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Things like modafinil are quite common at my uni since it allows people to stay up forever and study with few side effects. I was seriously considering it at one point but I read something about it being recently shown that in long time (2+ years) users there is a significant decrease in your ability to learn from your mistakes.
Seemed like a bad deal.
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On February 19 2011 00:28 Ultramus wrote:
MLGs are open tourneys, you don't have to be on a team >.>
It's a moot point, because you'd have to be a professional to compete on that level anyway. No casual player would ever win an MLG tournament.
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On February 19 2011 00:22 NoobSkills wrote:
All medications have their long term affects.
In the end though it is their choice I don't see why any governing body should rule over this. Their risk their reward and I doubt it is that much of an edge.
Thats a stupid attitude, why should anyone have a biochemical edge over ME because they choose too RISK there BRAIN. <--------------- omg read that sentence again.
There BRAIN!? Fucking hell this is a game were talking about! A good game but a game none the less. Why risk a prize of what 5,000 euros or whatever for your future mind.
on a side note. You think SC2 is hard too control! Jesus, Starcraft brood war was created for medical science to INVENT enchancers!
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On February 18 2011 22:53 mcbrite wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 22:50 Bleak wrote:
It could be a placebo. I wouldn't believe it until testing takes place in a double blind experiment. Even the military uses it for fighter pilots and even NASA for Astronauts, so I highly doubt that...
hitler even prescribed crystal meth to the pilots. and before any mod wants to ban me... it's TRUE 
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On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community.
I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it.
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On February 19 2011 00:39 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 22:53 mcbrite wrote:On February 18 2011 22:50 Bleak wrote:
It could be a placebo. I wouldn't believe it until testing takes place in a double blind experiment. Even the military uses it for fighter pilots and even NASA for Astronauts, so I highly doubt that... hitler even prescribed crystal meth to the pilots. and before any mod wants to ban me... it's TRUE
MYTH!
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On February 19 2011 00:42 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 00:39 beg wrote:On February 18 2011 22:53 mcbrite wrote:On February 18 2011 22:50 Bleak wrote:
It could be a placebo. I wouldn't believe it until testing takes place in a double blind experiment. Even the military uses it for fighter pilots and even NASA for Astronauts, so I highly doubt that... hitler even prescribed crystal meth to the pilots. and before any mod wants to ban me... it's TRUE MYTH!
nope it's true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine ...see "world war II".
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On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it.
From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though.
That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it.
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hmm, I stand corrected. Beg 
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Modafinil increases dopamine activity consistent with attention and awareness. It doesn't interfere with one's ability to sleep and doesn't seem to give one any of the sides effects of the amphetamine-analogs. It's basically a wonder drug.
I say all this to lead up to the following: It allows you to operate at 100% for up to 14 hours without any downsides (except A LOT OF THOUGHTS). Every EMT I knew who could get his hands on it was taking it before every shift, every time for a reason. You don't get mentally exhausted, you don't get blocked, you don't lose that edge we all have when we are really fresh and feeling good.
It's the steroids of intellectual sports (chess, SC, etc).
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Also for anyone curious I do believe that the prodrug of modafinil, adrafinil, is unregulated in the US and can be purchased on the net without an Rx. And at a considerably cheaper price than the $500+ 30 tablets of modafinil cost.
I went the generic route and payed like 75 Euros for 60 of the 200mg variety... That's just over 50 Cent for a dose, so not that high...
Also people talk about prescriptions and so on: If you wanted to cheat that badly it's very easy to order them via the internet without any prescriptions what so ever. Just heard an hour long radio program on it yesterday...
I don't really agree with drug tests in eSports. No need to drag that drama and the cost and inconvenience into eSports as well...
I'm happy to see some very good points raised, like how mechanics isn't the limiting factor for pros where it IS with noobs like me... Didn't even think of that... Maybe a drug like Ritalin would be more applicable to a pro at that level...
Also very interesting to see how many people have heard, or are even using Modafinil here. That confirms all I read about sales and use of Modafinil rising WAY beyond Narcoleptic Disorders into more of a Mainstream, even Lifestyle drug status. Almost in a similar way that Viagra did years ago. Very interesting to me!
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have you ever smoked?
weed helps me get in my zone
but i wouldn't say its the same for everyone
its just something about videogames
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On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test
Theres a chart here, with times of detection.
Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here,
were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse.
