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Okay I'll stop there, I think Velr is right about the fact that it must be a very cultural thing.
xM(Z, just know, for the record, that I personally never cheated on someone, as I consider it contrary to my personal values. I do, however, understand that my personal values are strictly personal and not shared by everyone.
And yes, you have to accept that people in a relationship are (most of the time) first and foremost in this relationship for themselves and only for themselves, they seek profit (take "profit" with a wide scope here, it can be pleasure - of any kind - as well as purely material profit) for them. Which doesn't mean they can't be in the relationship also for the other part(s) - it's just not the priority.
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On December 10 2015 05:29 OtherWorld wrote:
Okay I'll stop there, I think Velr is right about the fact that it must be a very cultural thing.
xM(Z, just know, for the record, that I personally never cheated on someone, as I consider it contrary to my personal values. I do, however, understand that my personal values are strictly personal and not shared by everyone.
And yes, you have to accept that people in a relationship are (most of the time) first and foremost in this relationship for themselves and only for themselves, they seek profit (take "profit" with a wide scope here, it can be pleasure - of any kind - as well as purely material profit) for them. Which doesn't mean they can't be in the relationship also for the other part(s) - it's just not the priority.
FYI
This is only true outside of marriage. When you don't have legally binding and punishable rules that are federally and state mandated. This is also only true under the assumption of no children.
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On December 10 2015 06:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2015 05:29 OtherWorld wrote:
Okay I'll stop there, I think Velr is right about the fact that it must be a very cultural thing.
xM(Z, just know, for the record, that I personally never cheated on someone, as I consider it contrary to my personal values. I do, however, understand that my personal values are strictly personal and not shared by everyone.
And yes, you have to accept that people in a relationship are (most of the time) first and foremost in this relationship for themselves and only for themselves, they seek profit (take "profit" with a wide scope here, it can be pleasure - of any kind - as well as purely material profit) for them. Which doesn't mean they can't be in the relationship also for the other part(s) - it's just not the priority. FYI This is only true outside of marriage. When you don't have legally binding and punishable rules that are federally and state mandated. This is also only true under the assumption of no children.
I was mainly talking about social/societal (not sure which word is correct here) interactions, independantly of laws. But that is true that the legal aspect should not be ignored.
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On December 09 2015 22:13 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2015 21:43 Cascade wrote:On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
what is worse?:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner)
- sexual cheating (screwing someone else when in a monogamous relationship; includes all bases)
- does the answer to that depends on ones personality or on ones inability to understands what the other option fully entails?. It really depends I think. It is easy to Come up with situations for both cases that wouldn't be a big deal for some couples, and situations that would be despicable deal breakers. What does it depend on? Well, culture of course. The level of trust and commitment within the couple. The circumstances and severity of the cheating. And what do you mean with "worse"? Most ethically unjustified for me, or some consensus group of people? That'd be highly subjective of course. To be able to find an objective answer to this kind of questions, I like to reformulate these moral questions in terms of actual measurables not depending on ethics. In this case, you could ask which type of cheating is most likely to break up the couple (with a year if you want)?And to answer that question, you'd have to imagine cases where only one type appear. I imagine most emotional cheating leads to sexual as well most often for example. Maybe not always easy to tell which one was first. I mean... In practice it's often not easy to tell if something counts as emotional cheating or not, and many people would disagree on a lot of cases. In the end I am not even sure if it is really meaningful to separate the two. Both involve violation of the trust in the monogamy as you present it. well at this point i'm thinking the questions were to personal so people will just dance around instead of giving actual answers. basically, you're not wrong when you try to explain some things or fit some patterns but that's just not an answer for me/to me. for the bolded part: you're dancing there. there's a clear cut distinction in both those matters and is based on the level of guilt/shame the perpetrator feels. you can then argue that such guilt is subjective and somewhat culture/personality based but don't confuse that with statements like - there are no clear breaking points, it's all a haze etcetc. there are clear cut lines that are crossed knowingly or knowingly shifting the blame on someone/something else (alcohol, drugs, or whatever).
