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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
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4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On May 05 2014 16:33 Merany wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:06 r.Evo wrote:On May 05 2014 00:50 Merany wrote:
Do you guys think it's ok to go on multiple "second dates" with girls?
Met two girls through online dating within a week, both went really fine, I like both girls. Both dates ended with "hey, why not see each other again?".
I feel wrong about it because if both second dates happen and go well, someone is going to be disappointed after I make a choice...
Or is it just me and I should not worry about that too much? If one of them ends up disappointed you conveyed something to them that wasn't true. There's a fine line between a guy who dates multiple women and gets admired for it and one who gets called out on it. Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:
Is there a presumption of exclusivity? If there is then you should correct that because otherwise it's a lie by omission and not something you want to open a relationship with. If there isn't and you're both on the same page about just getting to know each other then no need to bring it up. You know your deal better than any of us. When I asked my question, I was fully aware of that "exclusivity" thing. Truth is, I have no idea what I implied... Really, met two girls, had a fun time, both were at least 3h talk, light flirting but nothing else and both ended with suggestions of seeing us again... I mean, there was no mention of "exclusivity" nor "it's just so I can get to know you a bit more". Seeing I've no idea what I conveyed, I would be cautious making a call on what they thought :p Thing is, it has happened to me many times in the past where a girl accepted a "second date" just to end up at the end of it with "hey, let's be friend instead"... Again, it could just be me not being able to read signs and it should have been expected. This time I don't wanna lose an opportunity with any of them. Meh, I'm obviously bad at this :D In case both "second dates" happen, what would be your advice then?
Relax, and don't go into them with any expectations. sounds like you're expecting every girl you meet online to be willing to get into a relationship right away. I've done online dating and it is true that some people are looking to meet the love of their life, and can assume that the first person they meet is "it" for them. Many don't though. some are just looking to make a new friend, meet some new, exciting people and if something romantic happens, cool. Some are looking for a good hard fuck and they move on. If you're looking for a relationship, then find someone who you 1. can see yourself being in a successful relationship with and 2. also wants to be in a relationship. It may be one or both of these girls, it may be neither. Keep your options open until the decision is clear.
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On May 05 2014 16:33 Merany wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:06 r.Evo wrote:On May 05 2014 00:50 Merany wrote:
Do you guys think it's ok to go on multiple "second dates" with girls?
Met two girls through online dating within a week, both went really fine, I like both girls. Both dates ended with "hey, why not see each other again?".
I feel wrong about it because if both second dates happen and go well, someone is going to be disappointed after I make a choice...
Or is it just me and I should not worry about that too much? If one of them ends up disappointed you conveyed something to them that wasn't true. There's a fine line between a guy who dates multiple women and gets admired for it and one who gets called out on it. Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:
Is there a presumption of exclusivity? If there is then you should correct that because otherwise it's a lie by omission and not something you want to open a relationship with. If there isn't and you're both on the same page about just getting to know each other then no need to bring it up. You know your deal better than any of us. When I asked my question, I was fully aware of that "exclusivity" thing. Truth is, I have no idea what I implied... Really, met two girls, had a fun time, both were at least 3h talk, light flirting but nothing else and both ended with suggestions of seeing us again... I mean, there was no mention of "exclusivity" nor "it's just so I can get to know you a bit more". Seeing I've no idea what I conveyed, I would be cautious making a call on what they thought :p Thing is, it has happened to me many times in the past where a girl accepted a "second date" just to end up at the end of it with "hey, let's be friend instead"... Again, it could just be me not being able to read signs and it should have been expected. This time I don't wanna lose an opportunity with any of them. Meh, I'm obviously bad at this :D In case both "second dates" happen, what would be your advice then?
In a nutshell what you're saying is "I don't know what I'm communicating in that regard" which, while pretty damn common, might not be what you'd like it to be.
