a friend of mine for no reason (we still dont know why...) but i of course jumped on him, I cant just let my friend get beaten up... me and the random fucktard got expelled for 10 days. He because he jumped my friend and me beacause i beat the living shit out of him.
I can't undetstand why the fuck people just sit there and watch a guy get beaten up... grow some fucking balls..
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i believe that if it was one on one fight the homosexual had an even chance to defend himself and should have, getting the police involved cause you cant take an ass kicking cause someone doesnt like you is stupid as hell........ if a buncha gay guys jkumped me cause i was straight i wouldnt be complaoining bout t, alos bullying and beatdowns happen everyday in school but it had to happen to a gay student to warrant a post on teamliquid.net eh?
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On October 31 2011 22:40 Sgonzo wrote:
i believe that if it was one on one fight the homosexual had an even chance to defend himself and should have, getting the police involved cause you cant take an ass kicking cause someone doesnt like you is stupid as hell........ if a buncha gay guys jkumped me cause i was straight i wouldnt be complaoining bout t, alos bullying and beatdowns happen everyday in school but it had to happen to a gay student to warrant a post on teamliquid.net eh?
So anyway, if someone broke my tooth while beating me (with or without a reason, that actually doesn't matter. Nor does the frequency of such occurances) I would get the police involved myself. Why? Because they have no right to beat me, I didn't want them to beat me and if I let it slide then they will beat someone else in the future. According to you, beating people is okay on the grounds that it happens every day.
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getting beaten for being yourself, i dont see how you could learn anything from it? i think you can learn from mistakes but.. its the same as getting enslaved for being black, getting killed for "having jewish blood". its some form of degeneration because its based on irrational arbitrariness
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its not about learning its about the fact that a kid can catch a beating from a bully for being poor, and no1 gives a damn but when he catches a beating for being gay you all jump here to defend him and think that your taking the morale high ground when you are infact being ignorant to the fact that people get discriminated against for EVERYTHING anything and everything can be brought against you for hate so why cry about it? someone screws around with your deal solve it dont go getting the neo facist jackboot of the police involved
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On October 31 2011 15:06 Surrealz wrote:
Dealing with bullying is part of growing up, some take the pain and fall down into a hole, and others fight back and build character.
Are bullies assholes? Yea, but those who have an internal locus of control always seem to find a way out of these "impossible situations". Bullying is no different, there is an infinite amount of ways to make others perceive you as more powerful than you actually are. What happened to that kid is messed up, but I also think that there are people more suseptable to bullying, and without knowing perpetuate the situation by being ashamed and curling up into the ball. The bullies like it when people cower, it's what allows them to keep lowering the standard at which they treat others because they view them as less than standard.
This is such an ignorant mindset. I like it when people who have no experience with bullying say things like this. I was bullied almost every day in elementary/middle school, and every day I stood up for myself. I didn't curl up or take shit from anyone. Guess what happens in the real world? I got beat up a lot, and I got suspended a lot for getting into fights. Sure, sometimes I'd leave the bully with a bloody nose, but it wouldn't stop them from coming back. They didn't admire my courage and confidence like Hollywood leads you to believe. All it makes them do is grab a friend to help beat you up next time. Please stop spreading bullshit advice.
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The gay card is the new race card.
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dude i wasnt bullied, but i did have problems with many people in high school and bitching and complaining bout it wouldve got me absolutely no where.
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On October 31 2011 15:06 Surrealz wrote:
Dealing with bullying is part of growing up, some take the pain and fall down into a hole, and others fight back and build character.
Are bullies assholes? Yea, but those who have an internal locus of control always seem to find a way out of these "impossible situations". Bullying is no different, there is an infinite amount of ways to make others perceive you as more powerful than you actually are. What happened to that kid is messed up, but I also think that there are people more suseptable to bullying, and without knowing perpetuate the situation by being ashamed and curling up into the ball. The bullies like it when people cower, it's what allows them to keep lowering the standard at which they treat others because they view them as less than standard.
Gay black white christian jewish it doesn't matter, if you are a male on this planet you have the means to stand up for yourself in a verbal manner, and you also have the means to trick people into not making you a target. Be smart, stop treating everything like an us and them, fact of the matter is that most people claim to have been bullied in high school. Was it actually bullying or are you just complaining that others didn't treat you how you wanted to be treated? Social systems are extremely fickle, not everyone is going to accept you at face value initially, you need to establish yourself as someone who is confident and worthy (notice how this parallels with getting women? Confident and intelligent people can work around their shortcomings by being confident in themselves).
Since when is being male the prerequisite? I'd say it's far worse for a guy to beat up say a 10 year old scrawny male than to manage to beat up a 21 year old female body builder. It matters how defenseless your opposition is. Some people simply aren't of big stature.
Did you even watch the video? At what point could the gay guy stand up for himself verbally? He was SPONTANEOUSLY attacked!
On October 31 2011 23:20 Sgonzo wrote:
its not about learning its about the fact that a kid can catch a beating from a bully for being poor, and no1 gives a damn but when he catches a beating for being gay you all jump here to defend him and think that your taking the morale high ground when you are infact being ignorant to the fact that people get discriminated against for EVERYTHING anything and everything can be brought against you for hate so why cry about it? someone screws around with your deal solve it dont go getting the neo facist jackboot of the police involved
Do kids really get beaten up for being poor? :o. Honest question. I've never seen it as an issue in society nor have I seen any widespread social stigma against it. If anything, there is more sympathy for poor people and resentment towards the wealthy.
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EPT