In happy to give you my opinion, but then you need to be way more specific with the question. As it is, the original question covers so many different situations that most peoples answers are indeed "depends". Tell me exactly what was/wasn't done, and what the relationship is like, and I'll give you my personal judgement.  Not sure how that will help you, but if that is what you want...
And "amount of shame felt" is another somewhat objective measure, so I think that is already a much more meaningful formulation of the question. Answer is still "depends" of course, without more details. In this particular formulation, it will also depend on how much of a sociopath the cheater is.
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Canada11355 Posts
What is the best way to get rid of hunger pangs while trying not to eat as much? I have easy access to candy all day and would like all the help my willpower can get. I already drink a lot of water and that has been the only advice I've gotten so far
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Have you tried eating less but spread out? So like, smallish meals with small snacks in between + the water tip?
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On December 10 2015 09:43 Fecalfeast wrote:
What is the best way to get rid of hunger pangs while trying not to eat as much? I have easy access to candy all day and would like all the help my willpower can get. I already drink a lot of water and that has been the only advice I've gotten so far
Stuff like nuts, or anything high in protein/fiber help stave off hunger.
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Canada11355 Posts
Thanks guys I will try spreading out my meals into smaller snacks with an emergency bag of unsalted peanuts in case I get munchies.
Followup question: Why is this ginseng tea making me pass so much gas? It can't be the tea, right?
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On December 10 2015 09:43 Fecalfeast wrote:
What is the best way to get rid of hunger pangs while trying not to eat as much? I have easy access to candy all day and would like all the help my willpower can get. I already drink a lot of water and that has been the only advice I've gotten so far
Water, apples, nuts, low cal munchies. A little at a time to hold you over.
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On December 10 2015 10:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2015 09:43 Fecalfeast wrote:
What is the best way to get rid of hunger pangs while trying not to eat as much? I have easy access to candy all day and would like all the help my willpower can get. I already drink a lot of water and that has been the only advice I've gotten so far Water, apples, nuts, low cal munchies. A little at a time to hold you over.
This. Especially apples and nuts.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
eat lots of simple sugar i heard that works
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On December 10 2015 07:22 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2015 22:13 xM(Z wrote:On December 09 2015 21:43 Cascade wrote:On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
what is worse?:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner)
- sexual cheating (screwing someone else when in a monogamous relationship; includes all bases)
- does the answer to that depends on ones personality or on ones inability to understands what the other option fully entails?. It really depends I think. It is easy to Come up with situations for both cases that wouldn't be a big deal for some couples, and situations that would be despicable deal breakers. What does it depend on? Well, culture of course. The level of trust and commitment within the couple. The circumstances and severity of the cheating. And what do you mean with "worse"? Most ethically unjustified for me, or some consensus group of people? That'd be highly subjective of course. To be able to find an objective answer to this kind of questions, I like to reformulate these moral questions in terms of actual measurables not depending on ethics. In this case, you could ask which type of cheating is most likely to break up the couple (with a year if you want)?And to answer that question, you'd have to imagine cases where only one type appear. I imagine most emotional cheating leads to sexual as well most often for example. Maybe not always easy to tell which one was first. I mean... In practice it's often not easy to tell if something counts as emotional cheating or not, and many people would disagree on a lot of cases. In the end I am not even sure if it is really meaningful to separate the two. Both involve violation of the trust in the monogamy as you present it. well at this point i'm thinking the questions were to personal so people will just dance around instead of giving actual answers. basically, you're not wrong when you try to explain some things or fit some patterns but that's just not an answer for me/to me. for the bolded part: you're dancing there. there's a clear cut distinction in both those matters and is based on the level of guilt/shame the perpetrator feels. you can then argue that such guilt is subjective and somewhat culture/personality based but don't confuse that with statements like - there are no clear breaking points, it's all a haze etcetc. there are clear cut lines that are crossed knowingly or knowingly shifting the blame on someone/something else (alcohol, drugs, or whatever). In happy to give you my opinion, but then you need to be way more specific with the question. As it is, the original question covers so many different situations that most peoples answers are indeed "depends". Tell me exactly what was/wasn't done, and what the relationship is like, and I'll give you my personal judgement. Not sure how that will help you, but if that is what you want... And "amount of shame felt" is another somewhat objective measure, so I think that is already a much more meaningful formulation of the question. Answer is still "depends" of course, without more details. In this particular formulation, it will also depend on how much of a sociopath the cheater is.