Personally for any kind of loose thing I try to ensure it is somehow communicated that it's going to be loose. A general idea is that the frames I'm setting for our interaction are about something that's relaxed, confidential, adventurous, fun and sexual. Things we associate with "Casual, safe and exciting". If the girl makes any attempt at defining the relationship beyond that (and I want to keep it in the casual realm) I make sure to take over and set them among the lines of "You like me, I like you, lets enjoy our time together (...and not worry about marrying in two weeks)."
Once past the first "real" steps (aka at least a kiss) I also have good experience with straight up mentioning that I'm not looking for a relationship right now when the topic comes up. If you do it earlier there's a solid chance that it seems out of place or isn't taken nearly as serious.
Since this is all very vague (since it obviously has to be calibrated well depending on the person you're dealing with) here's what I'd do in your situation specifically, depending on what you want out of it:
a) You want a casual sexual relationship with ideally both of them. Communicate it if the topic comes up. If it doesn't try and be more sexual than usual and simply avoid doing "relationship stuff" with either of them as much as you can unless that's the direction you'd like it to go. If you don't act like you want a relationship, don't treat her like you want one and communicate that you don't want one when it comes up - all good. If at any point you see her falling for you more than you'd like it is imo your responsibility to cut down on interaction. If you end up falling more for her than you initially agreed on, start doing "relationship stuff" and work from there.
b) You want an actual relationship with one of them but you have no clue with who. First of all, you suck at screening and you seem clueless about what you're looking for. Figure that out. Stick with it, don't ever go with one person solely because you couldn't get the other. Now here's why people who know their shizzle don't recommend ever shooting straight for a relationship: It's almost impossible to do without hurting other parties involved. While it's no issue to seduce multiple people (since you can easily imply that they're not the only ones you'd do this with without making them seem cheap) it's pretty damn hard to romantically woe multiple people without making at least one of them feel bad about it (unless they're into poly of course).
...based on those two points my personal suggestion (which works great for me, might totally not be your thing!) is to shoot for a casual sexual relationship with both, communicate that properly and then see how things go. Maybe you fall for one of them the second she brings you water after sex, maybe you fall for neither. Work from there. If you happen to fall for both you prolly need to reconsider how you present yourself since it's always possible that you're just not into monogamy.
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On May 05 2014 16:33 Merany wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:06 r.Evo wrote:On May 05 2014 00:50 Merany wrote:
Do you guys think it's ok to go on multiple "second dates" with girls?
Met two girls through online dating within a week, both went really fine, I like both girls. Both dates ended with "hey, why not see each other again?".
I feel wrong about it because if both second dates happen and go well, someone is going to be disappointed after I make a choice...
Or is it just me and I should not worry about that too much? If one of them ends up disappointed you conveyed something to them that wasn't true. There's a fine line between a guy who dates multiple women and gets admired for it and one who gets called out on it. Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 08:46 KwarK wrote:
Is there a presumption of exclusivity? If there is then you should correct that because otherwise it's a lie by omission and not something you want to open a relationship with. If there isn't and you're both on the same page about just getting to know each other then no need to bring it up. You know your deal better than any of us. When I asked my question, I was fully aware of that "exclusivity" thing. Truth is, I have no idea what I implied... Really, met two girls, had a fun time, both were at least 3h talk, light flirting but nothing else and both ended with suggestions of seeing us again... I mean, there was no mention of "exclusivity" nor "it's just so I can get to know you a bit more". Seeing I've no idea what I conveyed, I would be cautious making a call on what they thought :p Thing is, it has happened to me many times in the past where a girl accepted a "second date" just to end up at the end of it with "hey, let's be friend instead"... Again, it could just be me not being able to read signs and it should have been expected. This time I don't wanna lose an opportunity with any of them. Meh, I'm obviously bad at this :D In case both "second dates" happen, what would be your advice then?