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On February 19 2011 01:01 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_testTheres a chart here, with times of detection. Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here, were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse.
The chart you linked says that it can detect (most) drugs up to 90 days after usage. If you read in that same article about hair testing, they repeat the sentiment that it's used for a period of 30-90 days. Also, when you go to order one (http://www.testcountry.com/categories.html?cat=123), and you look at the pros/cons section, they specifically state "Does not detect very recent drug use (of up to 1.5 weeks)", which was my point. You also have to wait for results, as you send it to a lab to get the test done. Unless, of course, I am mistaken, this means that you could indeed pop some drugs right before your match and get off scot-free, unless the league takes a habit of doing drug tests 30-90 days afterwards.
On February 19 2011 01:00 malady wrote:
have you ever smoked?
weed helps me get in my zone
but i wouldn't say its the same for everyone
its just something about videogames
I used to hang out at a LAN café in my hometown, where at least 50% of the people who went there did smoke weed. I'd probably say that most of them played worse - there was a couple who actually got really good, but their decision making skills seemed to get weird. They would start doing illogical things. But it's probably different for everyone.
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On February 19 2011 01:12 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 01:01 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_testTheres a chart here, with times of detection. Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here, were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse. The chart you linked says that it can detect (most) drugs up to 90 days after usage. If you read in that same article about hair testing, they repeat the sentiment that it's used for a period of 30-90 days. Also, when you go to order one (http://www.testcountry.com/categories.html?cat=123), and you look at the pros/cons section, they specifically state "Does not detect very recent drug use (of up to 1.5 weeks)", which was my point. You also have to wait for results, as you send it to a lab to get the test done. Unless, of course, I am mistaken, this means that you could indeed pop some drugs right before your match and get off scot-free, unless the league takes a habit of doing drug tests 30-90 days afterwards.
Thats all true. THATS why there needs too be (in the pro circuit) random drug test at regular intervals through-out tournaments and league to STOP people from using ENHANCERS (not weed or herion or whatever) but enhancer tests ONLY! what ypu do in our own recreation is up too you. But if you use a drug and know its for your benefit too play better (or even if its in your head), it still needs too be policed.
If what you say is true and i agree then were on the same page when it comes too testing. but it needs too be police if it is a regular thing right now. otherwise it will take over the pro-circuit and any future in e-sports as a competitive industry is doomed.
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Since modafinil is such a relatively new drug its effects are still being studied extensively.
I found the article I was talking about earlier (About long term use leading to decrease in learning ability)
+ Show Spoiler +
Nothing conclusive and the study involved rats and not people but still enough for me to stay away from it for a few more years. I'd prefer my brain intact thank you very much.
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Germany2269 Posts
On February 19 2011 01:21 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 01:12 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 01:01 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:
[quote]
I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_testTheres a chart here, with times of detection. Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here, were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse. The chart you linked says that it can detect (most) drugs up to 90 days after usage. If you read in that same article about hair testing, they repeat the sentiment that it's used for a period of 30-90 days. Also, when you go to order one (http://www.testcountry.com/categories.html?cat=123), and you look at the pros/cons section, they specifically state "Does not detect very recent drug use (of up to 1.5 weeks)", which was my point. You also have to wait for results, as you send it to a lab to get the test done. Unless, of course, I am mistaken, this means that you could indeed pop some drugs right before your match and get off scot-free, unless the league takes a habit of doing drug tests 30-90 days afterwards. Thats all true. THATS why there needs too be (in the pro circuit) random drug test at regular intervals through-out tournaments and league to STOP people from using ENHANCERS (not weed or herion or whatever) but enhancer tests ONLY! what ypu do in our own recreation is up too you. But if you use a drug and know its for your benefit too play better (or even if its in your head), it still needs too be policed. If what you say is true and i agree then were on the same page when it comes too testing. but it needs too be police if it is a regular thing right now. otherwise it will take over the pro-circuit and any future in e-sports as a competitive industry is doomed.
Your mix of random bolding, ALLCAPS, underlining and general panic makes for a very hard to read post.
Rarely has a sport has been permanently damaged by substance abuse. Not even cycling, where the Tour de France has been overshadowed by doping scandals for years - but the athletes continue driving, the sponsors continue paying and the customers continue watching.