i don't need to be more specific, look at this from DarkPlasmaBall:As far as sexual vs. emotional cheating is concerned, I'd personally have a harder time dealing with sexual cheating instead of emotional cheating, but it's different for everyone (and for some people, they don't even consider such a thing as emotional cheating). that's an actual answer; you're just deflecting.
@DarkPlasmaBall - well since you were the only one giving an answer i'll just tell you that from what i read, those fearing sexual cheating will tend to cheat emotionally and vice-versa(given the chance+reason); also, introverts are more likely to be poached from their partners which kinda makes sense in a way).
kudos.
@OtherWorld - you should check yourself for sociopathic(?) and/or psychopathic tendencies; solve your daddy/mommy issues. also, move to US.
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On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner)
What the fuck is this? Do you guys seriously consider it a norm that people in monogamous relationships should only share their emotions or feel an emotional connection with their significant others? Literally nothing on that list is remotely problematic; it's all exactly the stuff that friendship is for. I would never expect someone I was dating to refrain from continuing to share that stuff with their friends. If I discovered that someone I was dating expected me to do so, I would immediately dump them on the basis that they are obviously a jealous, controlling psycho.
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On December 10 2015 17:38 ASoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner) What the fuck is this? Do you guys seriously consider it a norm that people in monogamous relationships should only share their emotions or feel an emotional connection with their significant others? Literally nothing on that list is remotely problematic; it's all exactly the stuff that friendship is for. I would never expect someone I was dating to refrain from continuing to share that stuff with their friends. If I discovered that someone I was dating expected me to do so, I would immediately dump them on the basis that they are obviously a jealous, controlling psycho.
I think what makes it cheating is the secluded/hiding-it part, which I can understand as that would mean it likely stemmed from communication problems within the relationship and could be seen as deceitful.
Though I agree with you really, if you expect your significant other to be open only to you then you're not ready to be in a relationship, lol.
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On December 10 2015 17:42 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2015 17:38 ASoo wrote:On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner) What the fuck is this? Do you guys seriously consider it a norm that people in monogamous relationships should only share their emotions or feel an emotional connection with their significant others? Literally nothing on that list is remotely problematic; it's all exactly the stuff that friendship is for. I would never expect someone I was dating to refrain from continuing to share that stuff with their friends. If I discovered that someone I was dating expected me to do so, I would immediately dump them on the basis that they are obviously a jealous, controlling psycho. I think what makes it cheating is the secluded/hiding-it part, which I can understand as that would mean it likely stemmed from communication problems within the relationship and could be seen as deceitful. Though I agree with you really, if you expect your significant other to be open only to you then you're not ready to be in a relationship, lol.
I mean...I'll agree that if I'm, like, actually lying to my S.O. about how close I am with one of my friends, then that's indicative that there's a problem somewhere.
But the things xM(Z's description of "emotional cheating" said were:- "secluded" - Not a problem, people in relationships are allowed to interact with their other friends one-on-one, and they're allowed to share emotions/secrets/laughs/etc. while doing so.
- "sheltered" - Not sure what this means...not outside?
- "personalized" - When I share my emotions with my friends, I usually do so in a personalized manner...?
