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Hey guys!
I'm pretty surprised, that I haven't heard anything about pro gamers using medications to improve their play like basically all other athletes do all over the world.
For example: I recently got prescribed Modafinil and let me tell you:
I could feel a definite improvement in my first game... My apm was higher by default, I didn't forget overlords (like I normally do all day every day), remembered updates, creep spread and lava injects and felt like I had better unit control.
Now, if I as a complete noob instantly recognize massive improvements in my play, I could only imagine how much of an improvement a real pro gamer could get from this drug or maybe other drugs that work in similar ways like Ritalin and Co.
Given that Modafinil has very few side-effects, I'd have thought that pro-gamers would be popping these like gummibears?
(PS: Of course MY intake of Modafinil has nothing to do with gaming, but since it's half-time in the body is about 15 hours you'll definitely still be under it's influence once you start gaming in the afternoon.)
Poll: Is it ethical to use brain doping at a professional level in gaming?No, I don't agree with doping in pro-level gaming (191) 75% Yes, I see nothing wrong with using all options available to become the best player you can. (51) 20% Hmmm, can't make up my mind (12) 5% 254 total votes Your vote: Is it ethical to use brain doping at a professional level in gaming? (Vote): Yes, I see nothing wrong with using all options available to become the best player you can.
(Vote): No, I don't agree with doping in pro-level gaming
(Vote): Hmmm, can't make up my mind
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It could be a placebo. I wouldn't believe it until testing takes place in a double blind experiment.
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On February 18 2011 22:50 Bleak wrote:
It could be a placebo. I wouldn't believe it until testing takes place in a double blind experiment.
Even the military uses it for fighter pilots and even NASA for Astronauts, so I highly doubt that...
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Remember that nobody has determined Modafinil's long term effects. For all you know, using it on a daily basis to improve performance over the span of a pro-gaming career could end up giving you brain damage.
It's also already in the prohibited list of the World Anti-Doping Agency, so people know about it already.
Edit; to answer the question, no, I don't think it's ethical. Will it happen? Probably.
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The thing is your starting point is lover then that of healthy mind, as is that of astronauts and fighter pilots(due to the nature of their work habitat), so its not entirely conclusive how much it would help someone who doesnt have a medical need for it.
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I do not agree with doping (in the sense of taking drugs / medications) to boost your skills. On the other hand, it really depends on your lifestyle (what you eat, if you take vitamins, are you a smoker, do you drink alcohol often, etc.) if you can focus & concentrate for a long time. Many people are "buffed" by default, just by their normal lifestyle and the treatments they take to themselves on a daily basis.
But: Taking a medication right before you start playing competitively can be considered cheating, at least from my point of view.
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On February 18 2011 23:02 Sfydjklm wrote:
The thing is your starting point is lover then that of healthy mind, as is that of astronauts and fighter pilots(due to the nature of their work habitat), so its not entirely conclusive how much it would help someone who doesnt have a medical need for it.
From what I've read, anyone can use it to improve performance and concentration in a variety of fields, such as basketball, for one example. It does work on people who don't need it. Unless what I'm reading is wrong, of course.
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I have this as well and have never noticed any difference while taking it in regards to gaming or otherwise. It just makes me stay up and gives me dry mouth haha. Also IIRC it's cognitive effects don't scale very well; ie they have more of an effect on people who are already thinking very proficiently as opposed to those less intelligent. Due to the nature of sc2 I don't think it would have much effect on pros because they are already 100% focused and attentive when they play, but for someone not at that level I can see how it would increase their skill.
Though I'll agree modafinil is a crazy drug with how effective it is with little to no side-effects. I take it only as needed because I could see how someone could get easily addicted to this stuff. But really as far as doping goes normal amphetamine salts would be more effective and considerably cheaper.
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I voted "Yes, I see nothing wrong with using all options available to become the best player you can."
But that's because the way I see it, commercial use has always been the best fuel for improvements.
Instead of a ton of money going into research on how to hide and detect said substances, the money could've gone into research on what other uses it might have, what the side effects are, and if we could do something about the side effects.
And then there's some in my opinion hypocritical rules on what's regarded as doping. Coffe is considered doping in most olympic games, but loading up on carbs (pasta) isn't, and niether is alcohol (was watching mens high jump and a guy was drinking alcohol to calm down his nerves).
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The problem with using amphetamine-like drugs like Modafinil or Concerta/Ritalin is that after a while (this isn't gonna happen today or tomorrow but in 2 years time rather) you will not be able to play Starcraft without the "boost".
The coated pills you're using (sorry don't know the proper word) are supposed to prevent that (because you don't get a rush) but I have lots of friends who are using Ritalin who are not able to do anything "boring" without that sweet rush.
I really hate all these "magic pills without side effects" that doctors prescribe like they're tic-tacs but then 3 years later your life SUCKS. Lyrica is another one of those magic drugs doctors looove to prescribe because they are "not addictive" and has "no sideeffects"...