If there'll ever be a progamer proven to play under the influence of something to enhance his performance (and I'm pretty sure some already are doing so, and even if it's just something to help with the stage fright), there'll be a scandal, player(s) and manager(s) will be fired etc, but Esports as a whole won't suffer. It hasn't after matchfixing and it won't with doping. If anything, it'll prove that gaming has become as mainstream as "regular" sports.
Doping should forbidden like everywhere else, of course, but that doesn't mean it won't happen or that it'll ruin Esports when it's discovered that someone did it.
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On February 19 2011 01:21 Cpt.beefy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 01:12 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 01:01 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:
[quote]
I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2. People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_testTheres a chart here, with times of detection. Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here, were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse. The chart you linked says that it can detect (most) drugs up to 90 days after usage. If you read in that same article about hair testing, they repeat the sentiment that it's used for a period of 30-90 days. Also, when you go to order one (http://www.testcountry.com/categories.html?cat=123), and you look at the pros/cons section, they specifically state "Does not detect very recent drug use (of up to 1.5 weeks)", which was my point. You also have to wait for results, as you send it to a lab to get the test done. Unless, of course, I am mistaken, this means that you could indeed pop some drugs right before your match and get off scot-free, unless the league takes a habit of doing drug tests 30-90 days afterwards. Thats all true. THATS why there needs too be (in the pro circuit) random drug test at regular intervals through-out tournaments and league to STOP people from using ENHANCERS (not weed or herion or whatever) but enhancer tests ONLY! what ypu do in our own recreation is up too you. But if you use a drug and know its for your benefit too play better (or even if its in your head), it still needs too be policed. If what you say is true and i agree then were on the same page when it comes too testing. but it needs too be police if it is a regular thing right now. otherwise it will take over the pro-circuit and any future in e-sports as a competitive industry is doomed.
Well, yes, people should be doing tests at random intervals. I don't think it'll cause doom and annihilation on the e-sports industry, though, since these kinds of things plague all levels of competitive sports. Weight lifting, running, football, handegg, baseball, etc...; all of them have drug scandals to speak of, and yet, they keep on going, you know? Some do random interval testing (handegg), while some only do it on a case by case basis, where an accusation is made (I believe cycling is run this way, but I could be wrong).
All in all, though, I don't think it's that big of a deal, since drugs that increase your mental capacity typically are found to have really bad long term effects, like physical/emotional reliance on the drug, amongst other things. Those kinds of things do shorten prospective careers, and when you're a pro gamer, I think that the only types of jobs you're going to get after that career are probably white collar jobs, so most pros will not want to do that for an extra boost that'll last them a couple of years.
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On February 19 2011 01:43 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 01:21 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 01:12 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 01:01 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:47 goiflin wrote:On February 19 2011 00:41 Cpt.beefy wrote:On February 19 2011 00:29 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:19 Stropheum wrote:On February 19 2011 00:16 Fateless wrote:On February 19 2011 00:04 RoosterSamurai wrote:
[quote]
People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company. yeah, but when they chose this profession there were no drug tests involved, they were just playing a game they enjoyed for fun. I don't like the idea that a player who might enjoy smoking marijuana in his free time would be DQ'd by a drug test when drugs don't even help you in this game. I know we all love to compare E-sports to Physical sports, but they are quite different. In an MMA fight or boxing match, if one of the competitors were taking something like Methamphetamine, there is a real risk of one of the competitors dying, and when the physical safety of the competitors is concerned, it makes sense to test for everything possible. What about bikers and runners doing blood doping/ taking epo to help stabilize their heart rate so they can keep going for ridiculous lengths? This doesn't cause risk to anybody but the person themselves, yet in competitive races, they test. This is what we're talking about here, keeping things fair, and having the competition being about who worked the hardest to get where they're at, not who took the best drugs. Also I love the fact that any sort of tournament would do a drug test on its competitors. If one person gets away with it, they'll tell their friends and they'll tell their own friends and more and more people will start putting themselves in harms way because the tournaments don't screen for people like that. I 100% agree with drug screening at any sort of tournament, "real" sport or not. The problem is that in this case, the Tests are not effective. You might not know it, but it is very very easy to cheat a drug test. This means that the cheaters will have no problem continuing to cheat, and