I'd say a pretty simple line is this: If you kiss one, don't kiss the other. It isn't perfect, but it's probably fair enough. Anything less can be pretty easily dismissed as flirting, anything more can be easily construed as philandering.
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@r.Evo: thanks for the detailed answer (as always!). Unfortunately, I'm 100% into your "b)" 
But I agree with you that I need to figure out what I want and the most obvious way to do it is just to go on follow up dates and spend more time with both of them!
At that point, the line jrkirby suggested seems like a good "least worst" option for hurting as little as I can any of them...
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Just got out of FT school. Looking to find someone. Where do I start? I've been to parties. I don't like them and don't know if it'd be best to meet someone from one. Also tried online dating in the past. Mostly it seemed like people were looking for hookups with greek gods. What do?
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On May 05 2014 20:48 obesechicken13 wrote:
Just got out of FT school. Looking to find someone. Where do I start? I've been to parties. I don't like them and don't know if it'd be best to meet someone from one. Also tried online dating in the past. Mostly it seemed like people were looking for hookups with greek gods. What do?
find activitys YOU like and meet women there.
I meet lots of women at the hiking group of my university, and the matrial arts i do.
The hiking group is better though :D (you have 6-8 hours to talk to them, and there are new people every month)
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On May 05 2014 22:30 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 16:05 Monsen wrote:The point is that it's absolutely possible to feel bad about things that you don't need to feel bad about. On May 05 2014 12:39 chadissilent wrote:
If you feel bad about something, you're probably doing something you should feel bad about. I'm still waiting for a proper example of this, other than church-shaming. Edit: @Merany: there's no shame in kissing both. There's no shame in going on dates with both. There's no shame in sleeping with both. You want to find who you're compatible with. You want to see who you can be yourself around.
of course there is no shame in doing all that.
the moral problem occurs if he is not open about that to the two women (in other words: lying), so he can be with both.
I would not have a problem when a girl I date goes out with someone else. I would have a problem when she kisses or fucks someone else. especially if she lies aout it
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On May 05 2014 22:30 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 16:05 Monsen wrote:The point is that it's absolutely possible to feel bad about things that you don't need to feel bad about. On May 05 2014 12:39 chadissilent wrote:
If you feel bad about something, you're probably doing something you should feel bad about. I'm still waiting for a proper example of this, other than church-shaming. Edit: @Merany: there's no shame in kissing both. There's no shame in going on dates with both. There's no shame in sleeping with both. You want to find who you're compatible with. You want to see who you can be yourself around.
Sometimes I feel bad beating noobs and taking their ladderpoints. Some people could feel bad about killing a fly. If you feel bad about something then it's probably because it doesn't fit into your world view, so you need to either stop doing it or alter your world view to realize that the action isn't 'bad'. This is probably getting off topic though so I'll ask my own question.
I got this girl's number before school finished and we were texting for a few hours last week, then I asked if she wanted to hang out in the following few days. She stopped responding, but then texted me the following day that she would like to, so I suggested two places then she just never responded and it's been a few days now. I'm thinking she was just on the fence about it, and then agreed and changed her mind and now I've lost that opportunity? Is there any salvaging it?
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On May 05 2014 00:50 Merany wrote:
Do you guys think it's ok to go on multiple "second dates" with girls?
Met two girls through online dating within a week, both went really fine, I like both girls. Both dates ended with "hey, why not see each other again?".
I feel wrong about it because if both second dates happen and go well, someone is going to be disappointed after I make a choice...
Or is it just me and I should not worry about that too much?
absolutely, so long as you dont throw a shit fit if she is dating someone else, and you are honest if one of them asks
you guys met online. you can almost be assured that everyone you meet is at least actively talking to other people at the same time until you get past a couple of dates. that's the whole purpose of online dating. even if you met elsewhere, you shouldnt assume you are exclusive until it is brought up
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On May 05 2014 21:38 Snotling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 20:48 obesechicken13 wrote:
Just got out of FT school. Looking to find someone. Where do I start? I've been to parties. I don't like them and don't know if it'd be best to meet someone from one. Also tried online dating in the past. Mostly it seemed like people were looking for hookups with greek gods. What do? find activitys YOU like and meet women there. I meet lots of women at the hiking group of my university, and the matrial arts i do. The hiking group is better though :D (you have 6-8 hours to talk to them, and there are new people every month)
I like magic but doubt many girls go to magic events.