- "intimate" - If this means "emotionally intimate," then it doesn't tell us anything new; we're already talking about sharing emotions/secrets/laughs/etc. with your friends, which is an inherently emotionally intimate activity. If this means "physically intimate," then we're not talking about "emotional cheating" anymore.
To me, that all seems more like...not cheating?
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I don't think he phrased it particularly articulately, but I'm more leaning on an assumption that the underlying issue of deceit coupled with intimacy are the primary factors involved with cheating, and I think thats what hes getting at? I think secluded/sheltered = deceit and personalized/intimate = intimate.
Definitely not very well articulated though.
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On December 10 2015 18:19 ASoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2015 17:42 Zambrah wrote:On December 10 2015 17:38 ASoo wrote:On December 09 2015 18:38 xM(Z wrote:
- emotional cheating (sharing secrets, emotions, hopes, dreams and aspirations, jokes and laughs with someone else(other than our current half), in a somewhat secluded/sheltered/personalized/intimate manner) What the fuck is this? Do you guys seriously consider it a norm that people in monogamous relationships should only share their emotions or feel an emotional connection with their significant others? Literally nothing on that list is remotely problematic; it's all exactly the stuff that friendship is for. I would never expect someone I was dating to refrain from continuing to share that stuff with their friends. If I discovered that someone I was dating expected me to do so, I would immediately dump them on the basis that they are obviously a jealous, controlling psycho. I think what makes it cheating is the secluded/hiding-it part, which I can understand as that would mean it likely stemmed from communication problems within the relationship and could be seen as deceitful. Though I agree with you really, if you expect your significant other to be open only to you then you're not ready to be in a relationship, lol. I mean...I'll agree that if I'm, like, actually lying to my S.O. about how close I am with one of my friends, then that's indicative that there's a problem somewhere. But the things xM(Z's description of "emotional cheating" said were: - "secluded" - Not a problem, people in relationships are allowed to interact with their other friends one-on-one, and they're allowed to share emotions/secrets/laughs/etc. while doing so.
- "sheltered" - Not sure what this means...not outside?
- "personalized" - When I share my emotions with my friends, I usually do so in a personalized manner...?
- "intimate" - If this means "emotionally intimate," then it doesn't tell us anything new; we're already talking about sharing emotions/secrets/laughs/etc. with your friends, which is an inherently emotionally intimate activity. If this means "physically intimate," then we're not talking about "emotional cheating" anymore.
To me, that all seems more like...not cheating?
So this is typically something that depends on the couple. Some people are very extrovert and happily shares their every emotion with everyone that happens to be close by, whether they want to hear it or not. For them it is close to impossible to emotionally cheat I'd say, as sharing emotions is such a natural way of interacting with people. Others are very introvert, and struggle to share their emotions with anyone, even very close friends. If a strong introvert start sharing emotions with someone of the opposite sex, it is likely cause for worry for the partner.
But apparently circumstances are irrelevant as all relationships and people are identical, and I am only "deflecting" so feel free to ignore me. 
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@ASoo (ps: omitting is lying too)
not my fault. your language is bad at articulating stuff because i feel i need to create the context of what i'm talking about else no one gets shit, so i'm using multiple words trying to get a single meaning across(thing i can do in my native language in 1 or 2 words and it'll come out better).
- i wasn't giving a (for those thinking emo-cheating is not even a thing, add a pseudo-)-scientific definition of it but merely trying to summarize some of the main points from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_affair + Show Spoiler +
This type of affair is often characterized by:
Inappropriate emotional intimacy. The partner being unfaithful may spend inappropriate or excessive time with someone of the opposite or same gender (time not shared with the other partner). He or she may confide more in their new “friend” than in their partner and may share more intimate emotional feelings and secrets with their new partner than with their existing spouse. Any time that an individual invests more emotionally into a relationship with someone besides their partner the existing partnership may suffer.