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On February 18 2011 23:17 0tso wrote:
The problem with using amphetamine-like drugs like Modafinil or Concerta/Ritalin is that after a while (this isn't gonna happen today or tomorrow but in 2 years time rather) you will not be able to play Starcraft without the "boost".
The coated pills you're using (sorry don't know the proper word) are supposed to prevent that (because you don't get a rush) but I have lots of friends who are using Ritalin who are not able to do anything "boring" without that sweet rush.
I really hate all these "magic pills without side effects" that doctors prescribe like they're tic-tacs but then 3 years later your life SUCKS. Lyrica is another one of those magic drugs doctors looove to prescribe because they are "not addictive" and has "no sideeffects"...
It's all under the illusion that any problem in life can be solved by a pill as opposed to hard work and dedication.
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I'm about to start this prescription also! I'm getting it because I work as a web developer and go to art school which means I have been chronically missing sleep for about 5 years now, and this is supposed to help my sleep at night because I will be more focused and get more done during the day.
@Ultramus: I'm just curious what level and APM you play at currently, do you find that it helps combat mental fatigue from longer games? Personally I think Modafinil is better then amphetamine because it doesn't raise your heart and wouldn't negatively affect your decision making while under pressure like Amphetamine would.
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As long as the drug doesn't harm you physically or mentally, but even then it would change many things in competitive gaming.
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Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again.
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Modafinil is the go-to drug for a whole list of illnesses- from MS to cocaine withdrawal. It's hard to imagine a doctor prescribing it to a young pro-gamer, and without a prescription you're out of luck. Unless you cross the line and start breaking laws, joining the company of notables like Savior and go.go. Keep it clean - let Stork win PvT, Skyhigh TvT and coin-toss for ZvZ. Like it's supposed to be.
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On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again.
Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.).
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On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.).
I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2.
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On February 18 2011 23:19 Fateless wrote:
I'm about to start this prescription also! I'm getting it because I work as a web developer and go to art school which means I have been chronically missing sleep for about 5 years now, and this is supposed to help my sleep at night because I will be more focused and get more done during the day.
@Ultramus: I'm just curious what level and APM you play at currently, do you find that it helps combat mental fatigue from longer games? Personally I think Modafinil is better then amphetamine because it doesn't raise your heart and wouldn't negatively affect your decision making while under pressure like Amphetamine would.
I normally average about 120ish APM, zerg player and I don't ladder very much. I am however a top tier FPS player and I noticed no difference when I was on it, but competitive FPS you reach a skill ceiling pretty quickly where the game limits you. The same applies to starcraft 2 really, it won't make your workers mine faster or make units build quicker, it can help with mechanics but for pros their mechanics aren't the limiting factor.
I could however see it used to get extra practice time, that's a definite concern.
Also for those wondering, modafinil isn't some miracle drug, it's not even indicated for ADHD, which is where most of the abuse with these meds comes from, MDs too readily prescribing, not that it is entirely there fault as people are quite demanding of physicians. It's indicated for Narcolepsy and Shift Work sleep disorder. It's related to amphetamines but doesn't increase your heartrate or give you the jitteriness like caffeine or ritalin/adderall would. It also will only(AFAIK) cause a functional addiction and not a physical one, if you stop taking it you won't all of a sudden be narcoleptic and it does not cause any euphoric sensation while on it either.
Debating the ethics of other drugs and their diversion/overprescription is a topic for another thread. Sadly retail I couldn't care less about when i see the issues that go on at the hospital level. However this is a thread about modafinil specifically.
Also for anyone curious I do believe that the prodrug of modafinil, adrafinil, is unregulated in the US and can be purchased on the net without an Rx. And at a considerably cheaper price than the $500+ 30 tablets of modafinil cost.
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On February 19 2011 00:00 Fateless wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 23:31 RoosterSamurai wrote:On February 18 2011 23:30 W2 wrote:
Of course it shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. However, it is quite hard to monitor/enforce at live events. I have seen some post-match interviews with pro-gamers whose pupils are dilated as f***. This does not automatically mean they are on drugs but I would venture a guess that it has happened before in the lifespan of e-sports and will happen again. Well, it isn't impossible to enforce. ML:G could start doing pre-tournament drug screenings (Which I heard that they will be implementing this next season.). I think that's a little excessive, and an invasion of the player's privacy. I think at this point SC2 tournaments are such a toss-up to begin with that this is totally unnecessary. I think that MLG should be allowed to drug test in a case-by-case basis, for example, if you saw one player start to get an excessive amount of upset tournament wins, but I don't see any reason to DT all of the players. Which would be very expensive and we would probably see a lot of good players turning out false positives or failing for things that don't actually make you better at SC2.
People that play in MLG are professional gamers, and as with most any profession, a drug test is to be expected. I don't really agree that it would be an invasion of a player's privacy. They chose this profession, and shouldn't really be treated any differently than an employee at any other company.
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People say little too no side effects but this and other stimulants/amphetaminal drugs have been linked to loss of appetite, lack of desire to sleep and ability too sleep, and these 2 combined can stunt growth.
just saying from experience and from research and speaking to my doctor.
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EPT