honest players who might use harmless drugs to relax will be punished. So for example, take a seriously powerful stimulant like Methamphetamine, which is undetectable in urine after 72 hours. Marijuana, which is harmless and will if anything make it more difficult to play SC2, is detectable for up to 2 weeks. So I just dose up right before I begin playing and nobody will know any different. But If I smoked a joint with my friends last weekend I will be DQ'd and shamed by the community. I disagree, Hair follicle tests are very good at detecting drugs. hours after you dosed it. From what I've read, not only can you fool hair tests through the use of cosmetics, but you can also only accurately detect drug usage in the span of 30-90 days, depending on how fast/slow the persons hair grows. I could be mistaken, though. That would also still produce issues for people who use marjiuana recreationally, since you'd detect it in their hair up to three months after they've used it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_testTheres a chart here, with times of detection. Just too be clear though were NOT talking about Marjiuana usage here, were discussing ENHANCERs too artificially improve game-playing. I don't see a reason too disqualify a player for using marijuana. At anytime. Like you said it would make you play worse. The chart you linked says that it can detect (most) drugs up to 90 days after usage. If you read in that same article about hair testing, they repeat the sentiment that it's used for a period of 30-90 days. Also, when you go to order one (http://www.testcountry.com/categories.html?cat=123), and you look at the pros/cons section, they specifically state "Does not detect very recent drug use (of up to 1.5 weeks)", which was my point. You also have to wait for results, as you send it to a lab to get the test done. Unless, of course, I am mistaken, this means that you could indeed pop some drugs right before your match and get off scot-free, unless the league takes a habit of doing drug tests 30-90 days afterwards. Thats all true. THATS why there needs too be (in the pro circuit) random drug test at regular intervals through-out tournaments and league to STOP people from using ENHANCERS (not weed or herion or whatever) but enhancer tests ONLY! what ypu do in our own recreation is up too you. But if you use a drug and know its for your benefit too play better (or even if its in your head), it still needs too be policed. If what you say is true and i agree then were on the same page when it comes too testing. but it needs too be police if it is a regular thing right now. otherwise it will take over the pro-circuit and any future in e-sports as a competitive industry is doomed. Your mix of random bolding, ALLCAPS, underlining and general panic makes for a very hard to read post. Rarely has a sport has been permanently damaged by substance abuse. Not even cycling, where the Tour de France has been overshadowed by doping scandals for years - but the athletes continue driving, the sponsors continue paying and the customers continue watching. If there'll ever be a progamer proven to play under the influence of something to enhance his performance (and I'm pretty sure some already are doing so, and even if it's just something to help with the stage fright), there'll be a scandal, player(s) and manager(s) will be fired etc, but Esports as a whole won't suffer. It hasn't after matchfixing and it won't with doping. If anything, it'll prove that gaming has become as mainstream as "regular" sports. Doping should forbidden like everywhere else, of course, but that doesn't mean it won't happen or that it'll ruin Esports when it's discovered that someone did it.
Ok dude, so you agree.
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I was prescribed Adderall for ADD (which falls under OP's "ritalin and co"). I haven't noticed a significant improvement in my gaming--though I've been gaming less, because gaming was a distraction from my studies. Then again, people with ADD/ADHD tend to hyperfocus on some specific activities, so perhaps my gaming was already at its natural level. I've noticed a significant improvement in quality of life, and I believe that people with apparent, diagnosable disorders are at a disadvantage. Doping regulation for e-sports would require tight control over prescription and availability, which means it's fubar just like every other sport.
Adderall is way too easy to get prescribed (it's basically a personality test), and a significant number of law and med school students take them to gain an advantage. The suppressed appetite really hurts me (I'm 6'0 and 130 pounds), and the sleep loss is noticeable. The extended release capsules last about 5 hours, so if e-sports were to become srs bsns, it wouldn't be hard to detect before a match.
In theory, brain plasticity allows those on focus drugs to widen the neural pathways involved in the affected activities over the course of several years, eventually eliminating the need for medication. This is similar to Zen meditation experts producing significantly increased brain activity when focusing (i.e. medication isn't necessary to treat ADD, but it really helps).
In my opinion, it's just gonna be like every other sport: dopers, hackers, cheaters galore at low levels, league/tourney hosts required to pay for legitimacy at pro levels.
+ Show Spoiler +p.s. I also smoke weed occasionally, and in my experience it has the absolute opposite effects of adderall (improved appetite, extreme relaxation (makes sleep easier), wayward attention, and impaired short-term memory. I am godawful at video games when I'm high, but maybe it's just exacerbating my ADD. I never smoke weed within 5 hours of taking Adderall, I feel that they would just counteract each other while causing my system unnecessary stress.
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