Deception and secrecy. Those involved may not tell their partners about the amount of time they spend with each other. An individual involved in this type of affair may, for example, tell his or her spouse that they are doing other activities when they are really meeting with someone else. Or the unfaithful spouse may exclude any mention of the other person while discussing the day’s activities to conceal the rendezvous. Even if no physical intimacy occurs, the deception shows that those involved believe they are doing something wrong that undermines the existing relationship. In other words, if there was really no harm in meeting with a friend, both parties would feel comfortable telling their partners the truth about where they are meeting and what they are discussing.
Increased fighting. When a person becomes emotionally involved with a third party, they will almost without fail begin to discount their primary partner, if not view the new person as all good and their committed partner as all bad.[citation needed] This person may blame their interest in the third party on their committed partner, which will lead to increased fighting and strain on the relationship.
Sexual and emotional chemistry. Sexual and emotional chemistry can present itself based on a physical attraction one might feel for another person. In addition, it can also be related to an increase in dopamine, a hormone that produces feelings of pleasure, and norepinephrine, which is similar to adrenaline and causes an increase in excitement. This may or may not lead to physical intimacy, however, if nurtured it may present itself. The time between the first meeting and a first kiss can often be very lengthy, but the time between the first kiss and sexual intercourse may be very short. In most of these affairs, however, an unspoken attraction exists. A partner may spend extra time getting ready before seeing this "friend" or may buy new clothing or change their appearance to seem attractive to them. They may obsess anticipating phone calls, emails or text messages and there may be a decrease or stop in sexual activity with their spouse.
Denial. Denial of the attraction and limerance felt may be exhibited by the cheating partner, but a similar denial and minimisation may also be defensively deployed by the excluded partner as well, to avoid confrontation.
i will say though, that being a little ambiguous, weeds out the cheaters pretty fast.
Edit: @Cascade, can't be more blunt than this: you are in a couple or you've been in couples(i'm guessing), you know yourself(somewhat) so just tell what's worse for you. if you haven't and you don't, just don't reply. i'm not trying to exclude you here, but the reality is that you have nothing to offer.
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On December 10 2015 17:27 xM(Z wrote:i don't need to be more specific, look at this from DarkPlasmaBall: Show nested quote +As far as sexual vs. emotional cheating is concerned, I'd personally have a harder time dealing with sexual cheating instead of emotional cheating, but it's different for everyone (and for some people, they don't even consider such a thing as emotional cheating). that's an actual answer; you're just deflecting. @DarkPlasmaBall - well since you were the only one giving an answer i'll just tell you that from what i read, those fearing sexual cheating will tend to cheat emotionally and vice-versa(given the chance+reason); also, introverts are more likely to be poached from their partners which kinda makes sense in a way). kudos.
Out of curiosity, why do you think that is? Why is a person more likely to cheat emotionally when fearing physical cheating, and vice-versa? Is it a sort of attempt at balancing out the cheating? Because I would think that a person would be more likely to reciprocate with the same kind of cheating (e.g., "I think she's fooling around physically with a guy behind my back, so I'm going to do the same.).
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If you really share what is important to you with your other half, the you should know what (s)he thinks about it, and find a way to deal with it.
That's how we sorted it out. The idea is just to share anything, no matter what, and if we feel some situation could be 'strange'/ 'interpreted as cheating-like'/ hurting /..., we go and share before hand, just in case.
In this regard, we treat what you described as emotional cheating and physical/sexual cheating the exact same way, as we kinda agree that both can be source of a break-up because it could either mean that one is not providing what the other needs (which mainly defines a couple for us), and/or that the latter is not willing to share and be open enough.
Anyway, 'Cheating' in a relationship, as everywhere else, just means 'secretly not following the rules'. So you just have to define the said rules as explicitly as possible so you can easily say 'this is cheating, this is not'.
So I guess the question you ask is 'how you, personally, put the limits of what is acceptable in a couple in regard of your attitude with a third party, especially physically versus emotionally?', isn't it?
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EPT