I'll be more attentive to stuff going on at school though.
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You're right, Obese. Magic is not too sexy, but school events(as long as it's not... also magic, or chess or something) are great.
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If you are good at, and look konfident while doing them, most things can be attractive for women, even magic
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Sure, but some things are sexier than others. Salsa dancing > chess in terms of sexiness, on average.
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Chess is something that does seem to be respected, but only if you are really good
The reason I stopped playing chess in high school, even though I was pretty decent, was that I thought all the HS chess players were losers. But high-caliber tournaments are usually filled with people that look at least presentable. I don't know if the scrub/good player divide is like that with magic, though.
Anybody have experience dating while in a frat? I'm not really a casual sex kinda guy but I think I may join a fraternity; maybe one of the "crazy" ones. I'm sure it depends on the specific guys, but do you think just dating one girl is frowned upon? I'm mostly looking for the easy friend group/easy alcohol/ fun social event aspect.
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Chess is respected, but not sexy. Generally, logic based activities aren't sexy, and physical/artistic activities are or can be. At my university all of the players I've met are at least alright(lowest being 1500 I think) and at least presentable.
Chocolate, from what I've read of your posts you may not fit in a frat that well, but it's definitely worth thinking about. Just make sure it's worth the investment it requires and you can't go wrong.
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On May 06 2014 06:47 WarSame wrote:
Chess is respected, but not sexy. Generally, logic based activities aren't sexy, and physical/artistic activities are or can be. At my university all of the players I've met are at least alright(lowest being 1500 I think) and at least presentable.
Chocolate, from what I've read of your posts you may not fit in a frat that well, but it's definitely worth thinking about. Just make sure it's worth the investment it requires and you can't go wrong.
I've discovered in the past month or so that I do enjoy getting crazy, drinking, going to parties, etc. I'm not very uptight any more. I never really gave it a shot earlier because I was scared, didn't have any good friends that were into that kind of thing, and thought it just wasn't for me.
But yeah, cost benefit analysis is ongoing. I won't really know what to do for sure until I'm at the university, but right now I'm leaning towards yes, provided that I fit in with the frat in question. I really just want to know if dating is considered acceptable in most stereotypical frats (this isn't a very dudebro university though).
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United States44439 Posts
There are lower-key frats and academic frats which aren't strictly part of the Panhellenic system that you can find - go to Greek Week and check out your options.
If you're not into casual hook-ups and find yourself in a frat that has an unspoken (p sure it's against Panhellenic code of conduct) quota or some shit, you've found yourself in the wrong frat.  It's worth asking about privately when/if you get buddied up with a brother if it's a concern for you. Your frat should align with your own values.
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So I posted earlier about having a girl over to watch a movie, which ended in an epic friendzone because I didn't do anything physically. So I had to make some drastic changes to how I approached women and asked a girl out to some drinks. We sit on a bench in an isolated area on top of a school building, drinking wine and looking at stars nd what not ( I was already good friends with this girl so she wasn't scared). I was basically like oh god, its happening again.. If I don't do anything we are going to have a repeat of the epic friendzone. So I put my arm around her, nd then things became super comfortable. Held hands, kissed, moved around and came back to my place and watched some GoT and then gg'd (sex). what the fuck all it took was touching her lol.
tl;dr talk means nothing, touch
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Netherlands6192 Posts
Dating is hard T_T
Also gratz biology]major, people do respond better to action over talk. Touch means something, words are air.
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EPT
